[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by Orb

A bit off topic isn't this ^^^? Also, you comments on harmonics and compliance in the suspension are a bit left field. I spent a lot time recently looking into this so I willing to answer question of what I know today and how this works as a system.

The issue I was thinking about was using parts from the M3. I was wondering out loud if it was reasonable to consider half shafts and some of the drivetrain components from the M3 for those 335s with M3-like power.

A Torsen-type LSD can have a bit of side to side power-wobble in some conditions that I think might benefit from the increased stiffness provided by the M3 bushings.

We would love to hear everything that you have learned about the suspension. This is very useful stuff that many of us really appreciate.

[luckyu]

I love this thread. I apologize if this has been addressed already---I didn't see it---but what about using the M3's springs, shocks (and mounts), and sways, along with the M3 links and bushings? Maybe that's the package you were referring to in some of your posts, Stressdoc? If it was I'm sorry for missing it.

If it all fits, it seems like the only issues would be that the M3 is a little heavier, and whether the structure can handle the stress.

I'm just looking for the ultimate road car, and it seems like having a suspension designed by M would be great. I guess I'm surprised there isn't more interest in that option. (I realize Orb is seeking to go beyond the M3 for track performance. I understand what he's doing.)

[Fraggy]

Originally Posted by luckyu

I love this thread. I apologize if this has been addressed already---I didn't see it---but what about using the M3's springs, shocks (and mounts), and sways, along with the M3 links and bushings? Maybe that's the package you were referring to in some of your posts, Stressdoc? If it was I'm sorry for missing it.

If it all fits, it seems like the only issues would be that the M3 is a little heavier, and whether the structure can handle the stress.

I'm just looking for the ultimate road car, and it seems like having a suspension designed by M would be great. I guess I'm surprised there isn't more interest in that option. (I realize Orb is seeking to go beyond the M3 for track performance. I understand what he's doing.)

I think its all do-able except the sways. I think I read somewhere they have a different shape due to the LSD. I tried to buy a set of M3 shocks and springs but the seller never got back to me so I got Performance kit instead.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by Fraggy

I think its all do-able except the sways. I think I read somewhere they have a different shape due to the LSD. I tried to buy a set of M3 shocks and springs but the seller never got back to me so I got Performance kit instead.

You have ti reversed. The sways will fit.
The rear M3 shocks will not fit the 335 and vice versa.

The first picture is the 335 shock, and the second is the M3 shock.
Look at the mounting at the bottom of the shock.

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by luckyu

I love this thread. I apologize if this has been addressed already---I didn't see it---but what about using the M3's springs, shocks (and mounts), and sways, along with the M3 links and bushings? Maybe that's the package you were referring to in some of your posts, Stressdoc? If it was I'm sorry for missing it.

If it all fits, it seems like the only issues would be that the M3 is a little heavier, and whether the structure can handle the stress.

I'm just looking for the ultimate road car, and it seems like having a suspension designed by M would be great. I guess I'm surprised there isn't more interest in that option. (I realize Orb is seeking to go beyond the M3 for track performance. I understand what he's doing.)

IMO there is nothing special about the M3 springs & dampers. The BMW Performance kit is a great deal. The Bilstein EDC PSS10 system is equivalent to the M3 EDC system. The part swaps that Orb and Harold have pioneered provide most of the important upgrades.

There are a few items on the rear suspension/axle set up of the M3 that make swaps difficult (e.g., see Mr. 5's note above). It is possible to swap out the whole subframe, differential, hubs, etc., but wow that would be costly for minimal benefits.

[Fraggy]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

You have ti reversed. The sways will fit.
The rear M3 shocks will not fit the 335 and vice versa.

Ooops, thanks for catching that

[Hunter399]

Just placed my order with Tischer

Cant wait!!!

[Mooreski]

I'm watching this with great interest and about to head down to my dealer to see how much it would cost for them to do the labor and alignment. But first, let me throw in a noob question:

Doing this swap increases camber by ~ -0.75 degrees, right? How much will that impact tire wear? It seems like a very small difference in how the tire would set on the road, but if it's enough to change the handling, it seems like it would be enough to change the tire wear.

I'd like better handling, but not if it's going to chew the hell out of my tires!

[luckyu]

Originally Posted by Mooreski

Doing this swap increases camber by ~ -0.75 degrees, right? How much will that impact tire wear? It seems like a very small difference in how the tire would set on the road, but if it's enough to change the handling, it seems like it would be enough to change the tire wear.

On a sport-package E90, the camber spec interval in front is -0.2 to -0.9 degrees. Depending on differences among individual cars, you might expect to end up with about -1.5, which is 0.6 degree out of spec. It doesn't seem like a big deal. It definitely won't chew up your tires. I don't know exactly how much faster they will wear. But rear tires tend to wear out faster anyway and it's dodgy to replace the rears while using the old front tires. So in practice it's no difference, I think?

By the way, the better handling doesn't come from the increased camber; it comes from the stiffer bushings that control the front wheel better. When you're in a turn, the soft bushings give up, the front wheel toes out causing understeer, and the car feels like a Camry.

If you're still concerned about the camber change, you can do the tension struts only, and skip the wishbones for now. And let us know your experience after the change! I hope to get mine done next week. HNY.

