Next GEN I-DRIVE Retrofit

dmurray14 · 10-08-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

What tools do you have? I bought OPS to do this, only to discover that PROGMAN doesn't handle 08 M3's.

PM me

gIzzE · 10-09-2009, 03:31 AM

You should be able to code the CIC on the bench, looking at the bluetooth retrofit, for cars with no most bus installed it shows you how to add it, and the most bus doesn't actually attach to any of the car, just to all the most components.

Technic · 10-09-2009, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gIzzE

You should be able to code the CIC on the bench, looking at the bluetooth retrofit, for cars with no most bus installed it shows you how to add it, and the most bus doesn't actually attach to any of the car, just to all the most components.

Can you explain that process a little bit more detailed, please? Is this coding done using Autologic?

I asked another dealer for what it entails to code a new CIC -on top of loading the FSC) and they started talking about several hours of programming the whole car.

gIzzE · 10-09-2009, 07:19 AM

I don't know to be honest mate.

Just that the guys in Poland said they could supply one coded for the options on my car, so tell the CIC that I have Bluetooth, USB, Dab radio, CD changer etc. etc.

I asked how they could do this without the car and they said they do it on a bench, that the most bus is not connected to the car, it is simply a ring connected to the most devices. This is all done through OPPS using SSS.
Reading the bluetooth retrofit there is a section for cars without the most ring factory fitted, it explains that you have to buy a 'Most Diagnostic/coding cable' which attaches to the back of the head unit (it says only with cars with option SA663, SA603 and SA693) and then run the diagnoistic connector end down under the glove box and replace the blanking plate with the most programming port.
Then when you add other most devices you have to take out the 'most in' cable from the back of the head unit, and put the new devices 'most in' into that and daisy chain the next device.

Which means that the most programming can all be done out of the car, whether you also need a can generator as well I don't know.

I am considering buying an OPS laptop, however they are now using ISIS 3G for coding, so don't want to get caught out in the near future with a grands worth of useless kit.

gIzzE · 10-09-2009, 07:20 AM

Oh, and someone else I know coding and changed the vehicle order when retrofitting the nav in a 1er using a standard OBD port, said it took hours but it did work, so it seems the most is just a faster way of transfering the large files we have now??

Technic · 10-09-2009, 08:25 AM

Thanks... I'm convinced too that there must be a way of individually coding the CIC either in the car or in a bench instead of coding the whole car.

It just does not make any technical sense to me to hear one tech in my dealership talking about the risk in updating one particular module and messing up another completely different one. Perhaps that can happen in a PC running Windows, but in a car?

TheUltimateDrivingManiac · 10-09-2009, 08:53 AM

I don't think you need to update the whole car if you already have latest software for the modules.

AFAIK Progman or ISTA/P are coding only those units which needs an update.

Technic · 10-09-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUltimateDrivingManiac

I don't think you need to update the whole car if you already have latest software for the modules.

AFAIK Progman or ISTA/P are coding only those units which needs an update.

So, the actual and only coding will involve setting the new CIC for the correct existing audio modules in the car -such as analog outputs if HiFi is present for example- and the loading of the FSC enabling codes?

gIzzE · 10-09-2009, 09:27 AM

The fact someone has put the CIC into his E46 tells you they don't need to be in the car, he as also got the codes legitimately from BMW to activate the nav and the voice.

Technic · 10-09-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gIzzE

The fact someone has put the CIC into his E46 tells you they don't need to be in the car, he as also got the codes legitimately from BMW to activate the nav and the voice.

Is there a thread of that install somewhere?

dmurray14 · 10-09-2009, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gIzzE

You should be able to code the CIC on the bench, looking at the bluetooth retrofit, for cars with no most bus installed it shows you how to add it, and the most bus doesn't actually attach to any of the car, just to all the most components.

You can! It definitely doesn't need to be in the car to be coded. Just powered and wired directly to the coding computer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

Thanks... I'm convinced too that there must be a way of individually coding the CIC either in the car or in a bench instead of coding the whole car.

It just does not make any technical sense to me to hear one tech in my dealership talking about the risk in updating one particular module and messing up another completely different one. Perhaps that can happen in a PC running Windows, but in a car?

The dealer doesn't have the tools to program only one module. They also don't have the tools to change coding options beyond what the VO/FA specifies. That is where you have to get creative.

In the case of a dealer tech, he's probably just regurgitating what they're taught, which is to run through Progman/ ISTA/P and let it code the car. It has all the logic to figure out what options get coded, and code as well as program.

