[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by NRG

Sport/track car vs MPG. Hmmm doesn't sound right.

Sport/track definitely. Legendary, maybe someday. We'll see how the next I6 M3 does and then talk.

PL

[NRG]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Sport/track definitely. Legendary, maybe someday. We'll see how the next I6 M3 does and then talk.

PL

Most definitely... So far none of the M3s disappointed.

[Pierre Louis]

BMW developed the V8 for the M3 because they were pissed off at Porsche always beating them with the 911 flat 6's in competition. There was a big flap about it when BMW introduced the V8 and Porsche protested that BMW got away with bending the rules. The bottom line is, when Porsche engineers improvements into its motors, there is always an improvement in efficiency included: that means a performance improvement in mpg. That is how legends are born with their small cars beating the thirsty behemoth racers of yore: fewer fuel stops too.

So now BMW is facing a problem of where to go next with its V8, originally a bad decision for its M3 since it bears a double whammy of gas guzzler tax and premium gas with an EPA rating of 14 City, 20 Highway!

Rumor has it that the inline 6 might get an electric tri-turbo. At any rate, the mpg's will be better and be sure that the torque with turbos will be substantially better as well as more horsepower. It just won't be normally aspirated.

But BMW already has something special they apparently won't import to North America. Consider how Audi has won the last 6 out of 7 24-hours LeMans races (the other by a Peugeot diesel) with their turbo-diesels. It would be great to have the M535d here in the States. Already BMW has the only all-aluminum inline 6 tri-turbo direct injection diesel passenger car with an engine that weighs about what the M3 V8 does.

Now wouldn't that be legendary.

PL

[BMJ]

Guys there's no debate here stock 335D is not in a M3 class of car case closed... just like my 335 tuned or not is not in a M3s class... I never compare my car to a M3 what's the point. it's a 3er not a M car

by the way if i had the moeny at the time I would have bought a diesel over my 335.. a 330D.... M3 Exxx wish i could have but no money...

[Puerto Rican 335d]

BMJ Im with you there is NO comparison but the mere fact that a "D" can keep up with the M3 is PRICELESS!!!!

[NRG]

@PL

I'll be looking very closely at the F80 M3 for my next car since it's my fav BMW model, and I was itching for quite some time now for an M3 sedan.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by NRG

@PL

I'll be looking very closely at the F80 M3 for my next car since it's my fav BMW model, and I was itching for quite some time now for an M3 sedan.

Yes, that could become quite the ride, especially if they continue to offer the manual transmission!

PL

[geko29]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

Yes, that could become quite the ride, especially if they continue to offer the manual transmission!

PL

Sounds like going forward it'll be the ONLY M car that still offers an MT.

[Pierre Louis]

Originally Posted by geko29

Sounds like going forward it'll be the ONLY M car that still offers an MT.

The increased torque is a problem for manual transmissions, especially with the turbo giving massive numbers and at low RPM's. The dry clutch gets a bit cooked. But other companies (Porsche) seem to be able to do it, so hopefully BMW will figure it out.

PL

[Pierre Louis]

Interestingly enough, a similar transition is happening to the Bentley Continental GT from the W12 to a blown V8. Today's WSJ Review basically reveals how desirable the new engine is and more in line with the history of Bentley engines of yore: "...some of the greatest historic Bentleys had straight-eights, -sixes and even -fours (the 4½-liter supercharged "Blower" Bentleys), the turbo eight in the new car can be regarded as a return to form...."

So a blown inline six should go along with BMW tradition of potent smooth inline 6's and perhaps be a better experience to boot.

PL

[FormerRotor]

To those of the M3 side...It would not be that challenging to replace all of our bushings & suspension/bracing bits with those of an M3 (or more track-type components). Add an LSD and tune, and can we agree that the two-at that point-would be quite comparable? It seems odd to me that some folks seem to be under the impression that the stock m3s prowess simply can not be met by a 335. We're really just talking about extremely well-engineered chunks of metal, rubber, synthetics, and springy bits here.

Also (to all), something I've always wondered...Is it fair to say that every BMW enthusiast is also an M enthusiast? I would think so, but some may disagree.

Personally, if given the option of choosing between the E or F M3, I would probably take the E and supercharge it with the cost savings. It's the same reason I want to get my hands on one of the V10 m6s. What says unique like a "sleeper" m6 with a twin-supercharged stroker v10?

