[testdriver]

but.... My question is:

Is the M3 wishbone is all I need to achieve more Negative camber ?

and, what would be the benefit of adding the M3 Front Tension Rod ?


Thanks for your help


Note: I had the PSS10 installed with the pin drilled out, but I only have 0.9 degree Neg camber and I want to have more....

[kevin@bavarianx]

To get more negative camber out of the fronts you would need camber plates from either Ground Control or Vorshlag.

The benefits of M3 components gives your e90 stiffer bushings and improves handling as you gain M3 suspension geometry. Your steering should feel more precise.

[jbass524]

Originally Posted by kevin@bavarianx

To get more negative camber out of the fronts you would need camber plates from either Ground Control or Vorshlag.

The benefits of M3 components gives your e90 stiffer bushings and improves handling as you gain M3 suspension geometry. Your steering should feel more precise.

You also get a little negative camber. I experienced -0.4 and -0.5 degrees. Take the alignment pins out and you can get about -1 degree of camber.

That might be enough for the OP. Vorshlags are exceptional but too noisy for some.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by testdriver

but.... My question is:

Is the M3 wishbone is all I need to achieve more Negative camber ?

and, what would be the benefit of adding the M3 Front Tension Rod ?


Thanks for your help


Note: I had the PSS10 installed with the pin drilled out, but I only have 0.9 degree Neg camber and I want to have more....

We have done all the R&D back in 2008.

If you are simply looking for a bit more camber, the M3 wishbone is all you need to achieve that. You will get between -0.5 to -0.75, some have reported more.

The benefit of the M3 tension rod is to reduce caster change and suspension deflection under braking and cornering loads. It will also give you better feedback and speed up driver's input as well.

[testdriver]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

We have done all the R&D back in 2008.

If you are simply looking for a bit more camber, the M3 wishbone is all you need to achieve that. You will get between -0.5 to -0.75, some have reported more.

The benefit of the M3 tension rod is to reduce caster change and suspension deflection under braking and cornering loads. It will also give you better feedback and speed up driver's input as well.

Thanks so much for your input and information....... as the suspension settle down a bit, I measure it today and found out the front camber increase to -1.5 ( with pin already remove) and the front tires is no longer hitting the inner fender, however the rear camber increase to -2.6 ( which I think is a little more than I need)

Giving the current situation, if I install the M wishbone I may get -2 degree of camber and I'm not too sure is it too much for (fast) street driving..... I'll consider the M tension rod if it can enhance driver's input. Thanks again

[achien]

you do realize your tires are going to wear out sooner with those aggressive camber settings.

consider you are in HK and there are more twisty roads than highway driving, you may be okay.

Originally Posted by testdriver

Thanks so much for your input and information....... as the suspension settle down a bit, I measure it today and found out the front camber increase to -1.5 ( with pin already remove) and the front tires is no longer hitting the inner fender, however the rear camber increase to -2.6 ( which I think is a little more than I need)

Giving the current situation, if I install the M wishbone I may get -2 degree of camber and I'm not too sure is it too much for (fast) street driving..... I'll consider the M tension rod if it can enhance driver's input. Thanks again

[testdriver]

Originally Posted by achien

you do realize your tires are going to wear out sooner with those aggressive camber settings.

consider you are in HK and there are more twisty roads than highway driving, you may be okay.

I fully understand and thanks for your concern, this is why I set both F&R toe at zero. From my experience, camber is not the biggest factor on uneven worn tires but the toe is. Also, like u said... HK has so many twisty road than straight hwy... that can help to even out the tires

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by testdriver

Thanks so much for your input and information....... as the suspension settle down a bit, I measure it today and found out the front camber increase to -1.5 ( with pin already remove) and the front tires is no longer hitting the inner fender, however the rear camber increase to -2.6 ( which I think is a little more than I need)

Giving the current situation, if I install the M wishbone I may get -2 degree of camber and I'm not too sure is it too much for (fast) street driving..... I'll consider the M tension rod if it can enhance driver's input. Thanks again

You can run up to -2 of front camber with increase the inside tire wear if you do most of your driving in the twisty. If you do mostly highway driving, then I would keep the front camber right around -1.5 or less.

