[rader1]

This is something I've been wondering for a while and I don't know if I just missed it or what, but how the vishnu single turbo setup work where the others have failed?

My understanding of the major why the other singles have failed is the fact that the N54 was designed as a bi-turbo and going to a single downpipe really messes with the DME when it attempts to altar/adjust fueling in bank 1 and the O2 sensors do not see what is expected(kind of like getting the O2 sensors mixed up when installing DPs.) So how does vishnu deal with this? The single turbo uses a divorced downpipe, but it's just split off a single downpipe, so how does this help? Or is the PROcede just feeding the DME the info it wants to see?


I know I could've asked this in the vishnu threads, but sometimes stuff like this gets overlooked and never answered. Besides, I think this is a fairly important question.

[vasillalov]

What does every single piggie-back do when it talks to the DME?... It lies! Its all lies!

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

It works!

[rader1]

Then what's the point of the divorced DP? Since the PROcede just tells the DME whatever it wants, why go through the hassle of using that downpipe?

[nafoo]

Originally Posted by rader1

Then what's the point of the divorced DP? Since the PROcede just tells the DME whatever it wants, why go through the hassle of using that downpipe?

That sounds like a question for HPF, since they ran into that problem.

From my limited reading, the Procede is not able to make the DME do everything it wants and single DP is one of those things.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by rader1

Then what's the point of the divorced DP? Since the PROcede just tells the DME whatever it wants, why go through the hassle of using that downpipe?

Because this is not a twin scroll turbo, that's why!

Edit: Shiv will most probably provide you a better answer than this! Have no fear, he'll be here shortly, conducting business as usual!

[Fundahl]

Guys come on. Just read through some of the posts.

Vishnu succeeded because they found a way to keep the primary O2 sensors in their proper banks. They did this by mounting them in the exhaust manifold before the collector, each in their respective cylinder bank.

The divorced down-pipe has nothing to do with this. It is simply to make this kit compatible with the exhausts that are currently available.

HPF messed up because they didn't really think about it and put both the O2 sensors on the same down-pipe, which confused the DME on which bank was which and caused A/F Ratio instability. THAT is why their kit is delayed until new manifold design.

Terry with Burger Motorsports will also be releasing a board to control a single turbo kit when the time is right.

Congrats to Shiv for paving the way.

[bryce]

Originally Posted by Fundahl

Guys come on. Just read through some of the posts.

Vishnu succeeded because they found a way to keep the primary O2 sensors in their proper banks. They did this by mounting them in the exhaust manifold before the collector, each in their respective cylinder bank.

The divorced down-pipe has nothing to do with this. It is simply to make this kit comparable with the exhausts that are currently available.

HPF messed up because they didn't really think about it and put both the O2 on the same down-pipe, which confused the DME on which bank was which and caused A/F Ratio instability. THAT is why their kit is delayed until new manifold design.

Terry with Burger Motorsports will also be releasing a board to control a single turbo kit when the time is right.

Congrats to Shiv for paving the way.

the primary o2 sensors are on the turbo manifold, each still reading bank 1 (cyl 1-3) and bank 2 (cyl 4-6) independantly.

the divorced downpipe is so that it works with all 335i exhausts. i still think a single 3.5" midpipe would be better on the vishnu setup, without having a divorced downpipe.


no surprise terry is copying vishnu, again

[Fundahl]

Originally Posted by bryce

no surprise terry is copying vishnu, again

Terry is not copying Vishnu. There are requests from other manufacturers to have a tuning solution for new hardware.

Terry expands his products based on customer demand. He has no intentions of providing this solution until there is proper hardware and demand.

I don't see how that is copying. They don't even use the same board. Shiv's is a Haltech with some custom hardware and software. Terry I believe designed his own little control board and got it produced.

They are each awesome dudes, no reason to start a "tuner war" when everything is "legit".

[bryce]

Originally Posted by Fundahl

Terry is not copying Vishnu. There are requests from other manufacturers to have a tuning solution for new hardware.

Terry expands his products based on customer demand. He has no intentions of providing this solution until there is proper hardware and demand.

I don't see how that is copying. They don't even use the same board. Shiv's is a Haltech with some custom hardware and software. Terry I believe designed his own little control board and got it produced.

They are each awesome dudes, no reason to start a "tuner war" when everything is "legit".

not trying to start a tuning war. just pointing out the facts. auto-tuning, can-bus integration, on-the-fly map switching, command center, in-dash boost gauges, etc. all were procede innovations on the n54. where do you think bms got the ideas?

