[seatown_guy]

I look at several guy's numbers on this, and everyone on here seems to have gotten a better deal than me. What is a great price for this package, and what is a fair price? And, then there's my price?

I got:

325i Alpine White (30,900)
Auto Tranny (1275)
Power Seats (995)
Cold Weather (1000)
Park Distance (350)
Xenon Lights (800)
Logic7 Sound (1200)
Sport Package (1600)

Total MSRP = $38120 + Destination Fee of $695 = 38815.

The final negotiated price is $38,000.

Total due at signing = $3000 including:

$1500 cap. reduction
$600 refundable deposit
$600 advance payment
$300 taxes and fees

Monthly payment = $600 ($371 depreciation, $178 rent, $50 tax)

Other info I can pull off my signed contract:

2.9% interest rate
62% residual
36 month lease
15,000 miles per year

There is a bank fee of $825.

If I am really being taken here, please tell me. I'll call the dealer right now and tell them to keep the $1000 deposit and keep the car. I am not about to be taken, just not my style. Now, when I ran these numbers before I got around a $500 payment. But, changing from 12k miles to 15k miles raised the lease payment. Then taxes were added on to get to the $600. I am just seeing all these guys on here get 330s with more options for this price!

Now, if $540 or $550 is the so-so price, who cares. I make that difference in an hour's work. But, I still don't like the feeling that some new guy (who's already quite and gone since my purchase) took me for a ride.

I hope I get several opinions on this.

Aaron

[puck724]

i dont know too much about leasing and money facotrs and what not but yo uare paying more than me each month and i am buying the car rather than leasing. i have always been under the impression that leases tend to be cheaper than a buy. my specs are in my sig.

[TD]

Doesn't smell like a good deal, considering what I'm going to be paying for my 330i.

To have that kind of payment even after a $1500 cap cost reduction is absurd.

I'll drop your numbers into my lease spreadsheet and see what you *should* be paying.

Right now, I can tell you that you should be able to negotiate a better sales price, the acquisition fee (what you're calling "bank fee") is marked up, and WTF are the $300 in "taxes and fees".

[seatown_guy]

Thanks for doing that TD. I'll take those numbers into the dealership this weekend. If I feel like I'm not getting a good deal, I'll threated to scratch the order.

$300 in taxes and fees on the reduction: $150 in taxes on the cap reduction and $150 in license plates.

[ru with me drhoo]

Doesn't sound great on first notice. You can compare with my lease, but remember that I ordered in February, when 330 leases were a much better deal than 325's. Don't know what the comparo is now:

330i, 3 years, 36,000 mi
Sport, Cold Weather, Comfort Access, Sirius, Assist.
MSRP $42215
Negotiated price $40215
Residual 64%
MF .215%
Tax 6.75% (Have to pay tax on whole price in Illinois!)
Cap reduction/Money down $0
Acquisition $695
Doc fee $57
License/title $143

Monthly payment with taxes $613 (this would be under $540 if it weren't for the taxes, or if I paid the taxes up front.)

[Lucid4000]

You are paying alot! I am getting a 330i and getting a much better deal than that. I don't want to really say what I am paying but I am not even at 500.

[TD]

I jsut dropped your numbers and tweaked to get what looks like your terms. In addition to what I already mentioned (which I confirmed), it looks like they're also marked up the money factor by a whole point.

Here's what you *should* be paying (IMO)-

(I was too lazy to pull your true invoice price so I used $1500 under MSRP for a true fair sales price)

Sales price-$37,315

If you actually want to capitalize the sales tax, your cap cost s/b $39,740 (never pay any extra cap cost reduction).

Using a correct, unmarked up MF of 0.00195, you get a monthly payment of $559.84 .

Correcting the security deposit amt to $550, the acquisition fee to $625 and tags to $200, you would fork up $1934 at delivery which includes the 1st month's payment.

If you didn't cap the sales tax, your payment would be $478/mo with ~$4300 due at signing.

Personally, I think $50/mo is material (it's $600/yr or $1800 over the term).

Why deliberately overpay by $1800?

[bavarian19]

$0 payments for me for the rest of the time I own this car

[TD]

Originally Posted by ru with me drhoo

Doesn't sound great on first notice. You can compare with my lease, but remember that I ordered in February, when 330 leases were a much better deal than 325's. Don't know what the comparo is now:

330i, 3 years, 36,000 mi
Sport, Cold Weather, Comfort Access, Sirius, Assist.
MSRP $42215
Negotiated price $40215
Residual 64%
MF .215%
Tax 6.75% (Have to pay tax on whole price in Illinois!)
Cap reduction/Money down $0
Acquisition $695
Doc fee $57
License/title $143

Monthly payment with taxes $613 (this would be under $540 if it weren't for the taxes, or if I paid the taxes up front.)

My 330i has an MSRP $42,165 and a negotiated price of $39,990 (sport package, premium package, heated seats, metallic paint, satellite radio prep).

Lease, 36 mos, 15K miles/yr - 62% residual, 0.00195 MF

Paying sales tax (5%), acq fee ($625), sec deposit ($550) and tags up front.

No cap cost reduction

$513/mo.

[seatown_guy]

Ok, so if I go in there this Saturday and raise hell...what should I ask for?

I already gave them $1000 as a deposit. So, I owe $2000 on the drive off. If I get them to waive that $2k, now is it a fair deal?

Or, let's say I still give them the remaining $2k...what should my monthly payments be for a fair deal? I'm not looking for the very best deal on the West Coast, but I want to feel good about my purchase. $500 a month sounds like what I should shoot for, but that's not going to happen is it?

