[e90335iftw]

Originally Posted by AddictedToBavarian

What an idiot. Kids these days. All they look at is the 'now', not the future or dangers.

Really? He was doing what he loves, on a track, responsibly and legally. Unfortunately he made an error and it nearly costed him his life. Doesn't make him an idiot. Just an unfortunate situation.

[E90_boostjunky]

Damn, RIP to her, thank you for sharing this it really opened my eyes and its going to make me think twice about putting my family or girlfriend in a car that im going to race/track.

[E90_boostjunky]

Originally Posted by BuellsterR1

IMO, all decisions come with consequences and the maker shall be held accountable. SHE decided to ride passenger knowing the consequences. Unfortunately, the cards were not dealt in her favor and may she rest in peace.

AddictedToBarvarian labeled him an idiot. Why? because someone has to be held accountable? Do you really think he wanted this to happen. Dangers lay everywhere in life and sometimes, this is what defines life for some people. They take risk and in doing so, they live what they perceive is as life. Would it be appropriate to call you panzy because you seem to live your life in a box? No, not at all. If you happy doing what your doing and are satified by the decision you've made, who am I to judge?

KwlAzaKid stated an instance of "what if" and already deems the guy accountable. Remember, hindsight is always 20/20 so try not to be so quick to judge. The same "what if" can be said that if she did in fact go, that he wouldn't have crashed in the first place. Time, conditions, and said variables will ALL be different.

I'm not arguing the fact that the OP takes it upon himself to decide for others that the risk to too great to bear, in fact, I agree and this is why a majority of the time, I won't let me girlfriend ride passenger on my motorcycle.

Bottom line is, this story is very sad for all parties and instead of pointing fingers, maybe we should get the facts straight, learn from them, and enjoy life as we see fit.

+1

[Game]

Originally Posted by e90335iftw

Really? He was doing what he loves, on a track, responsibly and legally. Unfortunately he made an error and it nearly costed him his life. Doesn't make him an idiot. Just an unfortunate situation.

I'd guess he pushed it a little harder than usual to try to impress his GF.

[e90335iftw]

Originally Posted by Game

I'd guess he pushed it a little harder than usual to try to impress his GF.

What ever happened, happened. We shouldn't bash the guy for this by calling him an idiot. The poor guy lost his s/o.

[Game]

Originally Posted by e90335iftw

What ever happened, happened. We shouldn't bash the guy for this by calling him an idiot. The poor guy lost his s/o.

I didn't call him an idiot.

[John 070]

I don't envy folks that have inadvertently killed someone else, it has to be one of the worst situations imaginable. There is someone on my other forum who killed others incl. his friends in his car, and then I guess 5-6 yrs. later he states he's back, engaged, and has a new car (does this new woman know what happened to the last or one of the last?). I was away from the forum because I was here and on the forum for my wife's car, but it was so easy for me to google and find his story on what he had done, his jail sentence, etc. Tragic.

[AddictedToBavarian]

Originally Posted by e90335iftw

Really? He was doing what he loves, on a track, responsibly and legally. Unfortunately he made an error and it nearly costed him his life. Doesn't make him an idiot. Just an unfortunate situation.

Did you even read the story? He took his girlfriend and she died. That's his fault. And you're still defending him?

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

I've logged hundreds of laps at Chuckwalla and have never seen anyone come close to hitting anything. I'm so confused at how he could have hit that flag station. He definitely wasn't doing something right and the result is devastating.

Can anybody post a diagram illustrating these points? I've never heard of or been to this track, and looking at the picture on the first page it looks like a barren wasteland around the course. I'm trying to picture how something this tragic is possible.

Originally Posted by AddictedToBavarian

Did you even read the story? He took his girlfriend and she died. That's his fault. And you're still defending him?

That's debatable. While I agree with nearly everybody here in saying we shouldn't take our loved ones to ride passenger at the track, as long as she was doing so conscious of the risks and of her own free will, he is not responsible for bringing her along for the ride. For all we know she was passionate about going to the track as much as him? Maybe she loved riding along and would have been pissed if he didn't take her.

Perhaps this will be a cautionary tale to any significant others who are of the same mind as she possibly could have been.

