[Go Horns!]

Does anyone know what the max camber gain is for M3 control arms verses M3 arms plus Dinan camber plates?

Car is a daily driver, so don't want to deal with adjustable camber plates; big concern is NVH.

If you have a link, that is good enough for me.

[SUPAN]

Camber plates will have more camber to be adjusted.

Ground control got street plates and i tried that ... very solid feel and no NVM

[titium]

I'm at -1.9 with just dinan plates lowered on swift spec r springs.

-2.4 should be attainable with m3 arms

Compared to stock, M3 arms by themselves add about -0.7

Compared to stock, Dinan plates by themselves add about -0.7

Any other variables result in a slighter longer equation.

[Go Horns!]

I decided on not using the plates. Just going to pull the alignment pins. I'll report back once everything gets installed and I get the alignment done. Will not be until mid-May.

[juld0zer]

The M3 lower arms (banana arms) add a noticeable (read: huge) amount of NVH alone. I took mine out but kept the M3 caster arms (the long ones). Depends on your tolerance, everyone has different taste

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

The M3 lower arms (banana arms) add a noticeable (read: huge) amount of NVH alone. I took mine out but kept the M3 caster arms (the long ones). Depends on your tolerance, everyone has different taste

What tires were using when you made the swap?

[juld0zer]

Michelin PSS. It's not the tyres. It's the inner ball joint of the M3 lower arm which replaces the rubber bushing of the stock part. You'll notice it most when you drive over a sharp ridge in the road or a horizontal roadway joiner, whenever both wheels hit the ridge at the same time.

M cars have a subframe reinforcement plate that may play a role in reducing the harshness by a tiny bit, but driving a 1M back to back with my car and you can tell it's not much different.

I do have Kmac camber plates which may add to the harshness but i swapped back the original lower arms and there was a huge difference in day to day comfort

[titium]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

The M3 lower arms (banana arms) add a noticeable (read: huge) amount of NVH alone. I took mine out but kept the M3 caster arms (the long ones). Depends on your tolerance, everyone has different taste

interesting this mod has been done to death, and this is the first time I've read about the increase in nvh being significant.

I've driven a car with the m3 arms back to back against mine without m3 arms and noticed a tiny bit of extra nvh but nothing significant or worth worrying about :

[feuer]

Originally Posted by titium

interesting this mod has been done to death, and this is the first time I've read about the increase in nvh being significant.

I've driven a car with the m3 arms back to back against mine without m3 arms and noticed a tiny bit of extra nvh but nothing significant or worth worrying about :

Did both cars had:
-same springs
-same dampers
-same tires (make, model and size)
I assume no which makes the compassion somewhat invalid.
At the shop where I frequent few customers had complained a lot from added NVH from m3 arms.
Some even wanted to de-mod.
Let's be realistic, is not only that all people don't have equal tolerance, the m3 has different damper valving and non RFT, so the whole suspension is tuned differently.
Add M3 arms to stock non m dampers and RTF and you end up with horrendous ride.

[titium]

Originally Posted by feuer

Add M3 arms to stock non m dampers and RTF and you end up with horrendous ride.

lol no shit! Take out any factory compliance with the rft and the ride is terrible.

Not disagreeing and trying to say that they don't add nvh I just think in this case top mount adjustable camber plates amplified the nvh considerably.

This is the main reason I didn't go with adjustable camber plates, it's well documented they a significant amount of nvh.

[juld0zer]

My camber plates are just the entry level 'street spec' version but im sure the poly bush is firmer than a stock rubber one. By how much? Kmac claims they are very similar. Either way, they are not rock hard. The race or heavy duty ones have no urethane. Those are the noisy and harsh ones to avoid if you prefer a sporty yet bearable daily ride.

The best way i can describe the change in laymans terms is imagine driving over a big pothole with flat (non-RFT) tyres.

[6ixSpd]

FYI, pulling the alignment pin barely gets you to -1.0 on stock non-M arms. Pretty sad for a BMW...