As for coding the whole car - again, that's probably what they're taught. Typically when a module is replaced/retrofitted/whatever it has a different software version than the rest of the car. If you were to fire up progman, it would see the version mismatch, and want to program all the modules to bring them up to the same version as the rest of the car. This is called the "i-level" or "i-stufe" and represents what software version every module in the car has.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

So, the actual and only coding will involve setting the new CIC for the correct existing audio modules in the car -such as analog outputs if HiFi is present for example- and the loading of the FSC enabling codes?

Yes! I really do suck at explaining things, that's what I was trying to say a while back. The only thing that SHOULD need to be coded in car that was already equipped with iDrive before the retrofit should be the CIC itself. At this time it appears that is all Long needs to get his system working as well (beyond the navigation activation which, as you said, requires the FSC codes). There are just a few options that need to be flipped in his coding data to get his sound to work. Remember coding is NOT programming. Coding specifies the options or variables the system operates off of. Programming is uploading the software it actually runs. Coding takes 5-10 seconds per module, programming can take hours for the whole car.

gIzzE · 10-09-2009, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

Is there a thread of that install somewhere?

The link is dead now, I have asked him if he can share teh pics again.

http://xoutpost.com/electronics/navi...2-cic-e46.html

Technic · 10-09-2009, 10:36 AM

Thanks...

According to one of my OEM parts sources, the MY2010 CIC sales will be restricted to warranty repairs and will not be sold to particular customers for quite some time. So I will go ahead and order a MY2009 CIC thru one of the OEM sponsors of this forum and hope that eventually a software update will be offered for the new Voice Control feature.

The idea continues to be to get the FSC supplied with this unit, install the screen and CIC (the elusive USB cable cannot be found anywhere, not even at a junkyard) and do the coding at my local dealer.

dmurray14 · 10-09-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

Thanks...

According to one of my OEM parts sources, the MY2010 CIC sales will be restricted to warranty repairs and will not be sold to particular customers for quite some time. So I will go ahead and order a MY2009 CIC thru one of the OEM sponsors of this forum and hope that eventually a software update will be offered for the new Voice Control feature.

The idea continues to be to get the FSC supplied with this unit, install the screen and CIC (the elusive USB cable cannot be found anywhere, not even at a junkyard) and do the coding at my local dealer.

Cool! Let me know how it goes and if you need any assistance!

Technic · 10-09-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmurray14

Cool! Let me know how it goes and if you need any assistance!

It looks like BMW also locked the '09 CIC sales down for non-warranty purposes as well... trying some other route now.

dmurray14 · 10-09-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Technic

It looks like BMW also locked the '09 CIC sales down for non-warranty purposes as well... trying some other route now.

Not cool! Time for the smart ones to try and start cracking the FSC procedures!

TheUltimateDrivingManiac · 10-10-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmurray14

Not cool! Time for the smart ones to try and start cracking the FSC procedures!

1024-bit security? Don't think it's possible.

Technic · 10-10-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUltimateDrivingManiac

1024-bit security? Don't think it's possible.

Somehow the person that did the E46/CIC conversion have a way of generating the FSC for new and used CIC, as least that what he told me in a PM yesterday. He stated that he needs the car to do the whole activation -no mention of doing any bench programming.

Unfortunately, he's in Germany and not talking about how he does it in detail, of course.

dmurray14 · 10-10-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUltimateDrivingManiac

1024-bit security? Don't think it's possible.

Anything's possible, especially when you have the unit in hand. It runs an operating system just like anything else (and IIRC it's windows ce). If the iPhone can be cracked, so can this.

gIzzE · 10-11-2009, 01:28 PM

That's the problem, my 1er is a MY2009 car, so I reckon it will be no good.

I have to say, the one thing I preferred with my Audi was the $200 vag com cables to code everything!!

It was also the only thing I preferred!!

Fluffy bastard · 10-12-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUltimateDrivingManiac

As I already told - no solution will come. People make money with it and do not share anything. They can answer the question, if question itself contains most of the answer, but will not give full solution.

Basically it's clear that it's plug-and-play, you just need to change the VO with INPA or Autologic. But the biggest question is how to activate Navi, because you need VIN-specific FSC which is generated by BMW online via Internet.

My dear, we are waiting for a whisky

Don't forget about it.

P.s.: the CIC activation code is generated only for car which has CIC already installed.

Technic · 10-12-2009, 12:32 PM

If an E46 can get the FSC codes somehow...