[SwissCheeseHead]

Originally Posted by AddictedToBavarian

Did you even read the story? He took his girlfriend and she died. That's his fault. And you're still defending him?

You can't fault they guy for wanting to do something that he enjoyed with his girlfriend. If you wanted to go skydiving, bungee jumping, hell even skiing or snowboarding, wouldn't you want to take your g/f with you too? Like others have said, there is risk in everything. People die on the motorway in accidents all day every day, with their loved ones. You don't blame those folks do you? He was the only one on the track at the time. The conditions all took a turn for the worse and he and his g/f paid the ultimate cost for it. I feel terrible for them and their families. There's no need to crucify him for it. He's already in so much pain and this is something that he will have to live it.

[335dFan]

A sad tale, but a good reminder to all of us how quickly things can change in a heartbeat.

[mike-y]

The course was being run CCW, and coming out of the bowl is a right-left kink going uphill, so the apex is blind. you can carry a lot of speed through here, especially if you have a car with decent grip and power. I'm thinking maybe he dropped a wheel or 2 off on the outside of corner exit and it rotated the car back toward the inside an into the flag station on the left side of the track.

The kind of car he was in was not the issue (for ignorant people saying that FWD or integras are unsafe or incapable at the track). Any car could have ended up in the same place. I've seen all kinds of cars wreck at the track, including BMWs. It's an accident, and they happen. Unfortunately, for this guy, the consequences were much worse than a typical off track excursion.

I've run on the track with this outfit before, and believe I was on the track with this driver and his friends late last year. I never felt that anyone was being "unsafe" around me, everyone was driving hard and having a good time. It's unfortunate that these things happen, and I feel for the families of the driver and his gf.

it is the nature of the sport. Car racing in any form is dangerous - including "having fun" on the street, like many people on the forum probably do. At least this guy was at the track in a controlled environment, and not on public streets.

[BCeagle08]

Originally Posted by SharkBait

No. It doesn't. Ride alongs happen ALL the time at the track without any incident. This was a sad and unfortunate exception. If ride alongs were so much riskier, they would be banned everywhere which they aren't. If its not for you, that's fine but make that your own personal choice and not one that you feel needs to be forced on everyone else.

Personally I think any "club" that allows passenger ride alongs is asking for trouble and should not be doing it. I know a lot of HPDEs do allow it, but it's moronic. I know NASA permits passengers, but it 100% discretionary and they outline the dangers very clearly in the rules. If it wasn't dangerous, they wouldn't put so many restrictions on it. If it wasn't dangerous, sanctioning bodies would allow it during race events.

Originally Posted by derp

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you've never ridden along with a skilled driver at the track. If you did, you would know you learn tons that you can't get from video or in track side instructions. In a ride along, you feel the car and how the driver is making it move. You can feel braking force, turn in and exit aggressiveness, body roll, chassis vibration, etc. You can't get that from a video, a lap time or someone watching from the pits.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I've drive a full blown formula car with full data and video, so I am pretty confident that I know what can be learned and what can't be learned through post sessions analysis.

[DC_Oldboy]

Damn..

[atown88]

RIP. I really want to do track days but I would probably never take my girl. This just solidifies that decision.

[SharkBait]

Originally Posted by BCeagle08

Personally I think any "club" that allows passenger ride alongs is asking for trouble and should not be doing it. I know a lot of HPDEs do allow it, but it's moronic. I know NASA permits passengers, but it 100% discretionary and they outline the dangers very clearly in the rules. If it wasn't dangerous, they wouldn't put so many restrictions on it. If it wasn't dangerous, sanctioning bodies would allow it during race events.



I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I've drive a full blown formula car with full data and video, so I am pretty confident that I know what can be learned and what can't be learned through post sessions analysis.

I'm very happy for you! Your opinion is noted.

As a postscript, I can't help but think the real issue with this tragedy is not the ride along but the ride along in the absence of real safety gear. Had these two been in a caged car with SFI belts and helmets, etc. this debate would likely not be happening.

[Kayani_1]

SAD.........RIP.

I think we all have been a bit stupid at times.... in the heat of the moment stupidity can cloud your judgment.

To all here be safe specially when your loved one are riding with you