Is the 325D dead?

Ulrikgm · 11-20-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikem

Melted G`box and and dismounted rear sub-frame.

Ulrikgm, if thats right then things have really moved on since mine was mapped by DMS last Dec, then again in Feb. It was their programmer who warned me that taking it further would sacrifice longevity. I don`t know anything about engine internals but I do know the 325 and 330 both have variable geometry turbos but have different part No`s for the engine, cyl. heads and clutches as I looked into this last year.

It might be asking for trouble to push it that fare. DMS could very well be right but on the other hand Hartge is not just any tuning company.

Ulrik

dagjohnsen · 11-20-2007, 02:19 PM

Hartge tunes the 325d to 271 horsepower, and thats conservatively rated.
591 NM. ESS says 280 hp and 600 NM.
I have talked to one guy at Hartge and he told me the 325d and 330d engines are the same. Hartge also has a 231 hp alternative.

Hartge does it in two steps, first to original 330d map, and then up to chipped level, probably because none of the tuners including Hartge (and with an exception of ESS) dont know where the original programs has its limitations and torque-blocks (sorry, dont know the proper english word)

ESS delivers 238 hp at the rear wheels, thats 280 engine horsepower if a 15% loss is calculated. (280 hp minus 15% equals 238hp) They also claim 600 NM.

I will dyno my car next week. Will get back with the numbers!

dxb335d · 11-20-2007, 11:03 PM

Guys is the 325d a 3.0 turbo also then, same as the 330d?

mikem · 11-21-2007, 12:48 AM

Yes but with a smaller turbo. Just like the 318d is a 320d engine but with smaller turbo.

NFS · 11-21-2007, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Guys is the 325d a 3.0 turbo also then, same as the 330d?

The 325d and 330d both use 3.0 litre M57TU2D30 engine.

Best information on BMW engines is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BMW_engines

dagjohnsen · 11-21-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikem

Yes but with a smaller turbo. Just like the 318d is a 320d engine but with smaller turbo.

Hi Mikem,

I see you have info regarding different turbo sizes. Do you have details?
According to Hartge the turbos are 100% the same on 325d and 330d.

Dag

dxb335d · 11-21-2007, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by needforspeed

The 325d and 330d both use 3.0 litre M57TU2D30 engine.

Best information on BMW engines is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BMW_engines

Thanks NFS

ChrisMWard · 11-21-2007, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dagjohnsen

Hi Mikem,

I see you have info regarding different turbo sizes. Do you have details?
According to Hartge the turbos are 100% the same on 325d and 330d.

Dag

With the max torque occuring at such low rpm (1300) I would suspect the 325d to have a smaller turbo. Best to look at the parts list.

Regards

Chris

dagjohnsen · 11-21-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisMWard

With the max torque occuring at such low rpm (1300) I would suspect the 325d to have a smaller turbo. Best to look at the parts list.

Regards

Chris

I think the max torque at 1300 rpm is just a hype to try to tell people how flexible the engine is.

During driving the max torque seems to be around 1800 rpm, and clearly not at 1300 rpm.

I think the turbo is the same as the 330d, and Hartge have told me that this is the case 100% sure.

330cdsport · 11-21-2007, 10:46 AM

Took a look at RealOEM and both engines (325d and 330d) use the same turbo?!?!?!

325d

330d

The 318d and 320d however have different turbos.

dagjohnsen · 11-21-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 330cdsport

Took a look at RealOEM and both engines (325d and 330d) use the same turbo?!?!?!

325d

330d

The 318d and 320d however have different turbos.

Then the tuners are not kidding me

scooba0010 · 11-21-2007, 12:39 PM

I have enquired at birds the hartge uk agent .kevin bird there technical director with 30+ years exp of tuning bmw says its identical for 325 /330 d just a few mods on the map .now the but its 1100 plus vat for a new hartge remap and 271 bhp is the figure he is quoting also he highly reccomends a LSD god knows how much that adds to the mod ,so the question is who is correct ??

Ulrikgm · 11-21-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooba0010

I have enquired at birds the hartge uk agent .kevin bird there technical director with 30+ years exp of tuning bmw says its identical for 325 /330 d just a few mods on the map .now the but its 1100 plus vat for a new hartge remap and 271 bhp is the figure he is quoting also he highly reccomends a LSD god knows how much that adds to the mod ,so the question is who is correct ??

I think maybe we can conclude that if you are going to chip tune your car the 325d is a good choice. You save 4000 Euro over the 330d which is about equal to an M-package.

Dag How is your mileage in your 325d. Is is a 2007 or 2008 model?

