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No start: New CPS, Camshaft sensors, Solenoid sensors
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03-18-2024, 02:51 PM | #1 |
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No start: New CPS, Camshaft sensors, Solenoid sensors
Hello everyone. I'm a long time BMW enthusiast with various older model BMWs. Recently, I acquired a 2010 328i sedan that cranks but does not start.
The car has 168K miles and after pulling some codes and a bit of troubleshooting, I decided to replace components that I thought relates to the crank/no start issue. So far, I have replaced the following with new parts: Crank Position sensor (2) Camshaft sensors (2) Solenoid sensors The car cranks but does not start. If left for a day or two and reattempt to start, the first initial crank sounds like the motor wants to catch. Subsequent start attempts result in continuous crank without sounding like it wants to start. The codes that I have are: P0015 (Exhaust "B" Camshaft Position Timing - Over - Retarded Bank 1) P054B (cold start B camshaft) P0365 Camshaft Position B Circuit Most of the codes shown shows as permanent. I'm at a loss for ideas at the moment and opened for suggestions from the talented pool of the collective mind here. Anyone has any ideas what to do next? Thank you in advance. Chris |
03-18-2024, 08:10 PM | #2 | |
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Connector X6224, & DME Connector X60007. See the attached ISTA wiring diagram & Connector Location/Views. If suggestions for TESTING with Multimeter or whatever Scan Tool/ diagnostic software you have are desired, please advise, & provide Make/Model of Scan Tool or Software. Here is BMW Fault Code Lookup Definition of "2AA1" & LINK to Fault Info Sheet (See Service Notes): P0365 | 2AA1 | DME: Camshaft sensor, exhaust, signal | MSV80 | Engine electronics https://bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagView?d...MAOQA4ADAANAA= George |
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03-19-2024, 11:31 PM | #3 |
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Hello Gbalthrop. Thank you for sharing the wiring diagram and input on what the culprit may be. Per your suggestion, I can test the wiring for the exhaust camshaft position sensor.
Currently, I have the FoxwellNT510Elite scanner. I also have a digital multimeter. If you don't mind, please kindly share your suggestion on performing the tests using the tools listed above. Thank you, Chris |
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03-21-2024, 11:13 AM | #4 | |
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Starting with the "Worst-Case Scenario": Has vehicle had the "VANOS Bolt Recall" (23V-707) performed? Those codes could be caused by any number of things, but there was recently someone with corresponding faults for Intake Cam (YOUR issue is Exhaust Cam), and he had FOUR broken VANOS Bolts. NOT to be an alarmist, but particularly if you have NO reliable history on vehicle, I would suggest using a USB Endoscope ($20 Amazon) to view Bolt heads through Oil Filler Port. That does NOT require removal of VC. It does require a Laptop or Android Phone to which you connect the Endoscope. Please examine the Cam Sensors you removed CAREFULLY for any indication of metal-contact to the Sensor end inserted into engine. If there is NO alarming sound from engine (metal-to-metal contact) during cranking I would suggest using "Live data" (beginning at p.19 of NT510Elite Manual) to view (1) RPM & (2) Cam Angles (both) during Starter Cranking. That will offer some clues as to whether DME is receiving RPM signal from Crank Sensor, & Cam Angle Signals from Cam Sensors. If DME is NOT receiving those signals, it CANNOT time Spark & Injector Pulse, causing "Crank, NO Start". I don't have a Foxwell, but it appears you begin by "connecting" to the DME Module & then select "Live data" from Function Menu. Using those "Live Data" values as initial clues, we can suggest HOW to test wiring/ connectors using your multimeter. Let us know if you already know how to measure (1) Voltage or (2) Continuity (Resistance/Ohms) using Multimeter. George |
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03-21-2024, 12:15 PM | #5 |
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Hello George. Thank you for the detailed reply. Yes, I have a background in electronics so am comfortable with using the mulitmeter to test voltages, resistance and so forth. I just need to get some proper leads for the multimeter to test the components that I replaced.
However, the new components (cam sensors, solenoid valves, crankshaft sensor) have all been installed and with the same symptoms and errors. Errors did not change. As you recommended, I will purchase an endoscope as it will come in handy for other tasks as well. I have also placed an order with Autohausaz for the following items as I intend to refresh the parts anyways on a 168K miles engine that I have no maintenance records on. The engine is very dry with very little oil leaks...very pleasantly surprised for a BMW. 1: Variable valve lift eccentric shaft actuator 2: Valve cover gasket kit 3: Valve cover bolts 4: Variable valve lift eccentric shaft actuator seal 5: Spark plug tube As of now, I do not hear any alarming sound from the engine while cranking. The only thing I noticed is the smell of fuel in the engine oil when I pulled the oil filter to examine the oil condition as well as all the parts that needed to be there (all parts present so no concern). I suspect unburned fuel made it into the oil due to multiple attempts at starting the motor. I will report back on the "live data" extraction using the Foxwell per your suggestion. Thank you again, George, for the troubleshooting assistance. Much appreciated brother. Regards, Chris |
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03-22-2024, 11:37 PM | #6 |
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Hello George. Sorry for the late update as I haven't had much free time to continue with the troubleshooting in the last couple days. Anyways, I had some downtime tonight so went out to the garage and hooked up the Foxwell NT510Elite scanner to get some readings from Live Data menu.
