[cyniclaus]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Difference is in the pressure plate clamping force...same clutch disk is used...higher stages will allow for more torque holding capacity that way which results in heavier pedal feel

Thanks, so the only advantage to a lower stage is a lighter pedal. No impact on wear or anything?

[runthis]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Difference is in the pressure plate clamping force...same clutch disk is used...higher stages will allow for more torque holding capacity that way which results in heavier pedal feel

I saw your pictures of your clutch disc, and I think maybe SFRanch335, looks different.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by cyniclaus

Thanks, so the only advantage to a lower stage is a lighter pedal. No impact on wear or anything?

yes...wear will depend on abuse

Originally Posted by runthis

I saw your pictures of your clutch disc, and I think maybe SFRanch335, looks different.

It should be the same disk as well as pressure plate just a tighter setup on the pressure plate

[cyniclaus]

While we're talking about manuals, should I change out the factory CDV? If so, which is the preferred replacement?

[nitehawk]

Originally Posted by cyniclaus

While we're talking about manuals, should I change out the factory CDV? If so, which is the preferred replacement?

Yes, I would not hesitate at all to change the CDV. The lurching from 1-2 shifts is mostly eliminated for me. I can let off the clutch quicker at low speeds and can still get smooth 1-2 shifts. Just buy the M3 CDV for $~7 or an aftermarket one. They're pretty much the same.

[Justin@ADVAN Performance]

Originally Posted by cyniclaus

Thanks, that confirms what I heard. It's starting to sound like the HPF is the way to go given my upgrade plans and my AWD.



I think it has a lot to do with the added traction... no wheelspin means the drivetrain absorbs extra shock.



Thanks; The on/off I might be able to live with, but all that chatter is reason enough to keep me from a lightweight flywheel. The stock DM one builds and drops revs quickly enough for me in 90% of circumstances.

I noticed with the HPF that Stage 1-3 are all the same price. Other than the advertised tq specs, what's the difference then? Less smooth/more sudden engagement on the higher stages with the added clamping power?

Hey cyniclaus,

I have used the ACT "Street" clutch on the OE dual mass flywheel and HPF's new "Feramic" face clutch with a Stage 2 pressure plate.

I very much concur with dzenno's assessment of the ACT.

In short it is an excellent clutch which has been underrated by ACT.

From my experience it will hold a lot more than 456 ft-lbs of crank torque.

It is super "streetable" and the pedal pressure is quite comfortable, considering the diaphragm setup in the pressure plate they use, exerts a clamping load of approximately 2750 lbs.

It will handle a lot of abuse on the street, even if you are FBO with "upped" turbos.

However as you are AWD be careful launching the car, the organic lining will disintegrate quickly if you launch the car hard repeatedly with the above mods.

I have never driven a 335xi, but if the AWD system is every bit as good as those you will find in even the early model Skyline GTR's, you will hook up.

Yes,

you are every much correct with regards, "no wheelspin means the drivetrain absorbs extra shock."

What a lack of wheelspin will also do is cause the clutch friction plate to slip on the driven face of the flywheel, if the friction material does not have enough bite and/or there is insufficient clamping load being applied by the pressure plate.

If you have no intention of launching the car hard, the ACT "Street" will hold up pretty well even when you go RB turbos.

With regards HPF's new "Feramic" face clutch, it will definitely hold more crank torque than the ACT.

FYI,

The pedal pressure will increase as you move from Stage 1 through to Stage 3.

I have only seen a Stage 2 pressure plate, but I suspect all three plates use the same diaphragm finger and the fulcrum ring is changed in order to increase clamping load. The clamping load exerted by the Stage 2 plate installed on my car was around 2,420 lbs.

The engagement should not change, as that is a function of the material used on the surfaces on the friction plate and whether or not it's a full face or paddle (puck) style plate.

A sprung centre hub will be smoother again on engagement, however the OE dual mass flywheel does a very good job of eliminating any shudder you may experience with an unsprung clutch plate.

In summary the HPF Stage 2 "Feramic" face clutch kit will undoubtedly hold more torque than the ACT "Street", whilst retaining a high degree of "streetability".

The engagement is quite smooth even when mated to our non dual mass flywheel and the pedal pressure is a little less than the ACT unit.

The clutch can also be modulated easily in stop-go traffic and is far removed from the "light switch" operation of a paddle (puck) style clutch.

However if it's launched hard at the strip on drag radials, it's very much prone to welding and in your case cyniclaus, your xi AWD system almost allows you to have pair of Hoosiers in your back pocket, on a daily basis.

Cheers,

JD.

[nitehawk]

Does anyone know the clamping load of the OE pressure plate?

[cyniclaus]

Originally Posted by Justin@ADVAN Performance

If you have no intention of launching the car hard, the ACT "Street" will hold up pretty well even when you go RB turbos.

With regards HPF's new "Feramic" face clutch, it will definitely hold more crank torque than the ACT.....However if it's launched hard at the strip on drag radials, it's very much prone to welding and in your case cyniclaus, your xi AWD system almost allows you to have pair of Hoosiers in your back pocket, on a daily basis.

Thanks for your comments!

Well, I won't be going to the dragstrip on a regular basis, but I can't say I'd never "launch" the car, so the ACT may not be the safest choice

However, now you've got me afraid of the HPF welding!

No safe choice?

