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      11-11-2013, 07:51 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyrap View Post
I think that as you say, front PDC will be amplified but the rear won't. How much of an issue that might be for you I'm not sure.

Hifi coding is more of a problem potentially if you are still running the rears off the head unit (eg, install the 4-ch gladen to drive the front speakers and underfloor subs as most people do). The problem is that the rear speakers would then be driven at line level (unamplified) so the rear PDC will be a lot quieter. One reason I'm not coding mine.
That would annoy me I think. In the process of thinking of getting this amp/speaker combo.

Are you running yours with standard idrive signal with no hifi coding?
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      11-11-2013, 10:01 AM   #112
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After giving this a lot of though, I can see a few options:

1) Do not code to Hi-Fi, keep normal PDC sounds to rear and louder PDC/bongs to front plus ignore the EQ imposed by the head unit.
2) As 1 but remove EQ with CleanSweep
3) Code to Hi-Fi and use a 6-channel amp, amping and upgrading the rears (with HPF) to fix rear PDC issue. Side affect= rearward move for the sound stage.
4) Code to Hi-Fi and ignore lack of rear PDC as you can see it on the iDrive display anyway.
5) Stick with the stock stereo as they haven't made any decent music for years anyway. <insert old man smiley>

Does anyone know if you get louder bongs and front-PDC with the Hi-Fi coding or without?
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      11-11-2013, 01:28 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyrap View Post
I think that as you say, front PDC will be amplified but the rear won't. How much of an issue that might be for you I'm not sure.

Hifi coding is more of a problem potentially if you are still running the rears off the head unit (eg, install the 4-ch gladen to drive the front speakers and underfloor subs as most people do). The problem is that the rear speakers would then be driven at line level (unamplified) so the rear PDC will be a lot quieter. One reason I'm not coding mine.
Although its is your thread but I though to add few things to what you have mentioned.
1- Having loud bongs (such as low fuel) is more irritating than less audible rear pdc gongs.
2- Your rear channels are not doing much at the moment as without hi-fi coding they are hi-passed. With hi-fi coding, they have better audible spectrum, but then they are low level.
3- PDC volume can be adjusted with customized coding. Not the best solution but way better than what you get by default after adding the amp.
4- Lastly, if you have HU, some of them can be coded to decrease the volume when you engage into reverse.
5- And bongs can be coded to come through odometer so they dont go through the front speakers.

I have done it for Blondfella and you can ask him opinion.
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      11-11-2013, 01:32 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sylonien View Post
That would annoy me I think. In the process of thinking of getting this amp/speaker combo.

Are you running yours with standard idrive signal with no hifi coding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs0set View Post
After giving this a lot of though, I can see a few options:

1) Do not code to Hi-Fi, keep normal PDC sounds to rear and louder PDC/bongs to front plus ignore the EQ imposed by the head unit.
2) As 1 but remove EQ with CleanSweep
3) Code to Hi-Fi and use a 6-channel amp, amping and upgrading the rears (with HPF) to fix rear PDC issue. Side affect= rearward move for the sound stage.
4) Code to Hi-Fi and ignore lack of rear PDC as you can see it on the iDrive display anyway.
5) Stick with the stock stereo as they haven't made any decent music for years anyway. <insert old man smiley>

Does anyone know if you get louder bongs and front-PDC with the Hi-Fi coding or without?
Read my earlier comment.

Option 5 is the best guys.
If somebody has iDrive than option 4 works.


Also worth of mentioning that there are few who love their sound with equalized spectrum, so normal HU + amp => boomy sound.

In my 18 months of coding career, there are only two persons who requested to code the HU back to normal settings. (no hi-fi).
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      11-12-2013, 02:30 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
Read my earlier comment.

Option 5 is the best guys.
If somebody has iDrive than option 4 works.
Just to clarify, you're suggesting that the best solution is not to upgrade the audio at all?

