[bubbletea 4 me]

Originally Posted by ZTUNER

Are you guys serious ? Why are you shitting on a guy for offering cheap parts. If you think they are junk buy elsewhere. Leave the guy alone. Just because a vendor has a german or american sounding name does not imply that the products they sell are made in that country. Heck even your precious 335i is made in freeking south africa.

Harry

+1

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by ZTUNER

You are from Australia right ? Do you really want people to focus on the human rights situation in Australia ? Look in your own house before you open your mouth.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...d-human-rights

Australia itself is a fairly racist country.

Harry

+100...I have read many articles recently about these abuses, Not saying it doesnt happen here in the US. But its just not the third world, if the developed nations cannot behave ..how do you expect change ?

[vbmw335]

AR ...Honestly man if you cannot compete ...just shut your shop and find something else to do...If you can compete...stay here and offer quality products and speak about the benefits of your products and stop ranting about other vendors.

Go and buy this book " world is flat" its a good read for people like you who live in a cave...and fail to realize that you live in a global world. Dont give us this save american worker BS....we all have imported cars in the first place and funnel money into the german economy for the most part.

I havent seen another vendor like you who is resorting to these shameless tactics...

If it wasnt for VK ...you wouldnt have dropped the prices...now come down to 300 bucks ..or you know what...

[lpphreakx06]

o snap

[cu_north]

"The World is Flat" is definitely a good read. Helped me understand that we should all be a bit more accommodating.

[AlpineG05]

Wow this thread is getting crazy

[ar design]

Originally Posted by vbmw335

AR ...Honestly man if you cannot compete ...just shut your shop and find something else to do...If you can compete...stay here and offer quality products and speak about the benefits of your products and stop ranting about other vendors.

Go and buy this book " world is flat" its a good read for people like you who live in a cave...and fail to realize that you live in a global world. Dont give us this save american worker BS....we all have imported cars in the first place and funnel money into the german economy for the most part.

I havent seen another vendor like you who is resorting to these shameless tactics...

If it wasnt for VK ...you wouldnt have dropped the prices...now come down to 300 bucks ..or you know what...

LOL, we always have been $699. Our MSRP has never changed.

If you consider calling someone out on 100% bogus claims being "shameless", I dont know what to tell you. Guess we will have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

[BMdblU]

All this 'mine is better then yours' is so childish, and quite pathetic if you ask me. AR, you have to have a quote in your sig to help justify price to yourself and customers? Let your products speak for themselves, you're business tact is poor to say the least. No need to chop the other trees down to make yourself taller.

[john boxter]

to be far he has not really chopped anybody down all he is asking is people to back up what they say i have yet to see a post saying "you are dumb" or anything like that he is very politely asking him to back things up is that so bad? i am glad vince came out with these new pipes helps the prices drop i to wanna see facts though what you guys think

[Kensta335]

Originally Posted by john boxter

to be far he has not really chopped anybody down all he is asking is people to back up what they say i have yet to see a post saying "you are dumb" or anything like that he is very politely asking him to back things up is that so bad? i am glad vince came out with these new pipes helps the prices drop i to wanna see facts though what you guys think

Whoa, super run-on sentence brah.

I'll agree that AR isn't doing anything wrong but he is definitely losing respect from alot of the members on here.

[john boxter]

ye that is true

[ar design]

Originally Posted by Kensta335

Whoa, super run-on sentence brah.

I'll agree that AR isn't doing anything wrong but he is definitely losing respect from alot of the members on here.

A bit perplexed how one can lose respect by asking another person to back up what they claim? I can't quite get my head around the fanbois on here claiming I am cutting someone down and attacking them by asking them to back up claims that have been posted on a public forum. You don't see me calling anyone "stupid" etc anywhere.

[john boxter]

hey im with ya i wanna see his data im truly curious as to which one is best?

[JesusFrEAk]

Originally Posted by john boxter

to be far he has not really chopped anybody down all he is asking is people to back up what they say i have yet to see a post saying "you are dumb" or anything like that he is very politely asking him to back things up is that so bad? i am glad vince came out with these new pipes helps the prices drop i to wanna see facts though what you guys think

+1000

Ya it's great that Vince can offer another downpiper to the community at an aggressive price but I don't thin there's anything wrong with asking someone to prove how their product is pretty much identical to a more expensive one at half the price.

Bottom line, I and I'm sure others don't want to blindly buy a product that claims to be equal in quality a half the price but yet fails to provide the data to prove it. If it would affect AR's business so much to reveal that then it doesn't make sense for Andrew to be asking Vince to back up his claims.

In the end I will probably buy some, if not all, of Vinces products but I'm no completely sold on the fact that Vince says quality is the same.

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by ar design

A bit perplexed how one can lose respect by asking another person to back up what they claim? I can't quite get my head around the fanbois on here claiming I am cutting someone down and attacking them by asking them to back up claims that have been posted on a public forum. You don't see me calling anyone "stupid" etc anywhere.

