[MEGA]

I had it too. Used a sillicone based spray on cleaner at the local polish place to remove it. Bit of elbow grease too

Do probably need to re-wax now though.. I guess that stuff stripped all my protection off...

Dave

[jingle68]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

That is the most insane-in-the-membrane thing I've ever heard!

Sadly, my oven isn't big enough to fit the car in and nor do I have a garage/room that I can get the car into to dry these spots off.

I guess the next best thing is to try a hair dryer has the chap above suggested. I will give it a shot tomorrow and report back.

I assume if all else fails and the problem is indeed water absorbed into the lacquer...leaving the motor out in the Sun should help? It's a black car so heats up quite a lot when in direct Sun...

What do you think?

2 weeks ago I inspected a brand new mk6 golf gti in black which had just been delivered to the dealership , it had been pdi'd & registered for delivery & was just going to the valeters to have superguard protection applied when the valeter notice it was covered in these marks, he tried for an hour to polish the marks out before i was called to inspect the vehicle.
I quickly removed a patch by using a heatgun to prove that it was moisture absorbed into the top coat, the vehicle was then left outside in the sunshine for the rest of the day & then in the heated workshop overnight.All the remainding marks had gone by the morning.

Before you pay out to attempt to 'fix' your vehicle , i suggest trying a hairdryer on a patch to either confirm or dispell my opinion.

Jingle68

Extract from VW paint & body inspection manual...

This is due to moisture lying beneath the top coat.

This is not a warrantable defect and the bodywork does not need to be repaired. Any work required is part of the PDI process costs.

Remedy

To remove the water mark, gently warm the affected area with a heat gun until the marks disappear. Alternatively, you can use a paint drying lamp. With either method, make sure that you do not get too close or set the temperature too high.

The water marks can also be removed simply by leaving the car in a warm room overnight.

Any such marks in the paintwork must be removed before delivery to customers.

[EddieL]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

Eddie,

I appreciate what you are saying but no matter how you look at it a machine polish will reduce paint thickness and of therefore the available paint thickness for any future corrections.

If a polish is the only solution then so be it but surely it is advisable to exhaust other potential solutions first?

As suggested by flyfs6 I will take my car to one of the local recommended pro-detailers to get an "eyes-on" opinion. Also the opinion of Dodo Factory is not to be disregarded surely?

I am only trying to reassure you that a machine polish will not detract from your car and will indeed enhance it.

Yes always go down the least aggressive route and step up till the problem has been dealt with.

Dodo Factory (Dom) is one person I would certainly listen to, and have in the past. He would be high on my list of people I would hope for to reply to a cry for help. But listen to what he has said so far.

I guess the harder clears are resisting the metal particles better.
it is definitely 'fallout' of some nature.
Obviously, if it could be confirmed as railway fallout it would help. This does seem the prime theory but isn't set in stone yet.

I'm sure our clears are amongst the hardest around.

As I said earlier, once you know what has caused it then you can start to deal with it.

Still you seem to be going in the right direction towards a solution. Wish you the best.

[GX337]

As in my earlier post i had the same marks on my alfa, i always wash with mitts etc and never have had this problem before. I tried AG paint restorer but no difference at all, so i just left it and a week later the marks were gone with the few remaining marks coming off with a light finger rub!. I don`t live near railway lines but it definately looks like some kind of atmospheric fall out(pre volcano).

[Jamese93]

Interesting thread!

For what it' worth, I had a 2008 e93 in sparkling graphite. The paint was absolutely crap - really really bad - flies burnt into the laquer (when bugs hit their acidic guts burn into the paint). BMW finally accepted it was sub-standard and bought the car back.

However, in the basement here there are a few 2008 Bimmers, and lo and behold a montego blue saloon has fly marks burnt all over the front, the same as mine had, and a black one series has the same - these are visible just walking past before you think I'm very strange examining my neighbours motors!

No other beemers have done it (in terms of years) and my current 2009 one is perfect - I just think there was something wrong with the laquer and it was to soft at some point around 2008, and they've now generally fixed it. Strange, but my view for what it's worth. If the marks are burnt in as others say only option is to polish the coat down a tiny bit with a machine polish to "remove" the marks. Good luck!

[sniffer]

I would bet it is to do with cost cutting.

