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Vishnu ST and Vargas TT BBQ Shootout
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03-30-2013, 08:20 PM | #23 | |
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03-30-2013, 08:29 PM | #24 | |
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03-30-2013, 08:37 PM | #25 | |
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Running 25psi of boost on a single 62mm or twin GTXs should make ~675whp on a well tuned engine. If you are making 100whp less at the same boost pressure, where do you think that all that extra combustion energy is going? It's not pushing the crown of the piston downwards (into kinetic energy). Instead, it escapes in the form of heat that is then passed into the cooling system and into the exhaust. And 100whp worth of heat A LOT. Engines don't like this. This is why experienced tuners carefully find the balancing point between thermal efficiency and power given a fixed octane restraint. |
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03-30-2013, 08:37 PM | #26 | |
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So if they do follow Shiv's ideology, less boost more ignition advance, wouldn't they lose power? At least on 91oct? I'm not sure what the purpose of the record breaking numbers mean if it has to be de-tuned to be tuned right for street use. |
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03-30-2013, 08:39 PM | #27 | |
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We don't have any EGT data, so to say EGT's are at a dangerous level is fiction. Of course more boost=more heat, but that's not what was originally said. Last edited by E90Company; 03-30-2013 at 08:44 PM.. |
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03-30-2013, 08:40 PM | #28 |
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what do you think ill do with a good tune and just 15psi on the 6466.. ?
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03-30-2013, 08:45 PM | #29 | |
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03-30-2013, 08:46 PM | #30 |
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Just playing devils advocate, how do you know it was 91 octane? haha
Without any EGT temps that is also hearsay if it's within reason or not as well. Lot's of assumptions as usual. I can play both sides of the fence here but that's not my point. Looking in from the outside there are plenty of biases and I feel there are also plenty of assumptions and misconceptions and misunderstandings too. Instead of people arguing , throw up data... or wait till you have it on your own car's to comment. My .02 I've never seen a community so insistent on destroying each other... you guys should help each other. Attacking either vendor's turbo kits, taking it personal, or bashing the competition will never make this community better if you guys keep pushing hard working vendors out.... think about it. It's no wonder very popular companies came into the community and left. IT's the responses and bickering like these threads that will push away the companies trying to make your car's faster. You guys are on the same team... if you want options for your cars stop the BS, positive constructive criticism is all that is needed. Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 03-30-2013 at 08:53 PM.. |
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03-30-2013, 08:48 PM | #31 | |
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Stock frame turbos will see much higher EGT's at higher boost than these twin GTX's however and you know this, no matter how it's tuned. The tuner that tuned the Stage 3 kit on that dyno run has gone through stock frame turbos correct? |
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03-30-2013, 08:50 PM | #32 | |
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03-30-2013, 08:51 PM | #33 | |
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03-30-2013, 08:56 PM | #34 | |
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Another fact is that stock-frame turbos at higher boost generate much higher EGT's than the turbos Vargas is using in the Stage 3 dyno run at the boost that was ran, hence further making Laguna's claim pretty misleading. Again, they are in just the beginning of the tuning phase, and things WILL change at a rapid pace. |
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03-30-2013, 08:57 PM | #35 | |
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I'm just playing devils advocate here. I would much rather see nobody vouching anyone's turbo kit unti they have it on their car. That would be the most unbiased data and opinions one could have. |
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03-30-2013, 09:00 PM | #36 | |
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03-30-2013, 09:00 PM | #37 | |
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And let's be honest, no one is going to post EGT values at this stage of the game. But I will bent you pink slips that making 675whp (91oct+methanol, suitable ignition advance, 24-25psi of boost) generates MUCH lower EGTs than making just 575whp by running the same boost, on 91oct only, with insufficient ignition advance. You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce this. All one needs is a very basic, but sound, understanding of engine theory. Last edited by OpenFlash; 03-30-2013 at 09:05 PM.. |
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03-30-2013, 09:03 PM | #38 | |
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Really the argument is moot. People will still bias against and for Shiv. Same goes for VTT. If I was any customer genuinely interested in upgraded turbo kits, I would sit tight and see how the cards unfold. <---- That's all I'm saying. |
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03-30-2013, 09:10 PM | #39 | |
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To claim EGT's are through the roof as Laguna did in his original post is a very misleading and unfounded statement with no data to back it up. This is the point I am adressing, not the knowledge the tuner of the stage 3 kit has. I'm not sure why that is being brought into the equation here. Again, you keep telling me about basic engine theory. This has nothing to do with what was originally said by Laguna, nor the point I am trying to make. I'm not understanding why you keep deviating from that. Of course EGT's are higher the more boost you run, but 25psi on the GTX's the stage 3 kit was using on that dyno run, EGT's shouldn't really be a concern at that boost level. I'm not the person to talk for the way that kit is/was being tuned, but during that run the turbos are way within their efficiency ranges. I've made my point. I'm out of this thread. |
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03-30-2013, 09:23 PM | #40 | |
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03-30-2013, 09:28 PM | #41 |
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03-30-2013, 09:40 PM | #42 |
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I'm no expert, but I don't think they'd only ever run it on 91oct.. And if that isn't the case how would it then change in states where you can get easy access to 93+ e85?
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03-30-2013, 09:40 PM | #43 | |
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thanks for POLITELY chimming in shiv! always so much smack to be talked lol we just wanna see a race between two of our favorite tunners
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03-30-2013, 09:47 PM | #44 |
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According to the tuner, they ran 24-25psi on 91oct for that disclosed dyno run. From my experience, EGTs get uncomfortably hot when tuning for more than 20-21psi (on suitably sized turbos) on 91oct. On 93, maybe 21-22psi. Running sufficient ignition advance at 24-25psi requires something along the lines of race gas (98 MON and up). Again, you can run higher boost on lower octane but things get ugly in the real world in such scenarios.
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