AR , why should Vince prove anything to you?? You are not his customer, you are a competetior. He already said ...if there are issues these are warrantied for life. Its between him and his customers, he has been on this forums longer than you have...has been standup guy on all my transactions...that's why i am backing him up. No manufacaturer has the liability to prove anything to another manufacturer. BMW doesnt have to prove to Infiniti...they sell on their own merits. I hope you are sharp enough to understand this basic business tact. The customers are all that matters.

When i had Dinan rip me off for a stupid OC charging 3k ...Vince sold me one for 600 bucks ...to this day its working excellent and i track the car...no limp modes nothing. Same thing when IC's where 1500..i wanted a direct fit...it goes on.

Just end this there and stop asking proof , data and other useless info...Just compete ...or just die. Simple as that.

Whether he provides data and answers to your questions are not ...he has already sold 70+ DP's and stop disrespecting and second guessing collective intelligence of all these people who purchased on their own will.

The longer you stay on here with your rant ...the more respect you lose...save yourself.

And yes ..the fact that he has a fan following ...must tell you something about his products.

[JesusFrEAk]

If anything I see it as an attack from Vince on AR. Basically making it seem like AR is trying to pocket more money. Although that may very well be the case it doesn't change the fact that if Vince claims they are basically identical then let's see some data and this thread can be over.

In my minds eye it's almost like Vince is saying "Hey AR I have a downpipe that is of equal quality at a better price and everyone knows it and I don't have to prove it's better."

that would be ok if he provided data comparing the two downpipes. If this was the case there would be no doubt that Vinces downpipes are a better bet cuz of identical quality, lifetime warrant and half the price of competition.

[JesusFrEAk]

vbmw335 you don't want to really get down to who's product is the best???

I know I do. In the end it doesn't matter cuz people will still buy VK downpipes because they are a great product at a ridiculously cheap price.

[ar design]

Originally Posted by vbmw335

AR , why should Vince prove anything to you?? You are not his customer, you are a competetior. He already said ...if there are issues these are warrantied for life. Its between him and his customers, he has been on this forums longer than you have...has been standup guy on all my transactions...that's why i am backing him up.

When i had Dinan rip me off for a stupid OC charging 3k ...Vince sold me one for 600 bucks ...to this day its working excellent and i track the car...no limp modes nothing. Same thing when IC's where 1500..i wanted a direct fit...it goes on.

Just end this there and stop asking proof , data and other useless info...Just compete ...or just die. Simple as that.

Whether he provides data and answers to your questions are not ...he has already sold 70+ DP's and stop disrespecting and second guessing collective intelligence of all these people who purchased on their own will.

The longer you stay on here with your rant ...the more respect you lose...save yourself.

And yes ..the fact that he has a fan following ...must tell you something about his products.

He certainly doesn't have to. But not backing claims made on a public board certainly looks pretty weaksauce.

Originally Posted by JesusFrEAk

If anything I see it as an attack from Vince on AR. Basically making it seem like AR is trying to pocket more money. Although that may very well be the case it doesn't change the fact that if Vince claims they are basically identical then let's see some data and this thread can be over.

In my minds eye it's almost like Vince is saying "Hey AR I have a downpipe that is of equal quality at a better price and everyone knows it and I don't have to prove it's better."

that would be ok if he provided data comparing the two downpipes. If this was the case there would be no doubt that Vinces downpipes are a better bet cuz of identical quality, lifetime warrant and half the price of competition.

Wow. Someone gets it. The accusations and libel in this thread have been directed at ME - not Vince. We are constantly accused of ripping people off, and overcharging. I am here to tell you otherwise. Bottom line. So if anyone needs to stop the "shameless tactics", its not me.

[ar design]

Pics as requested earlier. Taken on our fab bench, before final prep for shipment, so ignore the dust/fingerprints please

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by JesusFrEAk

vbmw335 you don't want to really get down to who's product is the best???

I know I do. In the end it doesn't matter cuz people will still buy VK downpipes because they are a great product at a ridiculously cheap price.

Best is a subjective term..in this case you will not know the answer. Its the risk you are willing to take...whatever works for you is the best. Some are price sensitive , some think more $$ means better quality , some just go based on past experience with the vendor and CS.

I dont think Vince is going and saying his is better than AR , ...but AR is the one saying his is better than VK's .

I honestly think ..there is not much difference in such a low tech component. But that's my take. I dont need an overengineered DP, need something to serve my purpose.

[Kensta335]

Originally Posted by ar design

A bit perplexed how one can lose respect by asking another person to back up what they claim? I can't quite get my head around the fanbois on here claiming I am cutting someone down and attacking them by asking them to back up claims that have been posted on a public forum. You don't see me calling anyone "stupid" etc anywhere.

I don't know. I guess it's the way you are handling the situation.

I don't own any DP's or plan on buying any. I'm just here to observe and join in all the fun.

[ar design]

Originally Posted by Kensta335

I don't know. I guess it's the way you are handling the situation.

I don't own any DP's or plan on buying any. I'm just here to observe and join in all the fun.

I am always open to suggestions, if you have any specific ones, feel free to PM me!