[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by nukezero

Could someone check my timings for me? I am running Stage 1 Sport Stock Throttle v401 45 degrees F outside. This is 6MT 2009 335i , all bone stock. Running California Shell 91 Octane which I assume is ACN91 ?
Plugs were changed 8K miles ago but coils and injectors were not, car has 56k miles.

The runs are 1st gear, 2nd gear, and then 3rd gear. You see a dip in the boost for 1st gear because traction control kicked in and I lost power momentarily.

But could someone tell me if this looks good or bad?

Also, no issues with the car. But I do feel that like at 5800rpm or so, there is this "KICK" that occurs and it pulls to redline much better than stock. It looks like cylinder 4 had a -7.5 degree timing pull, the worst. Cylinder 1 had -3.5 degrees pulled twice. Cylinder 6 had -4 degrees pulled once. Cylinder 5 pulled around -3.5 degrees.

This log is pretty busy for me, read this thread and then post some csv logs in 3rd gear WOT. Be safe,

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696472

ACN 91 is 91 octane, Arizona California Nevada standards. Running sport is probably ok with these cold temps, but once warmer conditions come back the IATs will be high and begin to pull timing. Log to be sure, us Cali folks can't run aggressive tunes because of our access to fuel. But there are ways around that with pro tuning or adding higher octane such as purchasing 93, 100 or even adding 3 gallons of E85 to 13 gallons of 91 roughly 20% E85 pump.

A rule of thumb for timing corrections is 3.38 across 3 or less cyl is usually ok. But log to be sure and post.

[nukezero]

Originally Posted by VNeBLOB42

This log is pretty busy for me, read this thread and then post some csv logs in 3rd gear WOT. Be safe,

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=696472

ACN 91 is 91 octane, Arizona California Nevada standards. Running sport is probably ok with these cold temps, but once warmer conditions come back the IATs will be high and begin to pull timing. Log to be sure, us Cali folks can't run aggressive tunes because of our access to fuel. But there are ways around that with pro tuning or adding higher octane such as purchasing 93, 100 or even adding 3 gallons of E85 to 13 gallons of 91 roughly 20% E85 pump.

A rule of thumb for timing corrections is 3.38 across 3 or less cyl is usually ok. But log to be sure and post.

Here you go, I cleaned it up. Only showing timing corrections on all six cylinders with RPM only. The RPM is on the second axis.

I did not do a 2000-7000RPM run on 3rd gear, instead, 3rd gear started at 4000rpm. is this necessary? Because, lets say I do a 2k rpm to 7k rpm pull at 3rd gear, would I not see timing pulled like this??

thanks

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by nukezero

Here you go, I cleaned it up. Only showing timing corrections on all six cylinders with RPM only. The RPM is on the second axis.

I did not do a 2000-7000RPM run on 3rd gear, instead, 3rd gear started at 4000rpm. is this necessary? Because, lets say I do a 2k rpm to 7k rpm pull at 3rd gear, would I not see timing pulled like this??

thanks

Honestly I am no expert, but I was trained to read logs in 3rd gear, from 2400 to 6400 or redline. It's best to see how the car reacts when WOT and not just timing, at least the default log list. Boost, timing cor., throttle, etc. to better help you attach a WOT log in 3rd gear so we can see it all. It's necessary. You'll reach close to 100 mph ( if you go through 4th a bit <100), so be safe find a long flat stretch of road and dtc and dsc completely off.

[nukezero]

Originally Posted by VNeBLOB42

Honestly I am no expert, but I was trained to read logs in 3rd gear, from 2400 to 6400 or redline. It's best to see how the car reacts when WOT and not just timing, at least the default log list. Boost, timing cor., throttle, etc. to better help you attach a WOT log in 3rd gear so we can see it all. It's necessary. You'll reach close to 100 mph ( if you go through 4th a bit <100), so be safe find a long flat stretch of road and dtc and dsc completely off.

Okay buddy, I made your life easier. Here is a complete 3rd gear pull from 2800 RPM to 7000 RPM. I think it looks good, compared to the Stage 1 Sport run previously. This is running Stage 1 - ST - Drive map on v401.

There was no timing corrections except Cylinder 5 and that occurred only way beginning in the RPM climb. Every cylinder's timing was spot on overlapped of each other. A/F ratio looks to be dropping to 12.5 steady and boost seems steady with a nice fall off.

The pull was very clean, consistent, and nice. In fact, it felt better than last night's sport pull, there was a slight hesitation at the top end and I suspect that's where the timing corrections occurred for 4 of my cylinders.

let me know what you think. First picture is timing corrections, second picture is regular timings. The Y-axis on the right is engine RPM, the Y-axis on the right applies to everything else.

