[ricekikr]

the community is aryt, they do have a membership fee tho, $50. never joined heheh.. i get my stuf from e90post!:rocks:

three tracks. subic, batangas and carmona. subic and batangas 3hours drive from manila, carmona 1.5hours. carmona is a very small track, real small.. drag racing is a lot more common here, not bmw crowd, since its cheaper and usually is only a 30min drive.

i dont track my cars, so i really dont know if the tracks are ok.. used to drag tho 7 years ago, NA civic high 13s - low 14s, which was pretty quick way back considerin i wasnt on slicks, full interior with subs, organic clutch and only used oem parts, mostly junkyard hehehh. now streetable civics do 11s-12s

edit: yeah i know, civic boo.. but i do miss my civic

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by astris

Ah, this makes sense as you are coming from the american tuner world. That type of flash does not exist for the most part in the german tuning world.

I'll have to argue your evolution of ecu tuning as well since piggiebacks have never really existed in the Audi scene.

Why the simple loader device hasn't surfaced in the german tuning scene, I don't know.

I would disagree, and it may depend on semantics, but there are flash loaders for the German scene. As mentioned later the Conforti unit for BMW and then various vendors have units for Audi including REVO and APR:

http://www.goapr.com/Audi/products/ecu_upgrade_s4.html

The APR EMCS certainly allows for home updates to programs (downloaded from APR) as well as changing programs essentially on the fly. While this is not the same as some of the tools available for GM vehicles, most notably LS1Edit (which I would love to have access to for any vehicle I have owned), which allow you to program your own ECU. There are still options, albeit expensive ones.

All of the aftermarket companies that provide programs for Audi and others do not always create their own editing software, they often use available tools. Through some research one can acquire Bosch software for Audi vehicles. And after further research you can determine which memory locations handle what functions. It isn't as easy and cost effective as just buying a program or getting a custom tune from someone who has the tools; but it is still an option for a die hard.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by astris

There are other completations to that. ECU's vary from year to year. Most flashes have to be year and transmission specific. Not to mention expensive, much more expensive than it would be worth.

No too difficult but it can even change mid-year. The Audi world handled that fine with the B5 S4. The A box was the first, later an M box, etc. You just have to read the label on the ECU and get the correct one. This is not the first time this has been done.

For example, many years ago I purchased an ECU with the GIAC X-Chip from AWE for a total of $1200. $600 for the ECU and $600 for the program. We will have to wait and see what becomes available and what the prices are to make a final determination.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by schneid4323

To be honest with you.... piggy backs are the way to go on these cars. I dont feel like elaborating but it works out better.

I would say that it will take time to know for sure. I suspect that five years from now when many warranties are up anyway, the tide may change...

[RichP]

The TerryTuner is much more competition to the TT, than the PROceed; all depends on what you want, for what price. I think Shiv's solution is more elegant, well thought out, and is going to yield better results overall.

Again, my real question is how, if at all, this is different than the turbo tuner. Has anyone ever diassembled a turbo tuner and see whats inside?

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by RichP

Again, my real question is how, if at all, this is different than the turbo tuner. Has anyone ever diassembled a turbo tuner and see whats inside?

I suspect that the TT is seriously potted making it more difficult to see what is inside. That said, there is probably more than just two resistors unless the marketing material is bogus; it does mention a high temp circuit, etc.

But in the end, since it is intercepting only the MAF signal, it cannot be doing much more. There is only one signal it modifies, pretty plain and simple from there. Now it could be doing it in a more sophisticated manner such as nonlinearly and have other built in protection. But I am still skeptical about the costs involved when Split Second has adjustable signal conditioners for less.

[RichP]

Originally Posted by scalbert

I suspect that the TT is seriously potted making it more difficult to see what is inside. That said, there is probably more than just two resistors unless the marketing material is bogus; it does mention a high temp circuit, etc.

But in the end, since it is intercepting only the MAF signal, it cannot be doing much more. There is only one signal it modifies, pretty plain and simple from there. Now it could be doing it in a more sophisticated manner such as nonlinearly and have other built in protection. But I am still skeptical about the costs involved when Split Second has adjustable signal conditioners for less.

I agree, hence my curiosity. It is only dealing with the same signals as the ******. I would hope at least the method of signal conditioning is more elegant...but...