[blisstik]

Just wondering why can't a piggie log timing cylinders 2 through 6?

[JDLM]

really enjoy how everything gets turned into a tuner war on here

[bryce]

Originally Posted by blisstik

Just wondering why can't a piggie log timing cylinders 2 through 6?

shiv said that's in the works. piggy backs have access to that data, they just haven't had a demand or use for it until now (that cobb offers it).

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by rader1

Then what's the point of the divorced DP? Since the PROcede just tells the DME whatever it wants, why go through the hassle of using that downpipe?

To work with stock exhaust/other aftermarket exhaust. saves money on the kit as you don't need a full turbo back.

[tscdennab]

It's not a big deal, the problem until now was that no one wanted to shell out the money to take the engine off a car, build a turbo manifold and put the engine back in. It was like $5000 investment which no one was willing to make, because they didn't believe in the outcome.

[Fundahl]

Originally Posted by bryce

not trying to start a tuning war. just pointing out the facts. auto-tuning, can-bus integration, on-the-fly map switching, command center, in-dash boost gauges, etc. all were procede innovations on the n54. where do you think bms got the ideas?

The customers wanted CAN integration, and Terry gave it to them.

He did not directly copy Shiv's board. He made a smart business move. It would be stupid to stay in the past just because someone has made a more technologically advanced product before you.

If you were Terry, what would you do? We could even argue that Terry had some innovation by offering similar capabilities and performance at a lower price point.

I'm not taking a side either. Shiv has really lit the high-power N54 flame. I doubt he will be the last in this market. If another comes along and directly copies Shiv's manifold, then yes, I would consider that copying.

Anyway, this is de-railing the thread. Both tunes are awesome, Big turbos are awesome, and now the OP should know WHY Shiv's kit is successful vs others failing.

[OpenFlash]

Copying technology/functionality is fine. What isn't fine is arguing against it when you don't have it and then arguing for it when you are able (sorta) to copy it. And then rewriting history so that few are the wiser.

[nafoo]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Copying technology/functionality is fine. What isn't fine is arguing against it when you don't have it and then arguing for it when you are able (sorta) to copy it. And then rewriting history so that few are the wiser.

QFT lol.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by rader1

This is something I've been wondering for a while and I don't know if I just missed it or what, but how the vishnu single turbo setup work where the others have failed?

My understanding of the major why the other singles have failed is the fact that the N54 was designed as a bi-turbo and going to a single downpipe really messes with the DME when it attempts to altar/adjust fueling in bank 1 and the O2 sensors do not see what is expected(kind of like getting the O2 sensors mixed up when installing DPs.) So how does vishnu deal with this? The single turbo uses a divorced downpipe, but it's just split off a single downpipe, so how does this help? Or is the PROcede just feeding the DME the info it wants to see?


I know I could've asked this in the vishnu threads, but sometimes stuff like this gets overlooked and never answered. Besides, I think this is a fairly important question.

The answer is simple. Vishnu did nothing. Some others failed because they tried to change the O2 sensors not to be bank specific.

Anyone can come up with a single turbo kit that works. Those who have failed do not understand engine management and tuning in general. Vishnu knows tuning just fine and has no difficulties in this. In addition Vishnu believes there is market enough for the kit so that they are able to make profit with it.

[jippii ensio]

Props for Vishnu for doing this.

[Fundahl]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Copying technology/functionality is fine. What isn't fine is arguing against it when you don't have it and then arguing for it when you are able (sorta) to copy it. And then rewriting history so that few are the wiser.

I agree, facts should be facts and history should not be "modified" to personal interest.

Sometimes people honestly change their opinion about certain things. They may be too stubborn to admit their eyes were opened a bit though.

Hope to see that beast you have created throw down some even crazier numbers with that new MAP sensor!

[rader1]

Originally Posted by Fundahl

Guys come on. Just read through some of the posts.

Vishnu succeeded because they found a way to keep the primary O2 sensors in their proper banks. They did this by mounting them in the exhaust manifold before the collector, each in their respective cylinder bank.

The divorced down-pipe has nothing to do with this. It is simply to make this kit compatible with the exhausts that are currently available.

HPF messed up because they didn't really think about it and put both the O2 sensors on the same down-pipe, which confused the DME on which bank was which and caused A/F Ratio instability. THAT is why their kit is delayed until new manifold design.

Terry with Burger Motorsports will also be releasing a board to control a single turbo kit when the time is right.

Congrats to Shiv for paving the way.

Ok, thanks. That makes sense.