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by nukezero

Okay buddy, I made your life easier. Here is a complete 3rd gear pull from 2800 RPM to 7000 RPM. I think it looks good, compared to the Stage 1 Sport run previously. This is running Stage 1 - ST - Drive map on v401.

There was no timing corrections except Cylinder 5 and that occurred only way beginning in the RPM climb. Every cylinder's timing was spot on overlapped of each other. A/F ratio looks to be dropping to 12.5 steady and boost seems steady with a nice fall off.

The pull was very clean, consistent, and nice. In fact, it felt better than last night's sport pull, there was a slight hesitation at the top end and I suspect that's where the timing corrections occurred for 4 of my cylinders.

let me know what you think. First picture is timing corrections, second picture is regular timings. The Y-axis on the right is engine RPM, the Y-axis on the right applies to everything else.

Doesn't look bad, do you have the csv file? Attach that also. I personally like that better. I would try a 3rd gear pull in Sport and let's see that again. In a csv file if you can.

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by nukezero

Okay buddy, I made your life easier. Here is a complete 3rd gear pull from 2800 RPM to 7000 RPM. I think it looks good, compared to the Stage 1 Sport run previously. This is running Stage 1 - ST - Drive map on v401.

There was no timing corrections except Cylinder 5 and that occurred only way beginning in the RPM climb. Every cylinder's timing was spot on overlapped of each other. A/F ratio looks to be dropping to 12.5 steady and boost seems steady with a nice fall off.

The pull was very clean, consistent, and nice. In fact, it felt better than last night's sport pull, there was a slight hesitation at the top end and I suspect that's where the timing corrections occurred for 4 of my cylinders.

let me know what you think. First picture is timing corrections, second picture is regular timings. The Y-axis on the right is engine RPM, the Y-axis on the right applies to everything else.

That log looks good. Really good.

[racerg35335]

So I am waiting for the vrsf 5in IC at the end of the month then will probably pull the trigger on a 30-50% e85 etune from HPF. Vneblob42, maybe you can help me out here considering it will be a stage 1+ fmic tune. My concern is in the difference ethanol content in e85. I know it can be as low as e70 and do not want to test the fuel on every fill up. If the car is tuned on e85 but my next fill up has a lower ethanol content (due to e85 variations) can this cause damage or will the dme make appropriate corrections without damage. Obviously, I don't want significant timing corrections. I have considered swithing to the jb4 for this reason (autotuning) but would really like to stay with my Cobb. I'm hoping the tune will be mild enough to account for variations. Does anyone have experience with this? Thanks in advance.

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by racerg35335

So I am waiting for the vrsf 5in IC at the end of the month then will probably pull the trigger on a 30-50% e85 etune from HPF. Vneblob42, maybe you can help me out here considering it will be a stage 1+ fmic tune. My concern is in the difference ethanol content in e85. I know it can be as low as e70 and do not want to test the fuel on every fill up. If the car is tuned on e85 but my next fill up has a lower ethanol content (due to e85 variations) can this cause damage or will the dme make appropriate corrections without damage. Obviously, I don't want significant timing corrections. I have considered swithing to the jb4 for this reason (autotuning) but would really like to stay with my Cobb. I'm hoping the tune will be mild enough to account for variations. Does anyone have experience with this? Thanks in advance.

It's tough to really say. It's best to stick with the same pump station to help chances of consistency. Try to use a good quality, like propel fuels, which I think is only located here in the west coast.

I was pro e tuning for over a month with several fill ups and the logs were never drastically different. It's just best to log here and there, may not be necessary at every fill up, but maybe if you go to a different station.

Also, the winter blends could be different then summer, I would consider to have your tuner to review logs again in the summer time.

In the end my car did fine with many fill ups, just be consistent with your blends and you'll be fine.

You should expect to see numbers like this with E50

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=746740

[racerg35335]

[QUOTE=VNeBLOB42;13229105]It's tough to really say. It's best to stick with the same pump station to help chances of consistency. Try to use a good quality, like propel fuels, which I think is only located here in the west coast.

I was pro e tuning for over a month with several fill ups and the logs were never drastically different. It's just best to log here and there, may not be necessary at every fill up, but maybe if you go to a different station.

Also, the winter blends could be different then summer, I would consider to have your tuner to review logs again in the summer time.

In the end my car did fine with many fill ups, just be consistent with your blends and you'll be fine.