[astris]

Originally Posted by scalbert

I would disagree, and it may depend on semantics, but there are flash loaders for the German scene. As mentioned later the Conforti unit for BMW and then various vendors have units for Audi including REVO and APR:

http://www.goapr.com/Audi/products/ecu_upgrade_s4.html

The APR EMCS certainly allows for home updates to programs (downloaded from APR) as well as changing programs essentially on the fly. While this is not the same as some of the tools available for GM vehicles, most notably LS1Edit (which I would love to have access to for any vehicle I have owned), which allow you to program your own ECU. There are still options, albeit expensive ones.

All of the aftermarket companies that provide programs for Audi and others do not always create their own editing software, they often use available tools. Through some research one can acquire Bosch software for Audi vehicles. And after further research you can determine which memory locations handle what functions. It isn't as easy and cost effective as just buying a program or getting a custom tune from someone who has the tools; but it is still an option for a die hard.

There are definitely flash loaders available, that was not my point. I was just stating you can't purchase a hand held device that flashes software that you can resell. The flash is done at the vendors location and only there. Apr allows for map changing via the turn stock, giac uses the flash loader. Neither flash can be resold or put on another car.

There is also lemmingwinks which can be used for a little further tweaking.

Anyway, my point being there is no complete flash that can be purchased in a handheld (such as turbo tuner) that can be removed and resold for use on another vehicle. A piggieback can.

If that was possible with a flash I would buy one device, open up shop, and start flashing. :P

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by scalbert

I suspect that the TT is seriously potted making it more difficult to see what is inside. That said, there is probably more than just two resistors unless the marketing material is bogus; it does mention a high temp circuit, etc.

But in the end, since it is intercepting only the MAF signal, it cannot be doing much more. There is only one signal it modifies, pretty plain and simple from there. Now it could be doing it in a more sophisticated manner such as nonlinearly and have other built in protection. But I am still skeptical about the costs involved when Split Second has adjustable signal conditioners for less.

My theory is that there is a thermister inside the tt. So when the case itself gets really hot, it probably throws r2 to a higher value reducing the boost level. I think the iat is a pass through wire. I wouldn't mind opening one up if someone cared to donate one to me.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by astris

There are definitely flash loaders available, that was not my point. I was just stating you can't purchase a hand held device that flashes software that you can resell. The flash is done at the vendors location and only there. Apr allows for map changing via the turn stock, giac uses the flash loader. Neither flash can be resold or put on another car.

There is also lemmingwinks which can be used for a little further tweaking.

Anyway, my point being there is no complete flash that can be purchased in a handheld (such as turbo tuner) that can be removed and resold for use on another vehicle. A piggieback can.

If that was possible with a flash I would buy one device, open up shop, and start flashing. :P

They can lock it to the vin. They burn the vin to the flash chip in the device before sending, or in the software key. Mark my words, there will be a loader within a year.

[astris]

Originally Posted by scalbert

No too difficult but it can even change mid-year. The Audi world handled that fine with the B5 S4. The A box was the first, later an M box, etc. You just have to read the label on the ECU and get the correct one. This is not the first time this has been done.

For example, many years ago I purchased an ECU with the GIAC X-Chip from AWE for a total of $1200. $600 for the ECU and $600 for the program. We will have to wait and see what becomes available and what the prices are to make a final determination.

Well, all that pretty much stopped with the b5 a4/s4. That did not really go on at all with the b6 and b7. A flash was a sunk cost. Even when b6 people sell off used big turbo kits, they never really include the ecu.

[astris]

Originally Posted by Terry335

They can lock it to the vin. They burn the vin to the flash chip in the device before sending, or in the software key. Mark my words, there will be a loader within a year.

lol, thats exactly my point. a flash will be vin specific, thus no reselling a used flash. i.e. a sunk cost.

I would say a flash should be available within 1 year of its availability to the public. Hell, certain audi tuners start their work on flashes prior to the vehicles release.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by astris

lol, thats exactly my point. a flash will be vin specific, thus no reselling a used flash. i.e. a sunk cost.

Here is how the hypertech programmer works. It comes unlocked. You load it in to a car, and during the load it locks to the vin so it can't be loaded in any other car. When you unload the program, it unlocks again for resale.

[astris]

Originally Posted by Terry335

Here is how the hypertech programmer works. It comes unlocked. You load it in to a car, and during the load it locks to the vin so it can't be loaded in any other car. When you unload the program, it unlocks again for resale.