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

FYI, pulling the alignment pin barely gets you to -1.0 on stock non-M arms. Pretty sad for a BMW...

More like barely -0.5 w/ the pin pulled, if that. It's pathetic. Most shopping carts have more negative camber than this from the factory...

I gotta get Dinan plates, or something, as my next mod. I can't stand approaching a relatively tame on-ramp and feeling the entire front end want to stand straight up and push. It's terrible.

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by FCobra94

More like barely -0.5 w/ the pin pulled, if that. It's pathetic. Most shopping carts have more negative camber than this from the factory...

I gotta get Dinan plates, or something, as my next mod. I can't stand approaching a relatively tame on-ramp and feeling the entire front end want to stand straight up and push. It's terrible.

Amen! I thought something was bent in my suspension when the alignment shop told me that's the max negative it would go. Couldn't believe it. I'm debating doing M3 lower arms or just camber plates. I hate the idea of taking apart the strut assembly again so I'll likely just get the arms. New bushings in those would also be nice on my 130k mile car...

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

Michelin PSS. It's not the tyres. It's the inner ball joint of the M3 lower arm which replaces the rubber bushing of the stock part. You'll notice it most when you drive over a sharp ridge in the road or a horizontal roadway joiner, whenever both wheels hit the ridge at the same time.

M cars have a subframe reinforcement plate that may play a role in reducing the harshness by a tiny bit, but driving a 1M back to back with my car and you can tell it's not much different.

I do have Kmac camber plates which may add to the harshness but i swapped back the original lower arms and there was a huge difference in day to day comfort

Interesting data point from your experience. I knew the M subframe was different, but besides the valving I'm scratching my head on what could make the M set up softer other than shock valving and the camber plates. My old GC camber plates seemed to ride pretty well with cool overs and PSS. It was not soft, but certainly wasn't unacceptable. Pretty subjective stuff tho, so hmmmm.

Anyway, appreciate the feedback!

[juld0zer]

If we ever get a 1M or M3 traded in I will take off the subframe reinforcement plate and go for a drive. Then refit it and test it again. I almost bought those ebay subframe braces but for unknown results, buying a pair of Lemforder replacement non M lower arms was a better option. I also explored the possibility of retrofitting the reinforcement plate to our standard subframe but I'd need to weld nuts to the subframe to make it work. The holes are there, sort of. If anything, the M subframe is more related to the E88 subframe which has two reinforcement bars at the front and another two at the rear.

If that trade in ever happens I will report back

[matteblue3er]

Originally Posted by titium

I'm at -1.9 with just dinan plates lowered on swift spec r springs.

-2.4 should be attainable with m3 arms

I'm surprised you don't have more negative camber. How much wheel gap do you have?

I'm at -3 front with dinan plates and I'm xdrive. I have no wheel gap. My fender sits right above the tops of my tires.

[tlow98]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

If we ever get a 1M or M3 traded in I will take off the subframe reinforcement plate and go for a drive. Then refit it and test it again. I almost bought those ebay subframe braces but for unknown results, buying a pair of Lemforder replacement non M lower arms was a better option. I also explored the possibility of retrofitting the reinforcement plate to our standard subframe but I'd need to weld nuts to the subframe to make it work. The holes are there, sort of. If anything, the M subframe is more related to the E88 subframe which has two reinforcement bars at the front and another two at the rear.

If that trade in ever happens I will report back

[ornicar]

Originally Posted by juld0zer

If we ever get a 1M or M3 traded in I will take off the subframe reinforcement plate and go for a drive. Then refit it and test it again. I almost bought those ebay subframe braces but for unknown results, buying a pair of Lemforder replacement non M lower arms was a better option. I also explored the possibility of retrofitting the reinforcement plate to our standard subframe but I'd need to weld nuts to the subframe to make it work. The holes are there, sort of. If anything, the M subframe is more related to the E88 subframe which has two reinforcement bars at the front and another two at the rear.

If that trade in ever happens I will report back

Hi, any update about subframe reinforcement???