You should expect to see numbers like this with E50

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have seen your thread in the past. They are awesome numbers!!! I only have 1 station with e85 near me so I will always fill up at that location. I was hoping that with the tune being done in the winter I should be safe in the summer due to higher ethanol content (that is if there is any difference), but that is just speculation. I have no problem keeping an eye on logs, just don't want to test fuel before I fill up. I didn't want to have to worry about doing a pull and having my car go boom right after a fill up. Lol. You say you were etuned for over a month. What are you running now? Were there any drawbacks to the tune other than gas mileage. Again, I appreciate your advice.

[

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by racerg35335

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have seen your thread in the past. They are awesome numbers!!! I only have 1 station with e85 near me so I will always fill up at that location. I was hoping that with the tune being done in the winter I should be safe in the summer due to higher ethanol content (that is if there is any difference), but that is just speculation. I have no problem keeping an eye on logs, just don't want to test fuel before I fill up. I didn't want to have to worry about doing a pull and having my car go boom right after a fill up. Lol. You say you were etuned for over a month. What are you running now? Were there any drawbacks to the tune other than gas mileage. Again, I appreciate your advice.

You're right with your line of thinking. Getting tuned for a slightly lower ethanol content than normal is the easiest way to ensure consistancy and safety.

It's always best to ensure timing corrections are MINOR(or nonexistent) but worse case scenerio the DME has the ability to pull as much timing out as required(i'm not suggesting it's a 100% guaranteed failsafe but the fact engines weren't grenading daily with the way the piggys used to ride the knock sensor proves it's damn good at it.)

[racerg35335]

Originally Posted by Ænema

You're right with your line of thinking. Getting tuned for a slightly lower ethanol content than normal is the easiest way to ensure consistancy and safety.

It's always best to ensure timing corrections are MINOR(or nonexistent) but worse case scenerio the DME has the ability to pull as much timing out as required(i'm not suggesting it's a 100% guaranteed failsafe but the fact engines weren't grenading daily with the way the piggys used to ride the knock sensor proves it's damn good at it.)

Well that is good to know. I was planning on getting it done in the winter mainly for that reason. I was thinking it should be a safe year round tune if done when ethanol content would be at it's lowest.

[xzibit a]

Ive read through a bunch of info on here but the one thing i cant find is this.

What are the boost levels for Stg 1 S,D and A
and the same with STG1+ for each.

reason being is that according to my AP im pulling 14lbs on stg1 Agr. and 14 on stg 1+ sport. the stg1+ map is MUCH smoother though,

Current mods are a DCI and muffler delete. Temps are in the 30s-40s here right now. Never had any timing corrections or issues on my logs with either map. I assumed the stg1+ would run more boost.

I plan on flashing the stg1+ agr and logging it to see how it reacts and then add some e85 if i have to.

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by xzibit a

Ive read through a bunch of info on here but the one thing i cant find is this.

What are the boost levels for Stg 1 S,D and A
and the same with STG1+ for each.

reason being is that according to my AP im pulling 14lbs on stg1 Agr. and 14 on stg 1+ sport. the stg1+ map is MUCH smoother though,

Current mods are a DCI and muffler delete. Temps are in the 30s-40s here right now. Never had any timing corrections or issues on my logs with either map. I assumed the stg1+ would run more boost.

I plan on flashing the stg1+ agr and logging it to see how it reacts and then add some e85 if i have to.

The DME is load targeting not boost targeting, so it doesn't always request/target the same boost for each map. Temperature, humidity and altitude all play into load targets. As long as Boost mean abs is hitting requested boost then you are fine. Just as a rule of thumb Drive should be around 14psi, sport 16 psi and agg 17psi.

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by racerg35335

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have seen your thread in the past. They are awesome numbers!!! I only have 1 station with e85 near me so I will always fill up at that location. I was hoping that with the tune being done in the winter I should be safe in the summer due to higher ethanol content (that is if there is any difference), but that is just speculation. I have no problem keeping an eye on logs, just don't want to test fuel before I fill up. I didn't want to have to worry about doing a pull and having my car go boom right after a fill up. Lol. You say you were etuned for over a month. What are you running now? Were there any drawbacks to the tune other than gas mileage. Again, I appreciate your advice.

[

To be honest, after my tuning was complete i think i did 2 logs in the 2 months i had the tune installed.

i would say in the colder parts of the US, the Ethanol is reduced to E70 averages. I called Propel Fuels, and they said they keep a constant blend and not reduce the ethanol content on the west coast. but once again i spoke to a phone rep and they may not fully understood what I was getting at. as you said, speculation.