Rear camber should be -2.

[modernbeat]

Originally Posted by jbass524

....Vorshlags are exceptional but too noisy for some.

If your Vorshlag camber plates are noisy, you installed them wrong. Most likely you didn't tighten the nut on the strut top with an impact.

[enrita]

You can also get the Dinan camber plates. No noise there.

[e90pilot]

Originally Posted by enrita

You can also get the Dinan camber plates. No noise there.

It raises the ride hight about 1/4" - 3/8" though. And they're not adjustable.

[Chowbow]

Originally Posted by e90pilot

It raises the ride hight about 1/4" - 3/8" though. And they're not adjustable.

True, but there's no parts to wear out, nothing to rattle around. It does raise the stack up height, but my PSS10s were low anyway so the 1/4" increase was not really a problem. I got -1.8* with just the Dinan plates, lowered 1" from OEM sport suspension, and pins removed. I'm looking to do the M3 arms soon myself to get a bit more camber up front. Just waiting until the bushings in the stock arms are toast.

[e90pilot]

I've got Dinan plates as well. I also have stage 3 suspension with the M3 bits and was able to get -2.3 deg up front. I just wish they didn't raise the front. The car would look way better with the front lower.

[Chowbow]

Ah got it, understood. If that really bothers you, I think you can get the Vorshlag plates which have a low stack up height which would lower the front, but hopefully it doesn't change it so much it changes the balance of the car. Double check with Vorshlag on the stack up height, but even with the stock style spring perches I recall it was a lower stack up than OEM.

[jbass524]

Originally Posted by modernbeat

If your Vorshlag camber plates are noisy, you installed them wrong. Most likely you didn't tighten the nut on the strut top with an impact.

Just the metal to metal connection makes the more clunky sound over bumps. That's why Dinan sells plates with cushioning. Quieter.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by modernbeat

If your Vorshlag camber plates are noisy, you installed them wrong. Most likely you didn't tighten the nut on the strut top with an impact.

Most of times the noise is not in the plates, but rather in the strut. Noisy strut internals gets amplified by the chassis through the camber plates. Properly installed plates are not noisy.

KW's and Koni's are two struts that often make noise.

[JamesM3M5]

Vorshlag camber plates are by far the best, most durable, most reliable, and nicest design. Ran them on my E36 M3 with Ohlins HMRC front dampers - no noise that I could tell. HP is right about the dampers possibly being the noisy component, not the plates. They simply transmit more noise from the road, but only the most picky drivers have ever mentioned anything.

You can get the same result from the M3 tension struts (thrust arms) by just changing to M3 bushings. The arms are the same, the bushings are the only different part.

And you can run -2 up to -2.5 deg camber up front with very little increase in front tire wear. They will wear faster on the inside edge, but by then the tire is pretty whipped anyway. Front toe at the low end of factory spec or even zero is OK. Rear toe at zero is not recommended - hurts putting power down exiting turns. I like -1.7 to -2.0 camber in the rear, factory toe in spec or toward the low end of the spec. For full race, we run LOTS of rear toe in and lots of front toe out - turns better and puts power down better. And tons of camber and caster - like 10-11 degrees of caster and up to -5 camber up front, -3.5 in the rear.

[mlifxs]

OP did you ever go through with this setup (M3 wishbone but non-M3 tension strut)? If yes, how is it working out for you?

I'm contemplating it but interested in hearing from people who've actually done it.

[vasillalov]

M3 control arms and tension rods here. I also knocked out the alignment pins. The car has -1.4 degrees camber on the front and -2.5 degrees of camber in the rear.

Yes, it does feels a little more stable during turn-in. Yes, there is a little more road feedback transmitted through the steering wheel, but in all honesty, I think a lot of people here are overblowing the effects of the M3 front suspension.

If you want to be serious on the track, you will need camber plates along with properly sorted out coilovers.