[Popsrcr]

Originally Posted by John 070

What if the charging system has an algorithm based on time, and makes adjustments as such, rather than to actually load test the battery on actual values?

What makes the least sense, is paying for something you wholeheartedly believes, makes no sense. You should go back to the dealership and tell them to give you your $280 back. Then just go to Wal Mart and get one of those everstart maxx batteries and save the $120.

Uh, I put my own battery in, did not pay for a BMW battery because a battery is a battery. What I did waste money on was the $60 to click the button that says "new battery"
If it has a simple charging algorithm not based on load, it is less than useless. My trickle charger does more than that and costs considerably less.

I think the $60 to click the button is just a dealer charge.

[Popsrcr]

Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6

If you go with that school of thought - then the Oil Change message should reset itself after you have changed the oil - after all, you drained out the old & put in new - it should know that right?

Technically possible,sure. But it wouldn't be doing the same thing. There is nothing the computer currently measures in the oil to say it needs changing.It is simply a mileage timer that everyone here seems to ignore anyway.

Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6

For what it's worth, here is description from Service Manual of how IBS functions to maintain the battery. Registering the battery essentially tells the system to 'forget' all the previous data/algorithms and start anew:

I don't think what you're saying is what you quoted. It should have no need to "start anew" if it is measuring current values. If the current capacity is at one moment value A and the next Value Z, and it continues to monitor this, it is going to adjust charging appropriatly. You don't tell a battery charger when there is a new battery, it knows to charge or not based on what it gets back from the battery.

[Popsrcr]

Originally Posted by smooth1

OK... Let's go with your idea here. Let's say you decide to put a battery charger on it or get a jump and it assumes you now have a new battery... you'd end up with a dead car next time around because it didn't do its job to conserve so you can appropriately make it to get a new battery.

I've ran a battery to the bare minimum to test this out... IBS does a good job.

It would not assume you have a new battery with a jump start. A jump only gives you enough CCA to get going. Once you are moving and the other battery is disconnected, its still going to read the value from your dead battery.

[1QuikWS6]

In the end, obviously it's every owners choice on whether to register or not - as the owner will have to deal with any problems that may occur from not doing it.

Some members have documented mysterious electrical problems that have popped up after new battery install without registration, yet then after registration the problems go away - some have no problems.

There have already been MANY long threads on this subject.

Personally, I have both the BT Cable/software & the INPA/NCSExpert software/cable - so I will definitely be doing registration myself whenever the time comes. If I didn't have the capability for DIY - I would pay the dealer to do it.


Everytime someone poses this question there are equal amounts of 'yays' & 'nays' on the subject. This subject has been hashed over ad-nauseum - basically, quit listening to the opinions of others & do what you feel is correct. If you don't have the $$, or want to spend the $$ on a BMW battery & registration then friggen don't

I can easily spend the same amount of $$ (or more) that the dealer charges for Bat Reg, in a long evening out @ a club with my wife/friends - which I'm sure is true for many others - but no one has a problem doing that, do they?

[Popsrcr]

Yeah, but that's fun!

[username604]

Registering the battery will reset the adapted conditions, like the idrive shutting off every 10 minutes to preserve the battery.
I changed mine a year ago, but bought a faulty cable. I never got around to buying another cable to register the battery, and the local bmw mechanics were confused when I asked them to register the battery. One quoted me $100, and what I asked what he was going to do, he basically told me he would hook up the car and clear any codes (WTF?!).

Register if you want, but there has not been proof that it is harmful not to register the battery. Personally, my battery has a 3 year warranty and costed me $100. If it dies within the 3 year warranty, cool -- i've gotten 4-6 years out of 2 batteries for the cheap $100 i paid.
If it lasts longer, 3 years is what the manufacturer expects the value of the battery to be worth, and that's fine by me.
Registering the battery would have to reduce the life of the battery by 40%+ in order justify the cost (assuming the battery you buy mysteriously has no warranty).

[KeepitClassy]

Originally Posted by Keepsitlegit

LMFAO!

I remember someone had their battery explode in the trunk because he failed to register it. I just got mines changed for $300 at my local BMW dealer.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Popsrcr

What I did waste money on was the $60 to click the button that says "new battery"
If it has a simple charging algorithm not based on load, it is less than useless. My trickle charger does more than that and costs considerably less.

I think the $60 to click the button is just a dealer charge.

Fact: Without the registration, the vehicle will charge the battery more aggressively than it would, if the battery is properly registered. That's not really open to debate. How much shorter the new battery will last, without registration, that is.

What is it you're looking for, some reassurance that it's going to be ok? Well, it will be. $60 is not something you should get too bent out of shape over.

[Ark10bimmer]

Can Someome point me in the direction of the DIY. Thanks to who ever helps.