Can anyone suggest whether amping the rear speakers + hi-fi coding will resolve all the issues (specifically rear PDC)? If so, it should be fairly simple to get a cheap two-channel amp from ebay and power up the rears. I'd guess that if you set the HU fader all the way to the front, the PDC will overrule that and come out of the back anyway. Thus audio = front only, Marconi amp + Gladen speakers, PDC = lightly amped rears.

I realise this may sound a little overkill to some just to fix the rear PDC but to others including myself, it would be a constant source of irritation that the PDC doesn't work as designed.

Thanks,

Ian.

PS. Sorry for the partial thread hi-jack. I realise that this is not a Gladen specific issue but as the Gladen solution involves a four-channel amp for the front speakers only, this issue is relevant.
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      11-12-2013, 02:53 AM   #116
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Ahh so many combinations.

a) Would adding a cleansweep solve the whole PDC/bong front & rear problem?
b) would amplifying all 6 channels with a technic harness without hifi coding solve this issue or would we run into the same issue of not having full range at the rear speakers.

c) use front stereo signal to amplify/supply rear - but then that would probably mess with PDC rear sounds right?

Personally I'm torn between:

1) Gladen 3 way front + Mosconi with/out Hifi coding
2) technic harness 6 way amping with/out hifi coding
3) clean sweep the whole thing without hifi coding

Also this whole PDC/Bong volume thing. Can this be adjusted in the iDrive CIC?
Can we not turn the BONG level all the down, will that cure the loud volume issue?

I guess there is always the unbalanced volume difference between the front and rear hence I'm more tempted with option 2 and 3 (above). Maybe that will solve it?
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      11-12-2013, 04:48 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs0set View Post
After giving this a lot of though, I can see a few options:

1) Do not code to Hi-Fi, keep normal PDC sounds to rear and louder PDC/bongs to front plus ignore the EQ imposed by the head unit.
2) As 1 but remove EQ with CleanSweep
3) Code to Hi-Fi and use a 6-channel amp, amping and upgrading the rears (with HPF) to fix rear PDC issue. Side affect= rearward move for the sound stage.
4) Code to Hi-Fi and ignore lack of rear PDC as you can see it on the iDrive display anyway.
5) Stick with the stock stereo as they haven't made any decent music for years anyway. <insert old man smiley>

Does anyone know if you get louder bongs and front-PDC with the Hi-Fi coding or without?
This is what I have done. And handful of customers have done the same. In 14 months I can't say its bothered me once. I can quite easily hear the PDC even with volume up half way.

Just the Gladen/Mosconi package installed with no coding is a huge upgrade in performance, coding to HiFi reducing the boosted EQ curve and taming the output signal voltage.

I have done it all in stages, but no bigger performance gain as had than just the Gladen/Mosconi package, the HiFi coding just tamed things (signal and stock EQ curve), even still with the DSP optimised file tonality is exceptionally good.
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      11-12-2013, 01:36 PM   #118
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Just wanted to add some thanks to this thread..

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread, a great deal of info and tips. I have just upgraded from a Base / Prof HU and added the Gladen 120 /Mosconi 120.4 DSP to my 2011 E90. And like the E91 installs further back in this thread I installed it left side of the boot.

With Edds help from MonsterAudioDesign _ I now have a car that sounds lovely... I will when I get time to post up an thread of my own as there are lots of things I have learned during the past few days.

But what I would say is this - rip it out and install this setup.. Its spot on !

Thanks to all who have contributed

toesy

BTW vvvvvvv that's not my car now LOL, ill have to edit me sig... :-)
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      11-12-2013, 02:48 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs0set View Post
Just to clarify, you're suggesting that the best solution is not to upgrade the audio at all?

Can anyone suggest whether amping the rear speakers + hi-fi coding will resolve all the issues (specifically rear PDC)? If so, it should be fairly simple to get a cheap two-channel amp from ebay and power up the rears. I'd guess that if you set the HU fader all the way to the front, the PDC will overrule that and come out of the back anyway. Thus audio = front only, Marconi amp + Gladen speakers, PDC = lightly amped rears.