I ran a couple of crank sessions and it does appear that the DME is getting signals from the cam sensors. Please see the data below: Name: Reference Value ------- --------- ----- First Start Attempt: --------------------- Ignition timing 2.5* Degree advance for #1 cylinder Engine RPM 155- 168 RPM Absolute Throttle 14.9 % Position Second Start Attempt: ------------------------- Ignition timing 2.5* Degree advance for #1 cylinder Engine RPM 180- 215 RPM Absolute Throttle 14.9 % Position So what do you think of the readings? I hope that the "ignition timing" is the same difference as what you were looking for in cam angle. Thanks, Chris Last edited by 2010_328i; 03-23-2024 at 02:44 AM.. |
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03-23-2024, 01:32 PM | #7 | |
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That data indicates the DME is receiving input from the Crankshaft Sensor. I CANNOT account for WHY the 1st Start Attempt shows considerably LOWER RPM than the 2nd Attempt. But since you have NO "P0335" code for Crank Sensor signal, & 2nd attempt is > 180 RPM, I don't believe the Crank Sensor signal is causing "Crank, NO Start". Ignition timing is NOT the same as Cam Timing/ Angle. That is the timing of SPARK to ignite fuel during Starter Cranking, showing 2.5 degrees BEFORE TDC (Top Dead Center) or just before piston reaches top of its travel in "Compression Stroke". I have NO Idea if that is ACTUAL spark or rather (Probably) "Target" Ignition Timing. If you have a cheap (~ $5 at HFT) Spark Tester that is connected "In-line" between Coil & Spark Plug, that would be easiest way to determine IF there is actual spark: https://www.harborfreight.com/in-lin...ker-63590.html You could also use a mechanic's stethoscope (cheap/ basic tool) to listen to one or two injectors for "Click" or pulse during Starter Cranking, to see if dme is pulsing the injectors. The three codes related to Exhaust Cam Sensor, together with "Crank, NO Start", suggest the dme is NOT getting needed Cam Sensor Signal. Lack of Spark & Injector Pulse would confirm that: https://www.harborfreight.com/mechan...ope-63691.html You CAN just use a Long-handled Screwdriver, with bit end against injector body, & handle to your ear. "Shade Tree Mechanic" techniques sometimes work better, or at least as well for some things, than expensive Electronics. Suggestions: 1) Use "Freeze Frame data" to View/ Save/ Post the System Conditions at the moment EACH of the three Fault Codes was saved. That can offer "Clues" of WHY a code is saved. See this description of FF data: https://www.obdautodoctor.com/tutori...ame-explained/ 2) See what "Live Data" your Foxwell is able to Display. See "Complete List" on page 20 of your Foxwell Manual. Look for: VANOS, Intake Cam, Exhaust Cam. Those are possible "Parameters" or labels for desired data. See my INPA "VANOS" Screen from my 3/2007 build N52K, MSV80 dme, attached to NEXT Post. Since the "Target" angle during Starter Cranking is NOT same as Exhaust Cam Angle after engine start & warmup, that LIVE data may NOT be terribly helpful. 3) Report results from above, and we can suggest "Next Steps". George |
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03-23-2024, 01:40 PM | #8 |
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INPA Live data showing VANOS Signals with Ignition ON, PRIOR to Starter Cranking, MSV80 dme, 3/2007 N52K.
Auslass = Exhaust; Sollwert = Target/ Setpoint George |
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03-24-2024, 11:32 PM | #9 |
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Hi George,
A short report back while I had half hour to work on the car this evening. 1: I do have a mechanic's stethoscope and inline spark tester (these were used extensively on my '91 850i when I was troubleshooting rough idle and no start issues a number of years back). 2: With the stethoscope and a helper, I was able to confirm that the DME was commanding the fuel injectors as I hear the click, click click sound while the helper cranked the engine for a few seconds at a time (all 6 injectors firing). 3: My Lisle inline spark plug tester is too short on both ends (spark plug and coil plug) so I ended up having to order another tester from Amazon that looks like it would work. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 4: I haven't had time to read up on the user's manual to do the freeze frame but will be getting around to that tomorrow hopefully. 5: I removed the new cam sensors (intake and exhaust) and measured resistance on the plugs for each sensor. The resistance values of both sensor electrical connectors match. For example, 3 three cables on the plug main colors are: Orange Black Yellow Orange to Black = 4ohm Yellow to Black = 2.64Kohm Orange to Yellow = 2.64Kohm One thing worth mentioning is that the first attempt to start the motor after removing and reinstalling the cam sensors, the first 2-3 seconds sound like the motor want to catch but then it just cranks. Previous times when the motor sounds like it wants to catch on the first attempt of start was when the motor was left alone for a couple of days. Not sure how I can correlate that event to something yet. Thanks, Chris |
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