[luckyu]

Thanks for the answers on the full M3 suspension swap. Sorry for revisiting a question that obviously has been explored before.

Originally Posted by stressdoc

There are a few items on the rear suspension/axle set up of the M3 that make swaps difficult (e.g., see Mr. 5's note above). It is possible to swap out the whole subframe, differential, hubs, etc., but wow that would be costly for minimal benefits.

Agree completely.

[stressdoc]

Originally Posted by Mooreski

I'm watching this with great interest and about to head down to my dealer to see how much it would cost for them to do the labor and alignment. But first, let me throw in a noob question:

Doing this swap increases camber by ~ -0.75 degrees, right? How much will that impact tire wear? It seems like a very small difference in how the tire would set on the road, but if it's enough to change the handling, it seems like it would be enough to change the tire wear.

I'd like better handling, but not if it's going to chew the hell out of my tires!

You may wish to negotiate the labor costs with them; the "book" hours are inflated IMO. The nice thing about getting the dealer to do the work is that you can get the BMW Performance sticker that indicates these modifications have been done and are logged into your car's database.

The springs & shocks are about 1 hour per wheel. The rear sway is a minimum of 1 hour if they really know what they are doing. The tension rods etc. are not a big deal. The rear subframe bushings are.

[Fraggy]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

You may wish to negotiate the labor costs with them; the "book" hours are inflated IMO. The nice thing about getting the dealer to do the work is that you can get the BMW Performance sticker that indicates these modifications have been done and are logged into your car's database.

The springs & shocks are about 1 hour per wheel. The rear sway is a minimum of 1 hour if they really know what they are doing. The tension rods etc. are not a big deal. The rear subframe bushings are.

The book time at my dealer for rear bar is 6 hours Absolutely absurd.

[Mooreski]

They just quoted me 3 hours of labor to do the front wishbones and tension links at a little over $100/hour plus $249 for an alignment... Seems a bit high to me. I wasn't talking to the SA I've worked with in the past, I might have to give him a jingle.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by Mooreski

I'm watching this with great interest and about to head down to my dealer to see how much it would cost for them to do the labor and alignment. But first, let me throw in a noob question:

Doing this swap increases camber by ~ -0.75 degrees, right? How much will that impact tire wear? It seems like a very small difference in how the tire would set on the road, but if it's enough to change the handling, it seems like it would be enough to change the tire wear.

I'd like better handling, but not if it's going to chew the hell out of my tires!

-0.75 is not going to increase your tire wear much.

[HP Autosport]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

You may wish to negotiate the labor costs with them; the "book" hours are inflated IMO. The nice thing about getting the dealer to do the work is that you can get the BMW Performance sticker that indicates these modifications have been done and are logged into your car's database.

The springs & shocks are about 1 hour per wheel. The rear sway is a minimum of 1 hour if they really know what they are doing. The tension rods etc. are not a big deal. The rear subframe bushings are.

Book hours are reasonable. Book hours are simply a guide, you will notice most dealers and independents will charge over book time.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by HP Autowerks

Book hours are reasonable. Book hours are simply a guide, you will notice most dealers and independents will charge over book time.

So true.
It's like they start charging the labor once you drive into the parking lot to when you leave the parking lot.

[MuchMoore]

It looks like the 20mm M3 rear sway bar is a direct fit, can anyone confirm or deny this?

[stressdoc]

Shops that do great work at reasonable prices in the midwest include Metric Mechanics (Richland, MO), and Koala Motorsports (Cleveland, OH). For example, they have quoted me install prices that are significantly less than the BMW book hours. There should be some good shops in Chicago. BMWCCA can be a good resource for finding people and shops.

[Mr. 5]

Originally Posted by ZHP DREI

It looks like the 20mm M3 rear sway bar is a direct fit, can anyone confirm or deny this?

Confirmed.

[MuchMoore]

Originally Posted by Mr. 5

Confirmed.

Does this look correct as far as the parts to order?

STABILIZER, REAR D=20MM
Qty.1 33552283655

RUBBER BUSHING, ANTIROLL BAR, BOTTOM
Qty.2(realoem says1 , but I think it should be 2) 33552283709

RUBBER BUSHING, ANTIROLL BAR, TOP
Qty.2(realoem says1 , but I think it should be 2) 33552283710

STABILIZER SUPPORT
Qty.2 33552283714

FILLISTER-HEAD SCREW
Qty. 4 07119906077

STABILIZER LINK 2 33556764428
(Same part number as 335)

HEX BOLT WITH WASHER M8X45-8.8-ZNS3 2 07119903931
(Same part number as 335)

HEXAGON NUT WITH COLLAR M10-10 ZNS3 2 10/2007 33326768884
(Same part number as 335)

[crqflier]

Originally Posted by stressdoc

... The nice thing about getting the dealer to do the work is that you can get the BMW Performance sticker that indicates these modifications have been done and are logged into your car's database.

After reading a pile of threads on this topic, I'm getting the BMW P suspension put on at the dealer next week. Mind explaining the sticker? Is this in case of a warranty/mod debate later down the road, or? Thanks.

[stressdoc]

Check out the SIB for install from the Tischer site. The last page has the info on the sticker and the package being logged into the database.