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LPFP Tech info
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01-20-2013, 07:23 PM | #155 |
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Pulling a lot of amps has nothing to do with heating the fuel. It only has to do with the wiring. If you pull too many amps with too small a gauge of wiring, you can expect at the least popped fuses, and in extreme cases where for some reason the fuse doesn't pop the wires can heat up to the point of melting and causing an electrical fire. At no point will this heat up the fuel
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01-20-2013, 09:06 PM | #157 |
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Yes, that is true, but go ahead and read his question. He is asking if the amperage draw is going to heat the fuel. The answer is a resounding no. Yes running parallel pumps can see some fuel heating, but again. Not what he was asking.
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01-20-2013, 09:22 PM | #158 | |
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As the graph I provided indicates, the higher the restriction, the better pumps in series will perform in comparison to single and parallel. The one thing that most people haven't taken into consideration is surge. If the surge doesn't exceed what a single pump can provide, then parallel pumps will deliver the volume. If not, then the only option is series. Just depends on how restrictive our system truly is. So I'm really looking forward to seeing how the parallel pumps perform in a car that is having LPFP issues. I find it funny that after 20 years, I'm back to running fuel pumps in series. I had a booster pump on my '93 MR2. |
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01-20-2013, 09:43 PM | #159 | |
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01-20-2013, 09:58 PM | #160 |
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Honestly no idea why you have picked up the torch and have taken it upon yourself to be the knight for this pump upgrade. I honestly think it works. But for the flow you are getting it is way overpriced. But everyone in business is in business to make money. But if you are going to charge triple what anyone with an internet connection can get the pump for, there should be some hard numbers and facts as to why. Look into any high horsepower platform and, they either run one massive pump or two pumps in parallel. Booster pumps and pumps in series have always been and always will be a band-aid approach. They work don't get me wrong but if its being touted as the "solution" then I might not agree. Take a look at this graph, sure pumps in series hold up better in higher pressure, but we do need to run higher pressures, we are looking for flow. In that case series do not hold a candle to a parallel set up. With that I am signing out of this discussion. I think all this talk is good for the platform and its coming along nicely.
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01-21-2013, 05:02 AM | #161 |
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I am confused as to how we are going to make more flow work for us? I mean this LPFP feeds a mechanically driven HPFP right? Isn't being sure we maintain pressure more important? There is no return system. So say you are running your parallel pumps and you flow 50% more fuel where does th excess go?
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01-21-2013, 08:42 AM | #162 |
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i know im new here, but not new to making hp. i have always ran domestic cars. both of my car i built i have ran e85. Maybe someone could contact a domestic vendor and maybe we could get them to look at building a billet hat for a larger singe, or dual pump set up. here is a link to the guys doing a lot for the ford/ls guys with nice plug and play setups.
i have no idea if they would be willing to get into something like this, but they make nice drop in, plug and play fuel hats and direct upgraded wiring harness for the high amp draws of larger pumps. http://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/3-900.htm |
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01-21-2013, 08:46 AM | #163 | |
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01-21-2013, 12:32 PM | #164 | |
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01-21-2013, 12:45 PM | #165 |
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Ok so once you get downstream (up?) of the tank you can't flow more than what the injection system allows? Why all this sudden need for excess flow? I thought the reason for upgrading the pump was because the pressure drops out.
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01-21-2013, 12:58 PM | #166 |
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not needed for stock configuration...but a tuned car running 400whp and up needs both the added flow and pressure to properly feed the hpfp inlet
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01-21-2013, 02:31 PM | #167 | |
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01-21-2013, 02:46 PM | #168 | |
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I think Tony knows the fuel is receiving heat. The point is it is such a miniscule amount that you probably wouldn't even be able to measure a difference in temperature. |
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01-21-2013, 02:49 PM | #169 | |
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01-21-2013, 04:18 PM | #170 | |
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What did you bring to the table? Assumptions? Who was stifling? Obviously you were by claiming the single Walbro would outperform the series pumps. You did say that multiple times didn't you? Pumps in a tub tells me a whole lot of information. Will the single handle a surge without pressure drop? I hope so, but until someone puts this in their car and tunes with 100% e85 and pulls through multiple gears with aggressive boost and timing, I don't think we have conclusive data. I hope it works. We need a cost effective solution. So stop the childish banter with your coat-tail assumptions. |
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01-21-2013, 05:12 PM | #172 | |
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01-21-2013, 05:40 PM | #173 |
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AMS and BMS both posted test results showing the same behaviors with minimal salesmanship while FFTEC posted flow numbers with heavy salesmenship and no testing at all to back them up. Clearly this is a BMS problem.
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01-21-2013, 05:57 PM | #174 | |
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01-21-2013, 06:07 PM | #175 |
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In order for a pump system to be effective it has to be able to provide the required pressure, aka head, at the required flow rate. Any upgrade has to be able to handle both of these otherwise it is not adequate.
A series setup is typically used to boost the pressure of the system without specific regard to increasing flow - not that it can't be used that way though. Parallel setups are used to increase flow. For a given increase in flow, or a "surge," a series setup will typically lose more pressure than a parallel setup. Now if it can lose pressure but still meet requirements, then no big deal. But there are also efficiency curves and all that to take into account as well. That's my two cents from some basic courses in water sanitation and pump selection.
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01-21-2013, 06:54 PM | #176 |
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A few questions I had in mind after reading so many posts were:
1. What are significant disadvantages/tradeoffs of going the Vishnu/FFTEC setup other than the price? 2. What are significant disadvantages/tradeoffs of going the BMS setup other than the fact that you need to DIY? 3. Other than the reasons of price/convenience why would you choose one setup over another? 4. Is the Vishnu setup a quality product and is there a warranty that comes with their pump? Can someone take the time to answer these questions in a simple and understandable way, or summarize some conclusions from the last 8 pages of discussion in terms of fuel pump upgrade options pros and cons. Thanks in advance! |
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