[dzenno]

Dude you're funny...clutch is a wear tear item depends ho hard you abuse it...you'll be fine with either nothing else to be said about this

[ar design]

Originally Posted by cyniclaus

Thanks for your comments!

Well, I won't be going to the dragstrip on a regular basis, but I can't say I'd never "launch" the car, so the ACT may not be the safest choice

However, now you've got me afraid of the HPF welding!

No safe choice?

The ACT Street disk is a safe choice IMO. If you want to drag race + 500whp, go with the 6 puck.

[dzenno]

dont expect streetability on a 6 puck though lol especially daily driving...it'll burn out before you know it

[ar design]

Hence, why I said if he wants to drag race 500whp.....

FWIW I have street driven tons of 6 pucks without issue, but it certainly is not for someone that wants 100% OEM driveability.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by ar design

FWIW I have street driven tons of 6 pucks without issue, but it certainly is not for someone that wants 100% OEM driveability.

I'm not saying they can't be street driven just don't expect to have a lasting 6 puck ceramic clutch in stop/go busy city traffic if you see a lot of that on a daily basis...that type of clutch won't like it at all and will die prematurely...notion of "city" driving is different for many people as some ride on the highway, not much stop/go which induces slip and some are literally 30-1.5 hours one way in stop/go every day on their way to work and back...i'm sure we're saying the same thing

let's put it this way, if I was in OP's position (and I was heh), stock turbos and anything i can throw on those in terms of mods, I'd personally go ACT with a resurfaced DMF and be done with it

[ar design]

Originally Posted by dzenno

I'd personally go ACT with a resurfaced DMF and be done with it

I concur

[cyniclaus]

I appreciate everyone's advice! The ACT seems a very capable unit and affordable as well. I'd definitely be getting that one if I had RWD. But given runthis' experience, I think I'd rather play it safe and go with the HPF feramic.

Now I just need to figure out how to get the DM flywheel resurfaced. Not sure if the local shop will be willing to have my car sit there while that's being done either. Does someone sell refurbished ones and then you send them your old one back for a partial refund or something?

[Carl Morris]

As someone who has friction welded a feramic disk to an ACT chromoly flywheel I just wanted to say that it took a full boost 6000rpm 2-step launch to do it. I wouldn't worry unless you plan to be doing that at some point.

I used to use ACT street disks on my Mitsu but got tired of having to change them every 100 launches or so. I don't know how it would act on a BMW but I ended up being happiest with the ACT unsprung hub race disk. Yes, it made the drivetrain a little noisier, but it lasted forever and was no problem to drive on the street even with a light flywheel. It didn't chatter at all...chatter comes from high friction (like feramic) and a sprung hub.

Having said all that, I swore on my next car I would spend the big bucks for a carbon-carbon clutch that should last the life of the car no matter how much I abused it. I hope such a thing is available for the 335 when my stock clutch goes.

[stratos_335]

My buddy who does a lot of streetracing with 1st and 2nd gear pulls fried his OEM and then his organic ACT clutch. He updated to 6-puck and convinced me to buy one for my car too.

I drove his car. There is harsh engagement when the car and the flywheel is cold and need to rev around 1000-1100 rpm int the morning. After a few minutes, the clutch feels the same in engagement as the organic.

Really, I can't wait installing mine.

[dzenno]

good luck, let us know how it goes with that clutch after some time...i'm a firm non-believer in daily driven ceramic 6 pucks that see stop/go traffic but to each their own...

[cyniclaus]

Originally Posted by Carl Morris

As someone who has friction welded a feramic disk to an ACT chromoly flywheel I just wanted to say that it took a full boost 6000rpm 2-step launch to do it. I wouldn't worry unless you plan to be doing that at some point.

That's not something I planned on doing, but it's disturbing nonetheless! I wonder, did that happen just from the one pull, or was there other clutch-stressing activity immediately prior?

Originally Posted by stratos_335

He updated to 6-puck and convinced me to buy one for my car too.

I drove his car. There is harsh engagement when the car and the flywheel is cold and need to rev around 1000-1100 rpm int the morning. After a few minutes, the clutch feels the same in engagement as the organic.

Well, that conflicts with runthis' remarks...pretty sure he's running the same clutch and he said he can't stand it. Wish I had the opportunity to test one like you did.

[Carl Morris]

It happened on the very first hard launch on that disk.

I'm a fan of the ACT unsprung race disk shown above, at least on Mitsus.

[tscdennab]

Originally Posted by Alpina_B3_Lux

I will have a Clutchmasters FX300 on my car next week, alongside with some nice upgraded turbos from Rob Beck. I'll report how the FX300 will hold up.

Alpina_B3_Lux

I also researched the FX300 but I came to the conclusion that it is not for me. Kevlar clutches last long, but have a lower friction coefficient than organic. You should break it in very carefully and for many miles (I would do at least 1500km), because otherwise it may slip early and never recover from heat.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by tscdennab

I also researched the FX300 but I came to the conclusion that it is not for me. Kevlar clutches last long, but have a lower friction coefficient than organic. You should break it in very carefully and for many miles (I would do at least 1500km), because otherwise it may slip early and never recover from heat.

+1 Once kevlar is heavily slipped it never recovers like an organic does...given the type of driving Alpina does (nurburgring and not drag strip) I doubt it'll be an issue...it also won't like stop/go traffic at all where the only choice really is organic or feramic