[ATP]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

Yes sir! Keep an eye out in a couple days!

Any idea how many spots? I have been waiting on this to pick up your DPs too and would hate to miss it.

[Tiago@VRSF]

We're probably going to limit them to about 20-25 intercoolers due to limited supply.

[dfv2]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

While I definitely agree that these logs are ideal to compare the intercooler to other intercoolers, the results could never be compared equally unless the competitions intercoolers were tested at the same time under the exact same conditions on the exact same car.

Again, I'll still be more than happy to provide logs but in order for a fair comparison, we'll have to use the same method our competitors use to judge how well the product works.

My post was half satire, half honest, but I was actually suggesting that someone (could be you) do a few pulls with your 7 incher and then strap on an AMS core and do the same few pulls, same temps, roadway, etc.

Comparing those results, if they were in your favor, would pretty much silence the naysayers. That's a keynote if, and do enjoy the innuendos

[Tiago@VRSF]

If I happen to stumble upon a 7" AMS I'll go ahead and compare the two

[badfish718]

Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF

Definitely going to be less than $500 and anyone who's purchased our DP's will qualify for an additional discount as well!

WIN!

[oma3710]

Will there be a big difference btw 5' and 7' performance wise?

[Tiago@VRSF]

The gains will mostly be experienced on someone maxing out the stock turbos (pushing them out of their efficiency range) or on upgraded turbo/turbos. Otherwise you won't really notice much of a difference.

[JC335xi]

So how about that group buy?

[Tiago@VRSF]

Just waiting to take some pics of the intercooler to make an official post & we'll be ready to go! We've been incredibly busy lately with record sales so it's hard to find time for the little things!

[TunedM2C]

What does the 5" & 7" weigh in at?

[ksalih]

OP, so no logs?

[F80M]

How is the exhaust coming along? Waiting to see that too... I like doing weight reduction while modding.

[oma3710]

Any Logs Yet????

[sickem]

Originally Posted by oma3710

Any Logs Yet????

As a casual observer with no skin in the game (still running stock IC but will be in the market soon for an upgrade and I am ALL FOR supporting new vendors and creating competition) but I'm disappointed that VRSF isn't taking a more data-driven approach here to marketing their new product.

Seems to me they're hiding behind the "all logs are different" defense. Step up to the plate, spend some R&D money to buy competitor FMICs, do a head-to-head comparo, then post the results. It's kind of funny that you scoff at doing that. .

Hell, even if the more expensive options beat you out you can still justify it by saying how much cheaper your product is and making the case that the extra $400+ isn't justified by the incremental improvement in performance. Instead, by dodging the data collection, you've made me very skeptical of your product and given me the impression you're just targeting the "anything is better than stock" crowd...a bucket I certainly don't put myself into and not a sustainable business strategy IMO. Until I see some data, I'll be saving my pennies for a Helix unit.

[akotten]

Originally Posted by sickem

As a casual observer with no skin in the game (still running stock IC but will be in the market soon for an upgrade and I am ALL FOR supporting new vendors and creating competition) but I'm disappointed that VRSF isn't taking a more data-driven approach here to marketing their new product.

Seems to me they're hiding behind the "all logs are different" defense. Step up to the plate, spend some R&D money to buy competitor FMICs, do a head-to-head comparo, then post the results. It's kind of funny that you scoff at doing that. .

Hell, even if the more expensive options beat you out you can still justify it by saying how much cheaper your product is and making the case that the extra $400+ isn't justified by the incremental improvement in performance. Instead, by dodging the data collection, you've made me very skeptical of your product and given me the impression you're just targeting the "anything is better than stock" crowd...a bucket I certainly don't put myself into and not a sustainable business strategy IMO. Until I see some data, I'll be saving my pennies for a Helix unit.

If I had the money, I would totally do a full R&D study. I think it would be fun to use a couple differential pressure sensors, some thermocouples, etc and collect actual data in a controlled environment. Then rinse and repeat on different cores and note the differences. You wouldn't even need a car for it technically. I would just want to know the amount of energy each is capable of rejecting and the pressure drop across the core.

[Gugs]

^ agree. If they are a "so called" company that does R&D then what's spending a couple thousand and buying up some competitors Intercoolers and testing them on the same car in the same conditions. That alone will boost your sales, speak for your work and pay for itself.

But that is just using Their logic of testing. lol

[oma3710]

Originally Posted by sickem

As a casual observer with no skin in the game (still running stock IC but will be in the market soon for an upgrade and I am ALL FOR supporting new vendors and creating competition) but I'm disappointed that VRSF isn't taking a more data-driven approach here to marketing their new product.

Seems to me they're hiding behind the "all logs are different" defense. Step up to the plate, spend some R&D money to buy competitor FMICs, do a head-to-head comparo, then post the results. It's kind of funny that you scoff at doing that. .

Hell, even if the more expensive options beat you out you can still justify it by saying how much cheaper your product is and making the case that the extra $400+ isn't justified by the incremental improvement in performance. Instead, by dodging the data collection, you've made me very skeptical of your product and given me the impression you're just targeting the "anything is better than stock" crowd...a bucket I certainly don't put myself into and not a sustainable business strategy IMO. Until I see some data, I'll be saving my pennies for a Helix unit.

+1

[ATP]

Originally Posted by sickem

As a casual observer with no skin in the game (still running stock IC but will be in the market soon for an upgrade and I am ALL FOR supporting new vendors and creating competition) but I'm disappointed that VRSF isn't taking a more data-driven approach here to marketing their new product.