I met a guy recently who worked for BMW in Munich.

When the economy tanked and sales dried up, BMW were nervous and embarked on a cost cutting programme, which ultimately would have affected the product.

This is why we see things being removed from the LCI cars.

[jingle68]

Originally Posted by sniffer

I would bet it is to do with cost cutting.

I met a guy recently who worked for BMW in Munich.

When the economy tanked and sales dried up, BMW were nervous and embarked on a cost cutting programme, which ultimately would have affected the product.

This is why we see things being removed from the LCI cars.

its nothing to do with cost cutting, its all to do with worldwide Legislation to lower the legal limits of Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) which are found in paint.

This has forced all motor vehicle manufacturers to use water based (also known as Waterbourne) paint on vehicles instead of the old traditional 'Solvent' based paint which contains Volatile Organic Compounds.

VOC is a very broad term used to label chemicals such as thinners that evaporate very easily from the liquids they were mixed in solution with.

Unfortunately , despite the best efforts of the paint manufacturers, water based paints will absorb moisture etc until technoligy advances ,unlike the old solvent based paints which had a hard coating or seal.

I hope this makes sense?

[toxicnerve]

jingle, heating up the spots did nothing for my car. Also it has to be said that the Sun has probably got the panels hotter than my missus' hair dryer every could!!

I am going to get Rob from Gleam Machine to have a look, I called but not answer so waiting on a call back. Hopefully once he has had an eyes-on look he will be able to offer advice/a solution.

[jingle68]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

jingle, heating up the spots did nothing for my car. Also it has to be said that the Sun has probably got the panels hotter than my missus' hair dryer every could!!

I am going to get Rob from Gleam Machine to have a look, I called but not answer so waiting on a call back. Hopefully once he has had an eyes-on look he will be able to offer advice/a solution.

well at least you have eliminated my theory, sorry it isnt as simple as a moisture issue, i hope you get it resolved.

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by jingle68

well at least you have eliminated my theory, sorry it isnt as simple as a moisture issue, i hope you get it resolved.

Thanks for trying mate!

[flyfs6]

What did Rob say?

[toxicnerve]

Ah, he tried to call me the other day but I was on my way out and I've not had a chance to get back to him.

I'm pretty tied up now but I will try and get in touch with him when I get a minute. Might be a while though!!

In the meantime, the spots, while still there are now much less apparent which is nice!!

[sniffer]

Originally Posted by jingle68

its nothing to do with cost cutting, its all to do with worldwide Legislation to lower the legal limits of Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs) which are found in paint.

This has forced all motor vehicle manufacturers to use water based (also known as Waterbourne) paint on vehicles instead of the old traditional 'Solvent' based paint which contains Volatile Organic Compounds.

VOC is a very broad term used to label chemicals such as thinners that evaporate very easily from the liquids they were mixed in solution with.

Unfortunately , despite the best efforts of the paint manufacturers, water based paints will absorb moisture etc until technoligy advances ,unlike the old solvent based paints which had a hard coating or seal.

I hope this makes sense?

Yes it does make sense. I thought water based paints had been in use for a little while though and thought it strange that there seemed to be a lot of cars suffering that are built around 08.

My reasoning was that perhaps something was changed in an effort to lower build cost(s).

[jjbirch]

i have just noticed it on my boot, tryed claying and polish but no good, my try the hair dryer

[jingle68]

Originally Posted by jjbirch

i have just noticed it on my boot, tryed claying and polish but no good, my try the hair dryer

to be honest its normally on new vehicles where moisture absorbes into the top coat , otherwise it would be 'fallout' of somekind, either industrial or natural

[Mike-Bracknell]

Originally Posted by sniffer

Yes it does make sense. I thought water based paints had been in use for a little while though and thought it strange that there seemed to be a lot of cars suffering that are built around 08.

My reasoning was that perhaps something was changed in an effort to lower build cost(s).

Well I was told by the DuPont paint sprayer who sprayed my S1 Elise in 1998 the same story about the switch to water based paints (which were happening at Lotus at that time), so yes it has been around for at least a decade.

[789456]

I have two fairly new BMWs and appear to have a similar issue so I thought I would share what I have seen


I had them both professionally washed at different companies in different locations just before Easter and they were returned completely dry and the paintowrk was fine (I always check to ensure they have not been scratched whilst being cleaned). So they werent left out in the sun to dry after being cleaned with tap water.

