[Gossypiboma]

Originally Posted by jippii ensio

Could it be Progman/ISTA version related? Do you know yours?

I think this is one of the ideas that I have seen floating around. I have no idea what my version is though.

[DallasBoosted]

Originally Posted by BigBoosting

I think this is one of the ideas that I have seen floating around. I have no idea what my version is though.

How would we even find out what version ours is?

[Wedge1967]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

BMS provides their backend flash tune free of charge, and ignoring the VANOS and advance benefits it's only needed for cars running heavy mixtures of E85 without meth or large turbos where the OEM flash is maxing out fuel trims.

Same with the PROcede Mike, I agree if you want to make big numbers with e85, you need to flash regardless of which flash solution you go with. I think it's great that BMS isn't charging on top of the cost of the COBB AP.

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Currently the only way to load their free flash is with a Cobb AP. Because that is the only at home flashing solution that is currently available. Maybe some day some other at home solution will come out that is less expensive?

I just find it ironic BMS turned to COBB for a solution. I'm not saying it's a bad choice considering COBB has really come a long way from the time I was in the market for a tune. I can honestly say that if I was in the market today I would more than likely be running COBB. I'm actually still thinking about buying an AP just so I can play with it.

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

I will say it's a lot better than shipping your DME out every time you need a flash update, being without a car for days, hoping it all goes to plan.

Haha, I agree. I'm glad it's only a 10 hour drive. LOL I don't have much of an option unless I keep my little one at home. Don't live within the Portland home region for car-to-go so I can park a Smart outside my door for the next couple of days.

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Your PROcede flash is different for 100% E85 vs. 50% E85 so what happens if you decide not to run 100% E85 some day? Or the gas station runs out? You ship the DME back for a few more days of down time? Or what about when Shiv adds some new super-dooper table unlocking more power? You ship the same back and wait a few days again? Then when you go in for service then what? You reconnect all your fuel lines to stock, hope nothing leaks, and ship it back again for an OEM flash? It's simply not a practical approach not to mention removing the DME itself is not a super easy feat.

Wow, I'm not sure where you got your information Mike, but you couldn't be more wrong. Who told you the flash for 50% is different than it is for 100%? My car runs just fine with the PROcede Flash on pump fuel, just need to change maps and with the Flex Fuel kit the PROcede does that for me in Map3 when the Ethanol % drops below a specified %. Without the Flex Fuel kit, you just need to change maps just like you would with the JB.

Sorry, can't stop laughing at your assumptions... That would be like me telling everyone the BMS flash with COBB won't run on pump gas... LOL So every time you run out of e85 you have to flash your DME before you drive your car again...

Service isn't an issue because the PROcede Flash is a copy of our original factory flash. The tables are updated keeping the flash serial intact unlike the COBB flash. So the flash is transparent to the dealership. Only downside is if the dealer decides to flash your DME it would wipe out the PROcede Flash.

Why would I be messing with my fuel lines? Only those (a hand full of users) with Flex Fuel kits would need to remove it for service. I think those who don't work on their own cars would be reluctant to buy this option. Only if something major happens and then it's a stock fuel line coupler which shouldn't give anyone any issues. I can understand your confusion being you're not familiar with the product.

Also, anyone who has done the piggy install more than once won't have an issue pulling the DME. But I do agree, shipping the DME would make me worried. Try explaining that one to the dealer if it were lost in shipping. LOL

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

On the costs the APs sell for $8xx.00 new but $600-650 used, so when you turn the lease back in, etc, you recover most of your money anyway.

I agree, buying a used one is the way to go and honestly I'm looking to pick one up myself. I'm just waiting for someone who really needs the money so I can get it on the low end...

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

On the tuning end for heavily modified cars the JB4 offers good performance advances over the flash itself. Absolute boost targeting, auto tuning, meth support, gear dependent boost control, on the fly adjustment, your "smoke and mirror" gauges which are very nicely done on the JB4, support for boost levels up to 25psi, etc. And many cars don't even need the BMS flash. It's just those who run out of fuel from running big E85 mixtures or large turbos.