Seems to me they're hiding behind the "all logs are different" defense. Step up to the plate, spend some R&D money to buy competitor FMICs, do a head-to-head comparo, then post the results. It's kind of funny that you scoff at doing that. .

Hell, even if the more expensive options beat you out you can still justify it by saying how much cheaper your product is and making the case that the extra $400+ isn't justified by the incremental improvement in performance. Instead, by dodging the data collection, you've made me very skeptical of your product and given me the impression you're just targeting the "anything is better than stock" crowd...a bucket I certainly don't put myself into and not a sustainable business strategy IMO. Until I see some data, I'll be saving my pennies for a Helix unit.

Originally Posted by Gugs

^ agree. If they are a "so called" company that does R&D then what's spending a couple thousand and buying up some competitors Intercoolers and testing them on the same car in the same conditions. That alone will boost your sales, speak for your work and pay for itself.

But that is just using Their logic of testing. lol

Originally Posted by oma3710

+1

Why is all of this, or any for that matter, being directed at VRSF? Show me where ANY BMW Vendor has provided this data, I'll wait....

Sure, it would be nice to see but shitting all over VRSF for not doing something that no one else has done either is BS.

Helix offered to do an "independent" test if other companies lent out their ICs and no other company jumped in. If anything, people should be calling for this comparison and not for one company to shell out thousands to to run one themselves.

VRSF has a good rep elsewhere for their products and FMICs. Go do a Google search if you want to see some data, plenty of forums with happy customers. If you can't, or won't, do that then shut up and wait till the FMIC hits the market. There will be plenty of people who will provide logs, good or bad.

[LivnLife31]

Originally Posted by ATP

Why is all of this, or any for that matter, being directed at VRSF? Show me where ANY BMW Vendor has provided this data, I'll wait....

Sure, it would be nice to see but shitting all over VRSF for not doing something that no one else has done either is BS.

Helix offered to do an "independent" test if other companies lent out their ICs and no other company jumped in. If anything, people should be calling for this comparison and not for one company to shell out thousands to to run one themselves.

VRSF has a good rep elsewhere for their products and FMICs. Go do a Google search if you want to see some data, plenty of forums with happy customers. If you can't, or won't, do that then shut up and wait till the FMIC hits the market. There will be plenty of people who will provide logs, good or bad.

+1

[e1001usa]

Originally Posted by sickem

As a casual observer with no skin in the game (still running stock IC but will be in the market soon for an upgrade and I am ALL FOR supporting new vendors and creating competition) but I'm disappointed that VRSF isn't taking a more data-driven approach here to marketing their new product.

Seems to me they're hiding behind the "all logs are different" defense. Step up to the plate, spend some R&D money to buy competitor FMICs, do a head-to-head comparo, then post the results. It's kind of funny that you scoff at doing that. .

Hell, even if the more expensive options beat you out you can still justify it by saying how much cheaper your product is and making the case that the extra $400+ isn't justified by the incremental improvement in performance. Instead, by dodging the data collection, you've made me very skeptical of your product and given me the impression you're just targeting the "anything is better than stock" crowd...a bucket I certainly don't put myself into and not a sustainable business strategy IMO. Until I see some data, I'll be saving my pennies for a Helix unit.

+10000000

[sickem]

Originally Posted by ATP

Why is all of this, or any for that matter, being directed at VRSF? Show me where ANY BMW Vendor has provided this data, I'll wait....

Sure, it would be nice to see but shitting all over VRSF for not doing something that no one else has done either is BS.

Helix offered to do an "independent" test if other companies lent out their ICs and no other company jumped in. If anything, people should be calling for this comparison and not for one company to shell out thousands to to run one themselves.

VRSF has a good rep elsewhere for their products and FMICs. Go do a Google search if you want to see some data, plenty of forums with happy customers. If you can't, or won't, do that then shut up and wait till the FMIC hits the market. There will be plenty of people who will provide logs, good or bad.

first of all, don't tell me to shut up, pal. it's funny how the people coming out and telling people not to bash this company (which I didn't do btw) are the same folks who bash anyone who expresses an opinion contrary to their own. But I have just as much of a right to express my opinion on this matter as you do...if you don't like it or are just a lemming fanboy of this company then that's your problem.

the difference here is that Helix, et. al. are already industry incumbents with tons of data out there to support their products so they don't have to do their own testing...they already have a reputation with their intercooler. That is part of the cost of doing business of being "fast" follow-on like VRSF...much of the actual R&D has been done for you by those established in that space-your challenge is breaking into market and making a reputation for yourself. Marketing 101 lesson over.

[oma3710]

Originally Posted by sickem

first of all, don't tell me to shut up, pal. it's funny how the people coming out and telling people not to bash this company (which I didn't do btw) are the same folks who bash anyone who expresses an opinion contrary to their own. But I have just as much of a right to express my opinion on this matter as you do...if you don't like it or are just a lemming fanboy of this company then that's your problem.

the difference here is that Helix, et. al. are already industry incumbents with tons of data out there to support their products so they don't have to do their own testing...they already have a reputation with their intercooler. That is part of the cost of doing business of being "fast" follow-on like VRSF...much of the actual R&D has been done for you by those established in that space-your challenge is breaking into market and making a reputation for yourself. Marketing 101 lesson over.