I was tuning for over a month, Dzenno @ PTF and I were doing a lot of testing for different strategies, thus took longer. but once i was dialed in i ran the E50 MAP till end of November. I wanted to just run 91 Octane during winter. Can't really enjoy a 400 whp car in the rain. i am currently on S1+ Drive. May go to S1+ Sport if 91 can handle it.

Ponies go up and MPGs go down. I think I was averaging about 15-16 mpgs city. and not much more on freeway with the E50 MAP. Ethanol is less dense thus, as you may know, use more fuel. but the cost is lower, but i still felt in the long run, i was spending more $$.

if your tuner does not max out the Ethanol MAP they make then a little fluctuation in the blends should be ok. for instance, if they max out timing for E40, and then a new fuel blend you was ~E35 you may experience some timing pulls because it was maxed out for E40. My E50 MAP wasn't maxed out thus a little fluctuation in blends was OK.

i would recommend getting a Pro Tune for just standard pump gas, that way if you don't have E85 pump available, you can still get maximum power from standard pump gas. something i didn't do and would be nice on dry cold days without having to blend in higher ethanol gas.

[DallasBoosted]

If I run the car down to fumes, and then fill up with 5 gals of E85 and the rest 93, how long should I wait to flash the E30 map? Is there some time required for the fuel to mix/even out?

Secondly, assuming I don't run the car down to totally empty every time, and I have to mix my E85 in based on how much 93 I put in, I'm assuming it should be 1 gal E85 to 2 gals 93 octane, right? This will give me E35, but on the plus side its easy to mix because 1 for 2 is easy. Even I can't screw that up.

The question is, will this slight variation from E30 cause any trouble? I'd think depending on how exact I am about mixing my mixture would vary from E30-E40 or so. The tuning compensates for these slight variations with the fuel trims, correct? How much wiggle room do you have in there?

Thank you

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by DallasBoosted

If I run the car down to fumes, and then fill up with 5 gals of E85 and the rest 93, how long should I wait to flash the E30 map? Is there some time required for the fuel to mix/even out?

Secondly, assuming I don't run the car down to totally empty every time, and I have to mix my E85 in based on how much 93 I put in, I'm assuming it should be 1 gal E85 to 2 gals 93 octane, right? This will give me E35, but on the plus side its easy to mix because 1 for 2 is easy. Even I can't screw that up.

The question is, will this slight variation from E30 cause any trouble? I'd think depending on how exact I am about mixing my mixture would vary from E30-E40 or so. The tuning compensates for these slight variations with the fuel trims, correct? How much wiggle room do you have in there?

Thank you

1:Just give it ~5-10 miuntes of of driving around after adding the e85. That should be plenty.
2:That should put you close
3:Based on what i've seen the DME can easily compensate for +-15%. It's better to have a little more ethanol than recommended for e30 anyway,

[VNeBLOB42]

Originally Posted by DallasBoosted

If I run the car down to fumes, and then fill up with 5 gals of E85 and the rest 93, how long should I wait to flash the E30 map? Is there some time required for the fuel to mix/even out?

Secondly, assuming I don't run the car down to totally empty every time, and I have to mix my E85 in based on how much 93 I put in, I'm assuming it should be 1 gal E85 to 2 gals 93 octane, right? This will give me E35, but on the plus side its easy to mix because 1 for 2 is easy. Even I can't screw that up.

The question is, will this slight variation from E30 cause any trouble? I'd think depending on how exact I am about mixing my mixture would vary from E30-E40 or so. The tuning compensates for these slight variations with the fuel trims, correct? How much wiggle room do you have in there?

Thank you

if you have a smart phone I recommend putting this web address as a bookmark.

http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html


As AEnema said, its better to be heavy on the E85 pump. for better blends refuel at 1/4 tank that way you know what you have in there and not have to do the math every time. (you don't have to run it to fumes if you are doing blends with regular pump gas anyway) Just run it down to 1/4 tank and blend in....

just use the calculator and do guess and check to get your E35 percentages. Just gauge on how many gallons you need to fill, if your last fill was accurate (the first fill up is the easiest), then its just a matter of putting back in 35% ethanol, E35. this is all speculation, pump gas being E10 and E85 being 85% ethanol.

[DallasBoosted]

Okay. Going to give my first tankful of E35 a try this week then. Thanks guys.

[E92mech]

I have a few minor issues that I see on my data log. Would appreciate input.

2010 E92 stock N54 engine and exhaust, Cobb AP Stage 1 Aggressive.
Shell 93 octane. Brand new spark plugs and engine air filter ~100 mi ago. Original coils.