Mike

Yeah, the same can be said regard to the PROcede as well. Not to mention a good majority of users who are vocal here are in that later part of tuning and need the flash to support the power we're making today.

But... other than auto tuning, meth support, and gauge hijacking isn't all of the other stuff just fluff that the COBB can do anyway? I'm not saying the JB4 or PROcede will be replaced by COBB anytime soon, but I really like what I'm seeing from COBB and unless Terry and Shiv step up I'm thinking COBB will end up dominating this market also. One big advantage BMS has today is the price point. For those just starting out, having limited to no knowledge of what options are available lends itself to the attractive pricing of the JB4. In my eyes the COBB AP has so much more to offer someone who wants to really tune their car rather than relying on a base tune that was developed out of Socal. I know a lot of people who have switched from piggy to flash recently and it seems to be a trend that keeps progressing.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

But... other than auto tuning, meth support, and gauge hijacking isn't all of the other stuff just fluff that the COBB can do anyway? I'm not saying the JB4 or PROcede will be replaced by COBB anytime soon, but I really like what I'm seeing from COBB and unless Terry and Shiv step up I'm thinking COBB will end up dominating this market also.

On the PROcede flash I only know what they list on the order page. It says to specify whether you want the flex fuel or gasoline version when ordering. It also says the DME will only make 2psi with the PROcede flash is in place. Most of the cars are out of warranty anyway so I don't think it's a big deal and I don't see the dealer would miss it's only making 2psi if they went to road test it. On the flex fuel sensor my point was it's a physical piece of metal in the engine bay connected to fuel lines so you'd have to remove it for warranty work, service, etc.

On the JB4 if you are using meth on OEM turbos you don't need the BMS flash to use E85. It's only for cars not using meth running 50% or more E85 (or the rare car that can only use 30% E85). The meth basically augments the fuel system and serves the same purpose.

Regarding flash vs. piggy tuning in general I've used both and the boost control and features are much better on the piggyback side. The JB4 is nicely setup to work alone, or in conjunction with the BMS flash or any flash you want to use. It's not really worth getting in to detail in this post but using the piggyback for boost control + features + fine tuning and flash for fueling + advance is really proving to be a solid combo. Whether you use the JB4 + BMS flash or PROcede + Vishnu flash.

Mike

[marconi118]

i have the same problem on 05/07 e92 never flashed, pre 29.2 msd80 procede stage3?

sending the dme to the states from europe is not practical

possible to overcome this without any flash?

[Gossypiboma]

To add more info to this thread. I just got my flashed DME back and my first couple logs look good.

Example. This is the stage 2 map on the E85 50/50 tune.

[AK 335i]

are you the big ape that put e85 in an n54?

[DallasBoosted]

Originally Posted by BigBoosting

To add more info to this thread. I just got my flashed DME back and my first couple logs look good.

Example. This is the stage 2 map on the E85 50/50 tune.

Thats good, I'm sure with the flash the problem is fixed.

I don't think it's anything wrong with the procede per se; just something up with certain DME's that need a flash.

My issue has been fully resolved by flashing the Cobb tune as well.

[sickem]

Nice log!

[Aced16]

Big Boosting, My car does the same thing with the AFR where it drops super low, then jumps and then starts lowering again. Any idea why that occurs?

[NiVeDh]

Originally Posted by diddlkiss

?

That log you posted is showing the same issues that I have had recently. Any resolution?

Here are some of my logs, also posted on this thread.

[Dave W.]

The log shows a big difference in bank 1 and bank 2. Usually it's caused by a mechanical issue, such as a bad injector, bad coil, or an O2 sensor going bad. Have you looked into these yet?

[NiVeDh]

Originally Posted by Dave W.

The log shows a big difference in bank 1 and bank 2. Usually it's caused by a mechanical issue, such as a bad injector, bad coil, or an O2 sensor going bad. Have you looked into these yet?

I was going to look into the hardware, even bought replacement O2 sensors. Before I started throwing on parts hoping to fix the issue, I tried the Cobb AP and the car runs perfectly on it so I am sort of conflicted. I might replace the O2 sensors just because the car has 65K miles on it and see if that helps.