I realise this may sound a little overkill to some just to fix the rear PDC but to others including myself, it would be a constant source of irritation that the PDC doesn't work as designed.

Thanks,

Ian.

PS. Sorry for the partial thread hi-jack. I realise that this is not a Gladen specific issue but as the Gladen solution involves a four-channel amp for the front speakers only, this issue is relevant.

You are being extra cautious. Shoot a pm to Blond Fella and ask his opinion.

Its nothing to do with any setup but its to do with BMW which makes things difficult and modifying it is not as easy as some other car.

As you have already suggest, 6 channel amplifier is the way to go if you want to be perfectionist. There is no cheap amplifier which can power the rears as bmw works on differential balanced input.

The other method is 4 channels with / without coding.
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      11-12-2013, 04:05 PM   #120
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I'm going to be doing a simple 6-channel build in my 2007 E90 in the next few months using the Mobridge MOST (DA2) interface, been doing some investigating and it looks like they have worked around the rear PDC and bongs issue by flipping all noises to the front channels in the processing of the Mobridge device and controlling the volume levels vs "music" separately.

This unit "overlays" the PDC signal onto the music output so it will be interesting to see whether they've got it right and kept it as close to OEM-like as possible.

I'll update more once I've got the device installed and coded to the car. Eventually this will be full optical/digital signal path for sound source and amplification once the new range of Toslink-input amps comes out (Mobridge, Audison Prima etc). But the first attempt will be using a JL Audio XD 600/6 to power the whole system and all speakers looking factory within the cabin (but with some trickery behind the stock grilles).

Speakers will most likely be the Gladen under-seat 8", Hybrid Audio L4SE mids in the doors and Alpine SPX (Scanspeak) ring radiator tweeters behind the OEM mirror sail grilles. It won't be tuned correctly until I get time alignment in there (needs the optical-in amp for that) but the first stage is to assess what is possible with a really simple setup. Having been there many times before I want to get the OEM build correct first before going mental on extra processing kit.
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      11-13-2013, 06:44 AM   #121
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Oh, sod it. Just ordered the kit with the DSP amp. Listened to the stock system on the way home last night and it is truly shite.

Thanks for all help, especially from Mr.Singh, makkann00, andyrap and of course Ed from Monster Audio Design.

I've got a whole load more questions such as:
  • Which location to mount the amp in an E93
  • How to remove the head unit
  • Where to apply sound deadening and how much to use
... but I'll resort to search or start a new thread.

Thanks again!
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      11-13-2013, 06:47 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs0set
Oh, sod it. Just ordered the kit with the DSP amp. Listened to the stock system on the way home last night and it is truly shite.

Thanks for all help, especially from Mr.Singh, makkann00, andyrap and of course Ed from Monster Audio Design.

I've got a whole load more questions such as:
  • Which location to mount the amp in an E93
  • How to remove the head unit
  • Where to apply sound deadening and how much to use
... but I'll resort to search or start a new thread.

Thanks again!
Nice choice.

I was recently in a 2013 E90, and the base system is shockingly bad compared to this. Awful!
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      11-13-2013, 04:26 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs0set View Post
Oh, sod it. Just ordered the kit with the DSP amp. Listened to the stock system on the way home last night and it is truly shite.

Thanks for all help, especially from Mr.Singh, makkann00, andyrap and of course Ed from Monster Audio Design.

I've got a whole load more questions such as:
  • Which location to mount the amp in an E93
  • How to remove the head unit
  • Where to apply sound deadening and how much to use
... but I'll resort to search or start a new thread.

