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Meth with stock downpipes?
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05-31-2011, 02:07 PM | #23 | |
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05-31-2011, 02:19 PM | #24 | |
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05-31-2011, 02:19 PM | #25 |
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From Wiki:
Oxygen storage Three-way catalytic converters can store oxygen from the exhaust gas stream, usually when the air-fuel ratio goes lean.[6] When insufficient oxygen is available from the exhaust stream, the stored oxygen is released and consumed (see cerium(IV) oxide). This leanness occurs either when oxygen derived from NOx reduction is unavailable or certain maneuvers such as hard acceleration enrich the mixture beyond the ability of the converter to supply oxygen. Also one thing you can clear up for me if im wrong... My understanding is that the precious metal catalysts (platinum, rhodium or whatever) in our cats are never consumed. they are catalysts. When the catt becomes ineffective, it is probably through heat cycling/ excessive heat and deposits from exhaust materials that deteriorate the precious metals. It doesnt become ineffective due to higher octane actually... in fact higher octane = lower EGT meaning maybe longer catt lifespan (youll probably run cooler when pushing the car). The only reason why higher octane would lower the lifespan is due to materials or simply race conditions where you push the car harder so EGTs are still higher than street conditions. |
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05-31-2011, 03:59 PM | #26 | |
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Once a customers car came in with really bad leaky injectors. The car had lots of unburned hydrocarbons and it caused the cat to get extremely hot and literally melt. So I've seen what too many hydrocarbons can do to a cat. Meth is like having more hydrocarbons, the temperature of the gas may be lower but the concentration of HC's is higher. I'm wondering if its just a myth that meth will cause the cats to go out sooner. I'm curious as to if there is any scientific data that could support this. |
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05-31-2011, 04:47 PM | #27 | |
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Looks unavoidable. Either the ECU will run super rich without meth because of higher IATs, or the meth will add to the HCs but lower EGTs.. |
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05-31-2011, 04:56 PM | #28 | |
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when tunned you are running much richer than stock, plus the added fuel to support higher hp. If HC destroy cats, there's no avoiding it when tuned. EDIT: Nevermind, you are talking about octane... sorry. |
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05-31-2011, 05:11 PM | #29 | |
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I tried to explain all of this to these guys but gave up..this is what i said the turbos would see ridcuolus duty cycles b/c of how hard they woruld work and longevity of your engine/turbos will be an issue... now u have heard it from someone who is more expert..still think you will get longevity with.. meth 16 psi and stock DPs?? |
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05-31-2011, 05:15 PM | #30 | |
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Once i saw that post i knew it was not gonna be worth my time..but some people who know their stuff have finally chimed in..Some of the statements that are being made w regards to stock DPs and boost greater than 16 psi n meth are grossly inacurrate..the DPs will run so hard and hot and could break and the turbos will be absolutely stressed.. Like trying to blow a golf ball outta of straw.. IDK what all this VE this and PE that is all about..I am not an dynamic fluid physicist..so I am not going to pretend to even try to follow what was said, but i wager no else here is a dynamic fluid physicist either.. Bottom line there is a reason why the top tuners running aggressive tunes (above 16 psi) mandate that you use catless DP..if you wanna run stock DPs be my guest.. just make sure you post what happens a year or two from now. |
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05-31-2011, 05:20 PM | #31 | |
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Yes... for now.