Hotcoupe · 11-21-2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

scooba0010 I have enquired at birds the hartge uk agent .kevin bird there technical director with 30+ years exp of tuning bmw says its identical for 325 /330 d just a few mods on the map .now the but its 1100 plus vat for a new hartge remap and 271 bhp is the figure he is quoting also he highly reccomends a LSD god knows how much that adds to the mod ,so the question is who is correct ??

Geez nearly £1300 for a remap,that's big bucks.
Do you get anything else thrown in for that,like a new set of alloys.

E92Fan · 11-21-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooba0010

I have enquired at birds the hartge uk agent .kevin bird there technical director with 30+ years exp of tuning bmw says its identical for 325 /330 d just a few mods on the map .now the but its 1100 plus vat for a new hartge remap and 271 bhp is the figure he is quoting also he highly reccomends a LSD god knows how much that adds to the mod ,so the question is who is correct ??

Kevin is quite correct. The 325d and 330d uses exactly the same turbo, but run different maps. Kevin is also correct in saying that the Hartge map can liberate around 270bhp - which is fantastic! What that means is that it is probably better to buy a 325d loaded than a 330d, then remap the 325d to 270hp!!

And yes, the LSD will make a MASSIVE difference to the driving characteristics of the car... I'll report on the effects of the LSD (and anti-roll bars) once they've been installed tomorrow!

Ulrikgm · 11-21-2007, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

Geez nearly £1300 for a remap,that's big bucks.
Do you get anything else thrown in for that,like a new set of alloys.

You could go with ESS. Half price

Ulrik

Hotcoupe · 11-21-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Ulrikgm Quote:
You could go with ESS. Half price

Ulrik

Failing that,go somewhere else and save a grand!

Ireland · 11-21-2007, 02:18 PM

ya the 323d is going to be amazing i would definately prefer it to a 325d purely because less turbo-Lag that was the only thing i didnt like about my 320d that and the diesel rumble

nagge · 11-21-2007, 02:25 PM

ESS has no problem maxing out your engine if you would like it. The only problem is that the rest of the drivetrain might not handle the extra torque all that well. When I visited them with my 330d they simply asked me what I was looking for: Max performance but with possible reliability issues or a "safe" map within the specifications of the gearbox. I know a swedish 335d owner who are currently in contact with ESS about tuning his car to 400bhp (thats with added intercooler and other stuff).

What I'm really saying is that numbers arent that hard to achieve, but getting numbers while still having reliability is another task...

ESS for instance changes your shift-pattern for the steptronic to handle the added torque.

Hotcoupe · 11-21-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

nagge ESS has no problem maxing out your engine if you would like it. The only problem is that the rest of the drivetrain might not handle the extra torque all that well. When I visited them with my 330d they simply asked me what I was looking for: Max performance but with possible reliability issues or a "safe" map within the specifications of the gearbox. I know a swedish 335d owner who are currently in contact with ESS about tuning his car to 400bhp (thats with added intercooler and other stuff).

What I'm really saying is that numbers arent that hard to achieve, but getting numbers while still having reliability is another task...

ESS for instance changes your shift-pattern for the steptronic to handle the added torque.

nagge,I'm not planning on doing anything drastic,nothing that would impact on the drivetrain etc.
The remap will not be so aggressive to cause any problems.

400bhp is an awesome figure,I would hope a brakes upgrade would be included amongst 'the other stuff'.

Interesting site the ESS one,and I particularly liked the following:

Will ESS supercharger systems affect the new car warranty?

Yes, the original manufacterer's warranty will be void if the damaged part is caused as a direct result of the supercharger system. The burden of proof is on the original manufacturer. Only warranty on components directly affected can be void. ESS Supplemental Powertrain Warranty is available and will cover any affected factory components for the remaining term of the Original Vehicle Manufacturer's New Car Warranty (up to 4yr/50.000 miles).

What is the ESS Supplemental Powertrain Warranty program?

ESS Supplemental Powertrain Warranty will cover any affected factory components for the remaining term of the Original Vehicle Manufacturer's New Car Warranty (up to 4yr/50.000 miles) following the same conditions and exclusions as the Original Vehicle Manufacturer's New Car Warranty.
ESS Supplemental Powertrain Warranty can only be purchased with the purchase of a new ESS supercharger system directly from us or one of our authorized dealers.
ESS Supplemental Powertrain Warranty is only available in Norway, USA and Canada.

scooba0010 · 11-21-2007, 02:45 PM

So i think we have decided the engines are the same except the maps .what about gearboxes etc ?? because i am certain that i read there is a difference between the 325 /330 does any one know if thats correct th

anks

Ulrikgm · 11-21-2007, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooba0010

So i think we have decided the engines are the same except the maps .what about gearboxes etc ?? because i am certain that i read there is a difference between the 325 /330 does any one know if thats correct th

anks

The Manual gearbox also seems to be the same according to RealOEM but NOT the auto:

Manual

325d:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...41&hg=23&fg=05

330d
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...36&hg=23&fg=05

Auto:

325d:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...51&hg=24&fg=05

330d:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...36&hg=24&fg=05

11-20-2007, 02:19 PM	#24
dagjohnsen Second Lieutenant 11 Rep 276 Posts Drives: BMW E92 325dM Coupe Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Norway iTrader: (0)	Hartge tunes the 325d to 271 horsepower, and thats conservatively rated. 591 NM. ESS says 280 hp and 600 NM. I have talked to one guy at Hartge and he told me the 325d and 330d engines are the same. Hartge also has a 231 hp alternative. Hartge does it in two steps, first to original 330d map, and then up to chipped level, probably because none of the tuners including Hartge (and with an exception of ESS) dont know where the original programs has its limitations and torque-blocks (sorry, dont know the proper english word) ESS delivers 238 hp at the rear wheels, thats 280 engine horsepower if a 15% loss is calculated. (280 hp minus 15% equals 238hp) They also claim 600 NM. I will dyno my car next week. Will get back with the numbers!
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11-20-2007, 11:03 PM	#25
dxb335d The Tarmac Terrorist 945 Rep 29,345 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ''Fandango Towers'' iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 [9.50] 2003 BMW E46 M3 [6.00] 2007 BMW E92 335D [5.50]	Guys is the 325d a 3.0 turbo also then, same as the 330d? __________________ 997.2 GT3
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11-21-2007, 12:48 AM	#26
mikem Lieutenant Colonel 83 Rep 1,557 Posts Drives: Z4M Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Somewhere iTrader: (0)	Yes but with a smaller turbo. Just like the 318d is a 320d engine but with smaller turbo.
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11-21-2007, 10:46 AM	#32
330cdsport Right Responsible 58 Rep 1,646 Posts Drives: AW F21 M135i Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: N. Ireland iTrader: (0) Garage List 2011 535d M Sport [0.00] 2007 E91 320 M Sport [0.00] 2007 E92 335d M Sport [0.00]	Took a look at RealOEM and both engines (325d and 330d) use the same turbo?!?!?! 325d 330d The 318d and 320d however have different turbos. __________________ Last: 330cd Sport - Silver Grey, 335d M Sport Coupe, F10 535d M Sport. Current: AW F21 M135i, Coral Red, Pro Nav, Vis, HK, & Clunky Adaptive Suspension Current: F15 X5 XDrive 40d M Sport - Space Grey, lots of toys.
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11-21-2007, 12:39 PM	#34
scooba0010 Colonel 155 Rep 2,349 Posts Drives: F32 430D-MOTORSPORT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (1)	kevin bird from hartge ref 325d I have enquired at birds the hartge uk agent .kevin bird there technical director with 30+ years exp of tuning bmw says its identical for 325 /330 d just a few mods on the map .now the but its 1100 plus vat for a new hartge remap and 271 bhp is the figure he is quoting also he highly reccomends a LSD god knows how much that adds to the mod ,so the question is who is correct ??
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11-21-2007, 02:18 PM	#40
Ireland Private 0 Rep 52 Posts Drives: 2006 Bmw 330i Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ennis, Ireland iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 330i SE [0.00] 2006 330i SE [0.00]	ya the 323d is going to be amazing i would definately prefer it to a 325d purely because less turbo-Lag that was the only thing i didnt like about my 320d that and the diesel rumble
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11-21-2007, 02:25 PM	#41
nagge Swedish user 2 Rep 267 Posts Drives: 06' E90 330dA Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sweden iTrader: (0)	ESS has no problem maxing out your engine if you would like it. The only problem is that the rest of the drivetrain might not handle the extra torque all that well. When I visited them with my 330d they simply asked me what I was looking for: Max performance but with possible reliability issues or a "safe" map within the specifications of the gearbox. I know a swedish 335d owner who are currently in contact with ESS about tuning his car to 400bhp (thats with added intercooler and other stuff). What I'm really saying is that numbers arent that hard to achieve, but getting numbers while still having reliability is another task... ESS for instance changes your shift-pattern for the steptronic to handle the added torque. __________________ E90 330dA \| SG \| Remapped \| Blacklines \| Matte black kidney grill \| M3 Steering wheel \| Ümnitza Predator ICE LED Angel eyes \| 18" M5 reps \| ESS Tuning
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11-21-2007, 02:45 PM	#43
scooba0010 Colonel 155 Rep 2,349 Posts Drives: F32 430D-MOTORSPORT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: UK iTrader: (1)	325 -- 330 d So i think we have decided the engines are the same except the maps .what about gearboxes etc ?? because i am certain that i read there is a difference between the 325 /330 does any one know if thats correct thanks
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