[Snow King]

My 07 335i is now 6 years old and still on the original battery. Should I preemptively change it or wait for it to crap out? Is there a sensor/warning letting you know when to change it?

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by John 070

Fact: Without the registration, the vehicle will charge the battery more aggressively than it would, if the battery is properly registered. That's not really open to debate. How much shorter the new battery will last, without registration, that is.

What is it you're looking for, some reassurance that it's going to be ok? Well, it will be. $60 is not something you should get too bent out of shape over.

The vehicle is also likely to shut down accessories you might using while the engine is off because it thinks the same old battery is installed.

The cynics may think that it's just "dealer charge" but as I've said before, when you start poking around yourself with INPA there's quite a bit that went into this IBS system which is the basis for EfficientDynamics (which followed along later). Car manufacturers wouldn't invest all of the development in the car if it was just to collect money at the dealer for a button click.

If people are getting all bent out of shape over $60 being a waste at a dealer, they should have invested $40 in a cable and used free software to reset it themselves. Then they'd have the gear they needed in their toolbox to do all kinds of other work too.

[Surly73]

Originally Posted by Romanianbimmer

Can Someome point me in the direction of the DIY. Thanks to who ever helps.

Assuming you have some INPA/toolset/NCS skills, here's what I did to move from flooded to AGM and re-register:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...5&postcount=29

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Snow King

My 07 335i is now 6 years old and still on the original battery. Should I preemptively change it or wait for it to crap out? Is there a sensor/warning letting you know when to change it?

I am one to "share" my mistakes.

I did proactively change my battery at 6 yrs. I decided to pay the core charge ($15) and keep the old one.

I fully charged the old one, and then load tested it over and over--it was still good.

We have an aunt with a 2006 330i on the original battery, and it passes a load test.

I would say no need to change--you may see that in the winter or extreme summer, your accessories won't stay on as long as they should. But my advice is to load test any battery before replacing. Heck, it's what a shop would do before replacing a battery under warranty.

[JaysBlueE92]

expect some gremlins over time if you fail to register..anything from electronics to more sophisticated car operating systems. As others have said, it's best to register for the sake of the IBS issue, but as long as the battery is the same specs, their is no need to get an OEM battery.

I am pretty sure walmart sells a battery with oem specs and size is just a bit smaller than oem, but can fit in the trunk fine

[pj_rage]

I can't argue either way about the effects of registering, because I really don't know, but from an engineering standpoint, with the description of the IBS and the measurements it makes, it is definitely possible, and probable, that the system would adjust to a new battery without registering. The issue would be that it could take a while.

The values it stores are likely using a moving average of sorts, and, especially with the anticipation that the battery would last years and that new batteries would clear the settings, the averaging function is probably in no hurry to adjust to the new battery, and is instead more concerned with smoothing out irregularities. After a while with a new, unregistered battery (a year or so? -- could be a lot less, maybe a little more), it would probably be fully adjusted, but during that adjustment period, it would be (partially) treating your new battery like the old. I can't say for sure what effect that would have on the battery, charging system, or general electrical performance of the car. I would personally guess it isn't *that* big of a deal, but I would definitely recommend registering it, and when the time comes, I'll be registering mine.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by 1QuikWS6

You can use a BT cable to register a battery if the specs are the same as one you are replacing - but if the new battery is of different specs than the original, you will also need to code the new battery specs in - for that you need the special coding cable & INPA software

Not registering may lead to electrical 'gremlins' thru out the car with the new battery. The IBS (Intelligent Battery Sensor) is built in to the Positive battery cable, basically it's a 'smart' sensor that learns ongoing battery condition thru out it's life & directs charging rates accordingly.

If you do not register the new battery it still thinks it's working with the old battery and charging according to the conditions it has learned. So registering is like resetting any of the condition based sensors.

Some people are adament about cheaping out on a $50k car and disregarding the register step and using batteries of different specs. May cause problems, may not - your choice

Personally, if people can't afford to maintain a car in the proper way due to cost - then the car is too expensive for them to own to begin with - buy a friggen Kia

Not to flame here, but this is not correct about the location of the IBS. The IBS is built into the Negative cable. The Positive cable has the Battery Safety Terminal built into it. If you replace the battery yourself be careful when removing the negative battery cable.

Attached is the TIS procedure. This is BMW copyright material and is posted here without permission.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Popsrcr

[QUOTEOriginally Posted by 1QuikWS6 View Post]

If you go with that school of thought - then the Oil Change message should reset itself after you have changed the oil - after all, you drained out the old & put in new - it should know that right?Technically possible,sure. But it wouldn't be doing the same thing. There is nothing the computer currently measures in the oil to say it needs changing.It is simply a mileage timer that everyone here seems to ignore anyway.