The stock cats might take a dump eventually. It is not good for the catalytic converters to run meth but you "can" do it. IF they do fail I will have them replaced and likely get aftermarket DP after. Quote:
The only way you will improve efficiency of the turbo's and have them work "less" for the power is reduce the pressure drop at the intercooler, reduce the back pressure from the restrictive exhaust and feed them cooler air. As I mentioned the methanol cooling pre throttle body has no positive effect on the turbo's. Methanol pre throttle body doesnt touch the turbo's. If anything with pre throttle body methanol injection you are "over-working" the turbo's with the increased boost that you are now able to run. From a longevity stand-point on the turbo's themselves, stay stock. Motor wise: Keep your AFR in check, keep your EGT low, avoid knock, avoid timing drop outs. The more power, the more heat, the more wear. Hoping for more power and believing you are not causing more wear is selfish. It's not possible |
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05-31-2011, 05:23 PM | #32 |
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JB4 upgrade for sale
Hey guys, sorry for posting this here, but in a way, it's kind of like my departing post. Unfortunately, I sold my 335i, and I sold my JB3. I have the jb4 upgrade available. Never used. And didn't sell it with my JB3.
I am willing to accept $90 or best offer. Please let me know if you're interested. I am located in Canada. Thanks. I just couldn't handle the amount of time I spent in the shop. I loved the car when it worked! |
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05-31-2011, 05:41 PM | #33 | |
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My point is that DPs at similar boost will actually increase stress due to the increased power, efficiency, flow, etc. Turbo stress is not a factor of hardware as much as the power, torque target you are trying to reach. |
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05-31-2011, 05:42 PM | #34 | |
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05-31-2011, 06:18 PM | #36 | |
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05-31-2011, 06:36 PM | #37 | |
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Downpipes arent necessary, but they are recommended. Just be aware over time you have the ability to destroy your catalytic converters. You will have faster spool, and more power throughout the mid-range with downpipes. I've been running a tune and methanol setup for 2 years but that is only about 12,000 miles for this car. I would say around the 30,000 mile mark running methanol the catalytic converters would likely fail. I know a guy that ran into that problem around that mileage. You start getting the rotten egg smell. |
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05-31-2011, 06:48 PM | #38 |
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Ok, I'm about to pull the trigger on a meth kit with safeties of course. Need one more thing clarified. I read on this forum--> "pumps start to go bad as early as 2 years, depending on the meth mix you are using. So, buying a new pump every couple of years would be a downside, but that is heavily outweighed by the benefits."
If this statement is true can someone please explain why meth would accelerate premature failure of the HPFP? Is it the Increased boost people add while running meth that is making the pumps fail faster by requiring more fuel or is it the meth itself?
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05-31-2011, 07:02 PM | #39 | |
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2018 X3 M40i - JB4 / BMS Billet Intake
2015 M4 6MT - JB4 / Gintani DPs 2005 M3 6MT - VF Engineering S/C / KW / StopTech / Dinan / HPF Stage III (removed)- Track Toy |
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05-31-2011, 07:10 PM | #40 | |
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05-31-2011, 07:17 PM | #41 | ||
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I am not confused at all..Jeff clearly stated I was correct and I knew i was correct b4 that..and you just proved my point a more efficient system overall at the same power level will decrease turbo stress hence increase longevity, turbos running 16psi will see harsh duty cycles w stock DPs, even more so w meth..so your point is moot..u have gone WAY off topic here im not sure why.. The OP clearly asked: post 1 Quote:
Why are you hopelessly arguing something that has no basis in fact.. - Stock DPs plus boost > 16 psi + meth = higher duty cycles and wear - Catless DPs plus boost > 16 psi + meth will allow for less duty cycles hence less wear.. This is the EXACT reason why almost EVERY tuner for this car mandates use of catless DPs at these boost levels..and even more so w meth. If you want to run this setup fine..but dont advise the OP incorrectly that it safer to do so w Stock DPs then catless DPs. |
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05-31-2011, 07:20 PM | #42 |
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Your right! That makes sense. Don't know why I assumed he was talking about the HPFP.
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05-31-2011, 07:23 PM | #43 | |
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Last edited by tibra1; 05-31-2011 at 07:38 PM.. |
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05-31-2011, 07:33 PM | #44 |
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Without a tune and with catless DPs and better FMIC your duty cycles on the turbos would drop to nothing and operate more freely and easily..not sure if thats what u meant by efficiently? but longevity a big yes
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