This is a pull 2nd-3rd, WOT, DSC/DTC disengaged, ambient temp=40F.

Graphs in order of upload:

1) Lambda/AFR. Looks good.

2) Req vs. actual boost. Actual boost running a little high. No leak.

3) Cyl 4 timing. Cyl 4 has the only correction, which is maximum -4 (absolute value not shown on graph.) Timing curve I think looks good.

4) Cyl 1-6 timing corrections. Pretty smooth, Cyl 1 timing looks good, I think my map is appropriate to octane.

5) Req load vs. actual load. Although actual load mirrors boost, my actual load is tremendously higher than requested for much of the pull. Is this an artifact of scaling, or is this a concern?

6) TPS request. There is a dramatic throttle closure to 40% TPS early in the pull that corresponds with an overboost. (N.B. DTC was deactivated.)

My overall impression is that I had one Cyl 4 timing correction of -4 that I'm not too concerned about. Overall timing looks good and map is appropriate. With regard to Cyl4, I think I just need to log again and see if the correction on this cylinder is consistent. Agree?

Second, I'm concerned about my actual load exceeding the requested load, and the fact that I had what I think is an overboost/TPS closure. I don't know if the actual load vs. requested load is just a scaling issue--it doesn't appear to be. The overboost seems real and caused a TPS closure. Do I need to fix anything.

Input much appreciated.

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by E92mech

I have a few minor issues that I see on my data log. Would appreciate input.

2010 E92 stock N54 engine and exhaust, Cobb AP Stage 1 Aggressive.
Shell 93 octane. Brand new spark plugs and engine air filter ~100 mi ago. Original coils.

This is a pull 2nd-3rd, WOT, DSC/DTC disengaged, ambient temp=40F.

Graphs in order of upload:

1) Lambda/AFR. Looks good.

2) Req vs. actual boost. Actual boost running a little high. No leak.

3) Cyl 4 timing. Cyl 4 has the only correction, which is maximum -4 (absolute value not shown on graph.) Timing curve I think looks good.

4) Cyl 1-6 timing corrections. Pretty smooth, Cyl 1 timing looks good, I think my map is appropriate to octane.

5) Req load vs. actual load. Although actual load mirrors boost, my actual load is tremendously higher than requested for much of the pull. Is this an artifact of scaling, or is this a concern?

6) TPS request. There is a dramatic throttle closure to 40% TPS early in the pull that corresponds with an overboost. (N.B. DTC was deactivated.)

My overall impression is that I had one Cyl 4 timing correction of -4 that I'm not too concerned about. Overall timing looks good and map is appropriate. With regard to Cyl4, I think I just need to log again and see if the correction on this cylinder is consistent. Agree?

Second, I'm concerned about my actual load exceeding the requested load, and the fact that I had what I think is an overboost/TPS closure. I don't know if the actual load vs. requested load is just a scaling issue--it doesn't appear to be. The overboost seems real and caused a TPS closure. Do I need to fix anything.

Input much appreciated.

For the most part your analysis looks spot on
Without seeing actual values I'm going to say that most of the actual/req load overshoot is VD auto scaling(with the obvious exception of the overboost low in the RPMs.) Just use your mouse and follow the lines out and look at the number values to confirm.

overboost induced throttle closure is fairly common and no big deal to fix using ATR.

[E92mech]

Thanks-

You are correct--the requested and actual load are both around the low 160's, and across the entire pull are usually within one unit of each other. So it was a scaling issue in VD. However, the load is reported in dimensionless units--what are the units for load, and how much of a discrepancy between requested load and actual load is allowable?

[Ænema]

Originally Posted by E92mech

Thanks-

You are correct--the requested and actual load are both around the low 160's, and across the entire pull are usually within one unit of each other. So it was a scaling issue in VD. However, the load is reported in dimensionless units--what are the units for load, and how much of a discrepancy between requested load and actual load is allowable?

Load is a calculation based on boost(calculated MAF), engine speed and TPS. As far as what the actual load units are i'm not sure(i think it's just an arbritrary unit and how the calculations are made i don't know.)

The thing to keep in mind about load is that it is based on boost(the Boost mean abs and Load act lines will mirror each other when graphed) so as long as you're within ~1.5psi or so you're ok(you'll probably be closer than that with the OTS maps. When using ATR and upping the boost in the higher RPMs it can become necessary to adjust the wastegate tables a little to meet requested boost, but that's another conversation)

Also, it's normal for actual load to be further off from requested the higher you go in the RPMs.