[chromisdesigns]

I really don't care what the stuff is made from. I'll use the BMW oil because it got me 130K plus miles on my old M3 with nary an engine complaint, and it's among the few oils approved for our '08 335i.

If I was trying to save a few bucks on oil, I wouldn't have bought a BMW in the first place!

Racing's a whole 'nuther animal. M3 racer types used to use Redline or Amsoil a lot. But they were NOT worried about warranties or super-long engine life, either!

[hun77777]

why do you say that redline or amsoil is better than those oils that are in group 4 and also in BMW LL01? those are not certainly any cheaper neither... the argument here is not about getting cheaper oil but figuring out which are better synthetic oil for our engine...

[raceyBMW]

+1 Well said

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

No one knows if any non LL-01 oil is better for your BMW without serious and expensive lab and field testing. As noted in the other oil threads BMW and other car makers define the actual physical properties and to some degree chemical composition of the oils for each specific application. There are oils that might be as good as BMW LL-01 oils or perhaps better but without going through the entire LL-01 oil test sequence for verification, there is absolutely no way of knowing. In addition for those who value their warranty, using a non approved engine oil can most definitely void your warranty as the car makers oil requirement is part of the purchaser's responsibility under the terms of your new vehicle warranty.
Even if you had the exact chemical formulation for the different LL-01 approved oils, which you'd never get, you still would not be able to determine what oil performs best.

SCREW BMW! They make cars!! NOT OIL. The oil manufactuers, in this case, Castrol, pays BMW to run the oil in the M5 engine for a certain number of hours, after which a sample and an analysis is taken. The first obvious problem with that is that not all BMW engines are like the M5. They just have assumed that the M5 engine is the hardest on oil. Some engines are turbo, some are diesel, some are even turbo diesel, not all are a high reving, Naturally Aspirated V10.

That being said, if you want to assume that there is no difference between a mineral oil BASED lubricant + additives (marketed as "Synthetic" through legal loop holes), and a Synthetic BASED oil, then Be my guest.

Lastly, before you worship BMW approval, remember what happened to E46 M3 owners. They were all told to use BMW 5W30 synthetic or their warranty was voided. After BMW fixed a whole bunch of blown engines, BMW changed their story to: "if you don't use Castrol TWS 10W 60, then your warranty is voided." Go figure

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115

Lastly, before you worship BMW approval, remember what happened to E46 M3 owners. They were all told to use BMW 5W30 synthetic or their warranty was voided. After BMW fixed a whole bunch of blown engines, BMW changed their story to: "if you don't use Castrol TWS 10W 60, then your warranty is voided." Go figure

Even if this were true seeing as the V10 is the highest running (in terms of RPM) engine in BMW domestic stable I think it's a fairly good benchmark.

As for the E46M3 engine problem it was NOT related to engine oil. IIRC TWS 10w-60 has been required since the Z3M (same engine as E46, but a tad down on HP).

A batch of E46M3's were manufactured with the incorrect bearing tolerences (literally the dept which made the bearings didn't get the memo). This was the cause for engine problems. It was never about oil.

[TexAg06]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

No disrespect but you have a lot of false, baseless beliefs. If you think you know more about what oil is best for your Bimmer, so be it. You can argue about oil until you're blue in the face but scientific testing to the LL-01 or other appropriate application specifications is the only means to reach any intelligent conclusion. The base oil doesn't make or break an oil. It's the actual performance of the oil that counts. There is no way for any consumer to determine what oils are suitable let alone best for their engine unless they are willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars for proper scientific testing.

actually you are incorrect. when castrol won their case about Group 3 being "synthetic", mobil 1 changed their formula from group 4 to group 3. oil analysis of actual use shows that the new formula has not performed nearly as well as the old base formula especially with regards to shearing.

it's actually not very expensive to get your oil analyzed. hope this helps.

[Brock]

only way they can void it is if....

1- they are giving you the oil for free and say use what we give you or void warranty...if not providing the oil then they cant as long as it meets their written standards.

2- if for some reason it does not contain the coded standard BMW wants...then they would need to prove that oil was the cause of the failure, breakage, etc....

BMW requires LL-01 for gasoline engines in our cars....if they meet that standard and they are not providing their version for free then you can use it without issue. If you use AMSOIL or another that does not state it meets LL-01 for gasoline engines then it is a crap shoot. The oil may meet or exceed the standard but until they put it on the label it dont count. Now they cant void your entire warranty and can only void a claim that is directly related to the oil used and they are required to be able to prove it.

I am AMSOIL dealer mostly for my own use rather than making any money....and AMSOIL will only stand behind their oils and cover legal cost or repair costs if you use it as directed and as of this week they do not yet claim LL-01 compatibility. Though they likely will soon as they just came out with Toyota WS transmission fluid which is in the same boat with Toyota and maybe one other company offering it before AMSOIL came out with one that meets it as well.

I suspect this year it will happen but in this economy nobody is jumping through hoops to spend a lot of their own money for testing and such if a solid return is not possible.

When mine is out of its initial 4 year warranty and I know longer have free service visits...I will be changing it out to AMSOIL if that is any indication of whether I am worried or not.

Good Luck...

[Turkeybaster115]

Originally Posted by TexAg06

actually you are incorrect. when castrol won their case about Group 3 being "synthetic", mobil 1 changed their formula from group 4 to group 3. oil analysis of actual use shows that the new formula has not performed nearly as well as the old base formula especially with regards to shearing.
it's actually not very expensive to get your oil analyzed. hope this helps.

You are a very informed man!