I don't think what you're saying is what you quoted. It should have no need to "start anew" if it is measuring current values. If the current capacity is at one moment value A and the next Value Z, and it continues to monitor this, it is going to adjust charging appropriatly. You don't tell a battery charger when there is a new battery, it knows to charge or not based on what it gets back from the battery.

This is not correct. There is an oil condition sensor built into the oil level sensor. It electrically measures the capacitance of the oil to determine how contaminated the oil is. The measurement is one of the variables the algorithm uses to determine when the oil should be changed.

The oil level sensor does not measure the level of the oil when the engine is not running (it can detect if the level is adequate to start the engine), so it does not know when the sump is emptied and refilled, which is why you have to manually reset the oil life monitor.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

This is not correct. There is an oil condition sensor built into the oil level sensor. It electrically measures the capacitance of the oil to determine how contaminated the oil is. The measurement is one of the variables the algorithm uses to determine when the oil should be changed.

The oil level sensor does not measure the level of the oil when the engine is not running (it can detect if the level is adequate to start the engine), so it does not know when the sump is emptied and refilled, which is why you have to manually reset the oil life monitor.

Funny thing, back in 2010, when my N54 was stalling randomly, the BMW dealer said they found a faulty IBS sensor, I'm now good to go. It stalled on my way out of their parking lot--I was furious, went back, and the foreman came out to look at it as was cursing saying who decided it was the IBS sensor etc. Amazing how much at least 3 yrs. ago people blamed that device when they didn't know what was wrong.

[benzo23]

Originally Posted by Snow King

My 07 335i is now 6 years old and still on the original battery. Should I preemptively change it or wait for it to crap out? Is there a sensor/warning letting you know when to change it?

I would, My battery in my 06 at the time was literally fine one night then go to start it the next morning and was dead as a door nail, no warning nothing. Got a bmw battery and got it registered never a problem after that. If your car is 6 yrs old its on its way out its just a gamble of when and where youll be when it does. If you have the means now id just do it for piece of mind. Just my opinion

[Popsrcr]

Originally Posted by pj_rage

I can't argue either way about the effects of registering, because I really don't know, but from an engineering standpoint, with the description of the IBS and the measurements it makes, it is definitely possible, and probable, that the system would adjust to a new battery without registering. The issue would be that it could take a while.

The values it stores are likely using a moving average of sorts, and, especially with the anticipation that the battery would last years and that new batteries would clear the settings, the averaging function is probably in no hurry to adjust to the new battery, and is instead more concerned with smoothing out irregularities. After a while with a new, unregistered battery (a year or so? -- could be a lot less, maybe a little more), it would probably be fully adjusted, but during that adjustment period, it would be (partially) treating your new battery like the old. I can't say for sure what effect that would have on the battery, charging system, or general electrical performance of the car. I would personally guess it isn't *that* big of a deal, but I would definitely recommend registering it, and when the time comes, I'll be registering mine.

This I believe 100%. It would take time. How long? I dunno. Damage the battery? Kinda doubt it. I just don't believe it to be a big deal. I happened to be going to the dealer for something else, so figured I'd get it done. Was worth it to me because they threw in some other programming for me while it was in.

I may not believe in registering the battery, but I do believe in a decent relationship with any shop I go to.

[Popsrcr]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

This is not correct. There is an oil condition sensor built into the oil level sensor. It electrically measures the capacitance of the oil to determine how contaminated the oil is. The measurement is one of the variables the algorithm uses to determine when the oil should be changed.

The oil level sensor does not measure the level of the oil when the engine is not running (it can detect if the level is adequate to start the engine), so it does not know when the sump is emptied and refilled, which is why you have to manually reset the oil life monitor.

I would not trust it. I guess the trick would be to run the oil until it says it needs to be changed and send it out. Since the interval resets to 15k, you would expect that to change over time...not match the odo. I just changed my oil, so I will watch this. Would be interesting as I've never heard of this.

I still wish I had a dipstick.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Popsrcr

I would not trust it. I guess the trick would be to run the oil until it says it needs to be changed and send it out. Since the interval resets to 15k, you would expect that to change over time...not match the odo. I just changed my oil, so I will watch this. Would be interesting as I've never heard of this.

I still wish I had a dipstick.

You should get the Bentley service manual for the E90; it provides a lot of information about the car that is not published elsewhere. It has a very detailed description on how the oil level/quality sensor works.

BMWs have been running extended OCIs (i.e. mileage beyond the Federally mandated 7,500 miles under normal operating conditions for cars) for over 25 years. Long OCIs in BMWs is nothing new.

My '06 325i has 214,000 running an average 17,500 mile OCI. It works.