I remember hypertech. My grandpa had it on a z28. I like the idea of how the locking and unlocking works. I'm all for it. Hopefully something like that will surface. I do know the german tuners do not do this... at least yet. All done via serial port at the vendor or you have to ship the ecu.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by astris

I remember hypertech. My grandpa had it on a z28. I like the idea of how the locking and unlocking works. I'm all for it. Hopefully something like that will surface. I do know the german tuners do not do this... at least yet. All done via serial port at the vendor or you have to ship the ecu.

Ahhh.. Maybe we should get a team of e90 software guys together to crack the code.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by astris

There are definitely flash loaders available, that was not my point. I was just stating you can't purchase a hand held device that flashes software that you can resell. The flash is done at the vendors location and only there. Apr allows for map changing via the turn stock, giac uses the flash loader. Neither flash can be resold or put on another car.

There is also lemmingwinks which can be used for a little further tweaking.

Anyway, my point being there is no complete flash that can be purchased in a handheld (such as turbo tuner) that can be removed and resold for use on another vehicle. A piggieback can.

If that was possible with a flash I would buy one device, open up shop, and start flashing. :P

I see your point...

And to the Lemmiwinks, that was also a nifty tool. My final numbers were 115% Increasing Loads, +5% Primary, +2 Degree Timing and +100 RPM Idle Offset.

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by astris

Well, all that pretty much stopped with the b5 a4/s4. That did not really go on at all with the b6 and b7. A flash was a sunk cost. Even when b6 people sell off used big turbo kits, they never really include the ecu.

The martket may not have demanded it enough to warrant the typical US tuners to provide a flashable system. Or maybe it wasn't cost effective for them; it may not have been in their interest. However, I beleive REVO continued to support a flashable system with the B6 and B7:

http://www.revotechnik.com/

In the end, it may be a market limitation. While I enjoyed GIAC products, I suspect Hypertech sells a significantly greater number.

[astris]

Originally Posted by scalbert

The martket may not have demanded it enough to warrant the typical US tuners to provide a flashable system. Or maybe it wasn't cost effective for them; it may not have been in their interest. However, I beleive REVO continued to support a flashable system with the B6 and B7:

http://www.revotechnik.com/

In the end, it may be a market limitation. While I enjoyed GIAC products, I suspect Hypertech sells a significantly greater number.

I think you just misinterpreted my post or my post was clear as mud, lol.

The demand for flashes was/is very strong (well relatively speaking) for the B6 and B7. There is just no complete ecu swapping like what was common with the B5s. I would actually say now the demand for B6/B7 flashes outweighs the demand for all b5 flashes these days since the b5 is getting on in its years. Though, all these flashes are uploaded exclusively via the vendors.

You are correct about there not being enough demand in the audi scene for the typical U.S. tuners like Hypertech or Superchips to create a flash device like Terry is describing. Though, maybe that will change since there is a higher demand for BMW tuning, especially the 335.

BTW, I was in the Audi scene for years. Only over the last few months have I been in the BMW camp with my M3. All these "chip" and bov questions and tuner wars on the 335 boards remind me of the early days on the B6 A4 forum. That's not exactly a good thing, but I guess it's all new to many people and they have to learn somewhere.

[nj1266]

I agree with Terry that a flash is MUCH better than a piggyback. In the Evo community we whe have two dates: BECUflash and AECUflash. That is BEFORE Ecuflash and AFTER Ecuflash.

Ecuflash is the FREE software that we use to flash the ECU. We simply buy the flashing cable (Tactrix) for $90 and we are set to tune our ECU with a lap top.

Before Ecuflash a lot of people used a piggyback including myself. I had an Xede and liked it until I used Ecuflash. Ecuflash gave me more consistent results and more power. I can modify ANY parameter I want with the flash, something that the Xede could not do.

People are ditching their piggybacks left and right. The price of an Xede has fallen so badly that you cannot even sell it for $250. New an Xede used to sell for $750. If the BMW 335i ever gets such a cheap and effective alternative to the Proceed/Xede, then the prcie of the Proceed/Xede will plummet.

The nice thing about the Evo Ecu is that it is not encrypted from the factory. BMW seems to encrypt their so rigorously that breaking inot the ECU is like breaking into Fort Knox.

[NaViT]

has anyone tried this yet? lol i need to see whos the first one to try it

[Carlito12]

Originally Posted by NaViT

has anyone tried this yet? lol i need to see whos the first one to try it

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63509

Who Else ? Terry, ofcourse...

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by RichP

Has anyone ever diassembled a turbo tuner and see whats inside?

There is a picture of a disassembled TT on this site. I've seen it, i think Shiv posted it, I know he at least replied to the picture.