10-09-2009, 03:31 AM	#376
gIzzE Major General 363 Rep 5,984 Posts Drives: F11 + 911 C4 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Norfolk, UK. iTrader: (2)	You should be able to code the CIC on the bench, looking at the bluetooth retrofit, for cars with no most bus installed it shows you how to add it, and the most bus doesn't actually attach to any of the car, just to all the most components.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-09-2009, 07:19 AM	#378
gIzzE Major General 363 Rep 5,984 Posts Drives: F11 + 911 C4 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Norfolk, UK. iTrader: (2)	I don't know to be honest mate. Just that the guys in Poland said they could supply one coded for the options on my car, so tell the CIC that I have Bluetooth, USB, Dab radio, CD changer etc. etc. I asked how they could do this without the car and they said they do it on a bench, that the most bus is not connected to the car, it is simply a ring connected to the most devices. This is all done through OPPS using SSS. Reading the bluetooth retrofit there is a section for cars without the most ring factory fitted, it explains that you have to buy a 'Most Diagnostic/coding cable' which attaches to the back of the head unit (it says only with cars with option SA663, SA603 and SA693) and then run the diagnoistic connector end down under the glove box and replace the blanking plate with the most programming port. Then when you add other most devices you have to take out the 'most in' cable from the back of the head unit, and put the new devices 'most in' into that and daisy chain the next device. Which means that the most programming can all be done out of the car, whether you also need a can generator as well I don't know. I am considering buying an OPS laptop, however they are now using ISIS 3G for coding, so don't want to get caught out in the near future with a grands worth of useless kit.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-09-2009, 07:20 AM	#379
gIzzE Major General 363 Rep 5,984 Posts Drives: F11 + 911 C4 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Norfolk, UK. iTrader: (2)	Oh, and someone else I know coding and changed the vehicle order when retrofitting the nav in a 1er using a standard OBD port, said it took hours but it did work, so it seems the most is just a faster way of transfering the large files we have now??
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-09-2009, 08:25 AM	#380
Technic Lieutenant General 2288 Rep 13,000 Posts Drives: 2021 i3S, 2024 i4 M50 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Florida iTrader: (18)	Thanks... I'm convinced too that there must be a way of individually coding the CIC either in the car or in a bench instead of coding the whole car. It just does not make any technical sense to me to hear one tech in my dealership talking about the risk in updating one particular module and messing up another completely different one. Perhaps that can happen in a PC running Windows, but in a car?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-09-2009, 08:53 AM	#381
TheUltimateDrivingManiac Freude am Fahren. 835 Rep 1,287 Posts Drives: F15 X5 xDrive35i Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 BMW F900R [0.00] 2016 BMW X5 xDrive35i [0.00]	I don't think you need to update the whole car if you already have latest software for the modules. AFAIK Progman or ISTA/P are coding only those units which needs an update. __________________ Freude am Fahren.
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10-09-2009, 09:27 AM	#383
gIzzE Major General 363 Rep 5,984 Posts Drives: F11 + 911 C4 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Norfolk, UK. iTrader: (2)	The fact someone has put the CIC into his E46 tells you they don't need to be in the car, he as also got the codes legitimately from BMW to activate the nav and the voice.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-09-2009, 10:36 AM	#387
Technic Lieutenant General 2288 Rep 13,000 Posts Drives: 2021 i3S, 2024 i4 M50 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Florida iTrader: (18)	Thanks... According to one of my OEM parts sources, the MY2010 CIC sales will be restricted to warranty repairs and will not be sold to particular customers for quite some time. So I will go ahead and order a MY2009 CIC thru one of the OEM sponsors of this forum and hope that eventually a software update will be offered for the new Voice Control feature. The idea continues to be to get the FSC supplied with this unit, install the screen and CIC (the elusive USB cable cannot be found anywhere, not even at a junkyard) and do the coding at my local dealer.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

10-11-2009, 01:28 PM	#394
gIzzE Major General 363 Rep 5,984 Posts Drives: F11 + 911 C4 Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Norfolk, UK. iTrader: (2)	That's the problem, my 1er is a MY2009 car, so I reckon it will be no good. I have to say, the one thing I preferred with my Audi was the $200 vag com cables to code everything!! It was also the only thing I preferred!!
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10-12-2009, 12:32 PM	#396
Technic Lieutenant General 2288 Rep 13,000 Posts Drives: 2021 i3S, 2024 i4 M50 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Florida iTrader: (18)	If an E46 can get the FSC codes somehow...
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