When one of them was cleaned over the last weekend of April the company told me that I had major paint problems as there we significant markings all over the bonnet , boot and on the tops of the doors and wings. I then cleaned the other one myself and it had exactly the same issue. It is hard to describe in writing but the pictures in this post are near as damn identical

My local BMW dealer told me to get the car professionally polished by a specialist. They also said that they had seen other cars with the same issue.

I asked around friends and coleagues about who i could trust with one of my cars and chose a company quite a way from my house as they were the best recommendation. . They said they were confident but it would take a days worth of work by a team of people.

Unfortunately they were unable to remove this with conventional means so suggested a more involved process which i think they said was something like - extensive cutting and correctional work including wet sanding which would take between 2 and 3 days. (seems to match with some of the other comments)

I decided to get this done on the older of the two cars and the positive outcome is that they got rid of them, the negative one is that my bank balance is significabtly smaller.

I have been in touch with BMW customer services about this and as yet have had no positive response.

[Rainbowoverwales]

I took delivery of my brand new F10 520d BMW (in Jet Black) exactly 4 months ago and I paid an extra £400 for the Supaguard Paint Protection. The car has been hand-washed once a week as well as any bird mess being removed as soon as it is noticed. However, even though the bird mess is removed so that the paintwork is completely smooth, it leaves an in-grained greyish mark in the paintwork which is unremovable. The same problem occurs with dead insects on the front and bonnet as well as the door mirrors - the dead insects can be removed but they leave an in-grained stain in the paintwork. The result being that the paintwork on my car is already badly marked, diminishing both the appearance and the value.

Prior to buying my BMW I had a black VW Golf for 6 years, which has the same usage and was kept in the same place. The paintwork of the Golf never suffered from any of these problems. My partner had a 10 year old dark blue BMW which never had paintwork problems and he now has a 9 year old light green BMW which again is fine.

It would appear from the postings on various internet sites that this is an inherrent problem with the new water-based BMW paint and is especially bad/noticeable on the black cars. As far as I am concerned, if the new paint BMW are using can be marked so easily during normal everyday usage, it is not fit for purpose. I am planning to return my car to the dealer this week and tell them this.

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by Rainbowoverwales

I took delivery of my brand new F10 520d BMW (in Jet Black) exactly 4 months ago and I paid an extra £400 for the Supaguard Paint Protection. The car has been hand-washed once a week as well as any bird mess being removed as soon as it is noticed. However, even though the bird mess is removed so that the paintwork is completely smooth, it leaves an in-grained greyish mark in the paintwork which is unremovable. The same problem occurs with dead insects on the front and bonnet as well as the door mirrors - the dead insects can be removed but they leave an in-grained stain in the paintwork. The result being that the paintwork on my car is already badly marked, diminishing both the appearance and the value.

Prior to buying my BMW I had a black VW Golf for 6 years, which has the same usage and was kept in the same place. The paintwork of the Golf never suffered from any of these problems. My partner had a 10 year old dark blue BMW which never had paintwork problems and he now has a 9 year old light green BMW which again is fine.

It would appear from the postings on various internet sites that this is an inherrent problem with the new water-based BMW paint and is especially bad/noticeable on the black cars. As far as I am concerned, if the new paint BMW are using can be marked so easily during normal everyday usage, it is not fit for purpose. I am planning to return my car to the dealer this week and tell them this.

Good luck with the above Rainbow,don't expect much joy from the dealer though in terms of the BMW paint.
In your circumstance I'd be demanding back the £400.00 you paid for the Supaguard paint protection, which is possibly the biggest misnomer possible, and is nothing more than a rip off.

BMW should be ashamed of themselves for still promoting what is a total waste of money.

[chrismanchr]

ive got some of those marks also although mine is a solid colour (crimson red) and they are hardly noticable they are at the bottom of the drivers door and near the b post ,but i thought they might of been someone being too hard with a machine polisher

[ab2pcs]

Could it be cement dust .....been near any construction sites ???

[toxicnerve]

The cement dust theory was proposed over on Detailing World too.

Next time I wash the car I will check but IIRC the spots appear to have faded but that might be just because I had a couple of coats of wax on.