This sucks...really going to change that feeling driving off with a BMW. Makes me upset that I am paying too much.

[seatown_guy]

TD, you stated:

If you didn't cap the sales tax, your payment would be $478/mo with ~$4300 due at signing.

My taxes are built into my payments - is that what your asking? Those taxes are $4500. So, my $38k price, plus $825 aquisition, plus $4500 Washington State Tax.

[TD]

Originally Posted by seatown_guy

TD, you stated:

If you didn't cap the sales tax, your payment would be $478/mo with ~$4300 due at signing.

My taxes are built into my payments - is that what your asking? Those taxes are $4500. So, my $38k price, plus $825 aquisition, plus $4500 Washington State Tax.

Yup. Earlier in my post I say what they are if you cap the tax. The payment would be $559.84.

Which is why I reference the $50/mo delta in my last paragraph.

Just re-read my post. There are a bunch of datapoints in there.

I would guess you could close the gap somewhat without too much effort.

[seatown_guy]

Thanks - this is my first lease, so I'm new to knowing all this. But, I'm 25 and figured this is the time to try a lease. If it sucks, I'll be out by 28, when I need to start getting serious about life...

So, I'll ask for this:

I still owe $2000 at deliver.
I want my payments to be $550.

That would be great if they went for that. Would you say that's a good deal if I get there?

Thanks again for your help. Can you email me the excel file to print out for them?

[TD]

Originally Posted by seatown_guy

Thanks - this is my first lease, so I'm new to knowing all this. But, I'm 25 and figured this is the time to try a lease. If it sucks, I'll be out by 28, when I need to start getting serious about life...

So, I'll ask for this:

I still owe $2000 at deliver.
I want my payments to be $550.

That would be great if they went for that. Would you say that's a good deal if I get there?

Thanks again for your help. Can you email me the excel file to print out for them?

If you got there ($560 not $550), it would be a top 1% deal. You could nickel and dime your way to a slightly better deal.

But you need to have your facts together as to why their payment is too high. The payment drops by $40/mo and the due at signing drops by $1K.

Honestly, you should brush up on leasing before going back in so that you can talk to this better. Just asking (demanding?) for the payment to go down by $X isn't likely to gain much traction on it's own.

[seatown_guy]

Ok, I'll read up somewhere for terminology, etc. Sounds like I might owe you a gift certificate to a nice resturant in MD!

1. How do I argue the lower money factor rate, since they never revealed that to me in the first place?

2. How do we "guess" what they had the MF at?

3. I'll try to get the aquisition fee lowered - what's a good arguement for that? Is $625 industry standard?

4. Where can I get the invoice price? I'll argue the starting point too. Plus, I can go backwards from the MSRP like you did. I'll use other's posts on here to prove that the $37,315 figure is fair - for both parties.

Thanks again!

Aaron

[Romulus]

they didn't come off the msrp at all? i thought even with leasing you negotiated the price of the car (never leased, so i dunno).

i'm buying my 330 (no options) and pay 590/mo and only 1k down

[TD]

Originally Posted by seatown_guy

Ok, I'll read up somewhere for terminology, etc. Sounds like I might owe you a gift certificate to a nice resturant in MD!

1. How do I argue the lower money factor rate, since they never revealed that to me in the first place?

2. How do we "guess" what they had the MF at?

3. I'll try to get the aquisition fee lowered - what's a good arguement for that? Is $625 industry standard?

4. Where can I get the invoice price? I'll argue the starting point too. Plus, I can go backwards from the MSRP like you did. I'll use other's posts on here to prove that the $37,315 figure is fair - for both parties.

Thanks again!

Aaron

Ideally, with the purchase price, you should go UP from invoice. Typically $1000-1500 over invoice is a very very good deal. Some guys claim to have gotten $500 over invoice, but those are rare deals (and ones that really don't make much sense from a dealership perspective).

Get invoice prices from edmunds.com or kbb.com.

The acq fee from BMWFS is $625. Dealers regularly mark it up to $825. That $200 is pure profit. You can negotiate that.

The current money factor might not be 0.195% any more (it was in Feb). I'm sure someone here could confirm what it is in March. (Honestly, since I negotiated mine in Feb, I never bothered to find out what the rates are in March.) They may claim they can't change the MF or acq fee but if they say that, they're lying. Threaten to walk

And they can't keep your deposit, even if you walk. By law, they are required to refund it to you.

[seatown_guy]

Thanks again. I signed on Feb 4th, so my MF should be .195% then. I'll try to split the aqu fee with them if they don't take the whole $200 off.

Edmunds says $35,600 invoice. I'll shoot for $36,500 and settle for $37,000.

I also filled out the form and requested quotes from other area dealerships. I told them the numbers I wanted. If they can do it, to fax me the offer and I'll come down in person. We'll see what happens.

[kickpoint]

TD - First, there seem to be a couple of us from MD here on this forum. Small world. Second, the MF is the one area that relates and will vary based on your credit right? Lastly, why not capitalize the taxes, tags, and other fees? Doesn't it just follow the same methodology of not reduce cap cost on the car itself. By paying this upfront you are reducing your monthly at the expense of your out of pocket cash. I what I'm getting at is if you don't pay any cap cost reduction, then why would you pay for the taxes, etc?

[Sp82]

I think you are paying alot, especially on a lease.

[Sp82]

surely, you should be able to get that to around 500 somthing

your getttin robbed!!