[GreekboyD]

Originally Posted by FormerRotor

To those of the M3 side...It would not be that challenging to replace all of our bushings & suspension/bracing bits with those of an M3 (or more track-type components). Add an LSD and tune, and can we agree that the two-at that point-would be quite comparable? It seems odd to me that some folks seem to be under the impression that the stock m3s prowess simply can not be met by a 335. We're really just talking about extremely well-engineered chunks of metal, rubber, synthetics, and springy bits here.

Also (to all), something I've always wondered...Is it fair to say that every BMW enthusiast is also an M enthusiast? I would think so, but some may disagree.

Personally, if given the option of choosing between the E or F M3, I would probably take the E and supercharge it with the cost savings. It's the same reason I want to get my hands on one of the V10 m6s. What says unique like a "sleeper" m6 with a twin-supercharged stroker v10?

I'm in the process of doing a full M3 suspension change with Megan toe arms, VAC adjustable sway end links, Quaife LSD and tune by next spring. I'm doing this not because I want it to be an M3 but because I am out of control at this time with mods.

[E90Company]

The hostility between the 335i/d and M3 owners amazes me. I have to say that the M3 guys are the ones that tend to go on and on

[FormerRotor]

Originally Posted by GreekboyD

I'm in the process of doing a full M3 suspension change with Megan toe arms, VAC adjustable sway end links, Quaife LSD and tune by next spring. I'm doing this not because I want it to be an M3 but because I am out of control at this time with mods.

Lol...love it. I wish I could get away with all that.

[dxb335d]

Own an ///M an you won't go back. (ex 335d owner here)

[cssnms]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Own an ///M an you won't go back. (ex 335d owner here)

I have owned an M, test drove an e90 M3 and I decided to buy a 335d.

[FormerRotor]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Own an ///M an you won't go back. (ex 335d owner here)

I disagree. I love the M cars, but thats why they make multi-car garages.

I've put almost 30k miles on the diesel since 1/30/12. I would have completely regretted it if I were racking up those miles on the M I was looking at (plus it was too showy and too much of a gas-hog to be my only car because of what I do for a living, speaking to others' perceptions).

Speaking to the financial side, My gas bill alone would be $9k/yr more (at 45k miles/yr and $4/gal)--not to mention the nominally increased cost of maintenance. At that rate, I can buy a low-mileage 2010/11 M6 at auction in another 3.5 years and pay for it with only what I have deferred in gas expenses.

[dxb335d]

I couldn't care less about the gas bill. The M3 is overall a better car.

The 335d is wonderful but is no M3 even if it is a quick in a straight line.

I agree though, it would be nice to own both at the same time.

[NRG]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Own an ///M an you won't go back. (ex 335d owner here)

I've test drove an E90 M3 DCT for a few days, no other 3 series compares, not even close. Another feeling...

[Pierre Louis]

If you are looking for a streetable race car that is comfortable, safe, and built really well, go with an M3.

If you are looking for a daily driver that can run with an M3, but are sensitive to having a car that is not ostentatious, not a fuel guzzler, and not punishing to the wallet, the 335d shines.

The reason many M3 drivers feel they need to defend themselves is how close a 335d comes to an M3 at 2/3 of the price, while beating it in several key categories such as low end torque and fuel economy.

The nice thing about BMW making both is that the two cars are made for different markets and different folks appreciate them. The sad thing is that both diesel and gasoline technologies have their own strengths and limitations, making the comparison rather like one of apples and oranges.

PL

[OILPowered]

Originally Posted by Pierre Louis

If you are looking for a streetable race car that is comfortable, safe, and built really well, go with an M3.

If you are looking for a daily driver that can run with an M3, but are sensitive to having a car that is not ostentatious, not a fuel guzzler, and not punishing to the wallet, the 335d shines.

The reason many M3 drivers feel they need to defend themselves is how close a 335d comes to an M3 at 2/3 of the price, while beating it in several key categories such as low end torque and fuel economy.

The nice thing about BMW making both is that the two cars are made for different markets and different folks appreciate them. The sad thing is that both diesel and gasoline technologies have their own strengths and limitations, making the comparison rather like one of apples and oranges.

PL

Well said- it's definitely apples to oranges. M3 = little compromise, ultra high performance street/track 3er with the flash and panache to match. 335d= high performance for the efficiency minded enthusiast (or for those that just love torque) 3er with the subtlety for the mainstream. To each is own.

[FormerRotor]

Originally Posted by OILPowered

Well said- it's definitely apples to oranges. M3 = little compromise, ultra high performance street/track 3er with the flash and panache to match. 335d= high performance for the efficiency minded enthusiast (or for those that just love torque) 3er with the subtlety for the mainstream. To each is own.

Well- (and diplomatically-) put.