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by NiVeDh

I was going to look into the hardware, even bought replacement O2 sensors. Before I started throwing on parts hoping to fix the issue, I tried the Cobb AP and the car runs perfectly on it so I am sort of conflicted. I might replace the O2 sensors just because the car has 65K miles on it and see if that helps.

Just stack them if you already have both... works great. Below is a log from yesterday on 40% E85 and meth. I'm now only running meth >10psi and max 50% DC in the mid range ramped to 70% in the top... I'm loving it. Lot less meth usage and everything is very stable. I do have what seems to be a slow bank 2 o2 sensor. I purchased a replacement to try first... its more visible if zoomed in and noticable on/off meth.

[NiVeDh]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

Just stack them if you already have both... works great. Below is a log from yesterday on 40% E85 and meth. I'm now only running meth >10psi and max 50% DC in the mid range ramped to 70% in the top... I'm loving it. Lot less meth usage and everything is very stable. I do have what seems to be a slow bank 2 o2 sensor. I purchased a replacement to try first... its more visible if zoomed in and noticable on/off meth.

That looks great. I may have to go that route as we discussed over e-mail earlier. I will be in touch!

[sickem]

Originally Posted by NiVeDh

I was going to look into the hardware, even bought replacement O2 sensors. Before I started throwing on parts hoping to fix the issue, I tried the Cobb AP and the car runs perfectly on it so I am sort of conflicted. I might replace the O2 sensors just because the car has 65K miles on it and see if that helps.

fwiw i had my primary O2's replaced at 57k mi and the tech said they were in pretty bad shape. not a bad idea. I found out later they'd have been covered under CPO warranty...

[Tzu]

Josh, in terms of cobbs authority as the base flash on your car, has anything changed since your post on the other forum?

[Joshboody]

Yeah, I've kept the basic relationship since stacking... just with more tweaks now of course.

Replaced my turbos recently and was a bitch dialing in boost (very tight)... my PID is nothing like the stock procede maps and may need a little more finetuning. I'm still on the stock DPs also, but should put the ARs on again soon. I really like the setup, and I'm no stranger to using solely ATR.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

Just stack them if you already have both... works great. Below is a log from yesterday on 40% E85 and meth. I'm now only running meth >10psi and max 50% DC in the mid range ramped to 70% in the top... I'm loving it. Lot less meth usage and everything is very stable. I do have what seems to be a slow bank 2 o2 sensor. I purchased a replacement to try first... its more visible if zoomed in and noticable on/off meth.

Wow.....those fuel trims parallel each other so closely.

Is that the stacked Cobb flash controlling fueling like that or did you adjust the procede tables somehow?

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by Ilma

Wow.....those fuel trims parallel each other so closely.

Is that the stacked Cobb flash controlling fueling like that or did you adjust the procede tables somehow?

I still use procede OL, but a lot less than the stock maps. AFR is zeroed on procede. Basically works the same as without Cobb just reduced biasing, CPS.

The parallel fuel trims is more a result of the hardware and meth setup. Trims around 0% is the tunes working together.

[Ilma]

Originally Posted by Joshboody

I still use procede OL, but a lot less than the stock maps. AFR is zeroed on procede. Basically works the same as without Cobb just reduced biasing, CPS.

The parallel fuel trims is more a result of the hardware and meth setup. Trims around 0% is the tunes working together.

I recall you were playing around with meth nozzle location......is that what you mean by hardware setup?

Have you relocated your nozzles by tapping into the intercooler?

[Joshboody]

Originally Posted by Ilma

I recall you were playing around with meth nozzle location......is that what you mean by hardware setup?

Have you relocated your nozzles by tapping into the intercooler?

I think its more a result of the new turbos/WGs. LTFTs will help pararrel your trims, but this happens mostly off boost accounting for general bank differences (injectors, air flow). But on boost the WG differences have an effect on airflow, and LTFT don't adjust for these short time periods.

Meth nozzles are still in the post IC up pipe.