Thanks again!
Mount the amp in the same spot as the OP did I.e. under the rear left storage bin, then just buy the shallower bin as is used for oem amp installs.
Best of luck removing all the boot trims though lol
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      11-15-2013, 06:26 AM   #124
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Some notes from installation of the door speakers from my 2007 E93 ('vert) pre-LCI. These may be useful to anyone else fitting this kit:
  1. I attempted to remove the door card without disconnecting the battery. However I found a module / air bag in the door which was not listed on other posts. I therefore disconnected the battery (more difficult than expected in an E93!)
  2. On disconnecting the battery, I could not fully close the boot.
  3. On disconnecting the battery, the doors don't close easily as the window does not automatically drop. You have to push the window ahead of the door in order to tuck it under the surround.
  4. The door card appears to have some sharp edges. On a related note, blood does not mix well with a cream interior.
  5. Pelican Parts reports 3 torx screws on the driver's door card. Mine had 4. The door card is quite insistant about the need to remove the last one!
  6. I mounted the crossover to the door card. This requires a non-permanent connection to the OEM loom. Alternatively you could mount the crossover on the door itself.
  7. The cable from crossover to tweeter is very long! You may wish to re-terminate it.
  8. The crossover is NOT plug and play with the OEM loom. Crimp-style connectors are provided but I will be soldering on bullet connectors.
  9. I did not have bullet connectors in the house so I can't refit the door cards so I can't reconnect the airbag modules so I can't reconnect the battery so I can't drive the car to work so I stole the wife's car so she had to walk so I'm unlikely to get any this evening. Be advised and buy 50p worth of bullet connectors before you start!
  10. The pre-LCI E93 does not have space in the foam for the tweeters. It is a solid triangular block. Manual alteration or replacement parts 51337119173 & 51337119173 are required.
  11. I also had a crossthreaded screw on one of the midrange speakers. It must be a feature!
  12. The woofers come with a grill. The instructions advise mounting this underneath the OEM grill (plus cutting the carpet) and supply a foam spacing pad. I didn't see anyone else doing this?
  13. It's fecking cold outside. I wish I had a double garage!

Will add more tips when I fit the quadlock and amp.

HTH, Ian.
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      11-15-2013, 07:04 AM   #125
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Thanks for sharing Ian.

Once yours is fully fitted and all the problems solved.
Can you help and fit mine please?
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      11-15-2013, 04:45 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs0set View Post
Some notes from installation of the door speakers from my 2007 E93 ('vert) pre-LCI. These may be useful to anyone else fitting this kit:
  1. I attempted to remove the door card without disconnecting the battery. However I found a module / air bag in the door which was not listed on other posts. I therefore disconnected the battery (more difficult than expected in an E93!)
  2. On disconnecting the battery, I could not fully close the boot.
  3. On disconnecting the battery, the doors don't close easily as the window does not automatically drop. You have to push the window ahead of the door in order to tuck it under the surround.
  4. The door card appears to have some sharp edges. On a related note, blood does not mix well with a cream interior.
  5. Pelican Parts reports 3 torx screws on the driver's door card. Mine had 4. The door card is quite insistant about the need to remove the last one!
  6. I mounted the crossover to the door card. This requires a non-permanent connection to the OEM loom. Alternatively you could mount the crossover on the door itself.
  7. The cable from crossover to tweeter is very long! You may wish to re-terminate it.
  8. The crossover is NOT plug and play with the OEM loom. Crimp-style connectors are provided but I will be soldering on bullet connectors.
  9. I did not have bullet connectors in the house so I can't refit the door cards so I can't reconnect the airbag modules so I can't reconnect the battery so I can't drive the car to work so I stole the wife's car so she had to walk so I'm unlikely to get any this evening. Be advised and buy 50p worth of bullet connectors before you start!
  10. The pre-LCI E93 does not have space in the foam for the tweeters. It is a solid triangular block. Manual alteration or replacement parts 51337119173 & 51337119173 are required.
  11. I also had a crossthreaded screw on one of the midrange speakers. It must be a feature!
  12. The woofers come with a grill. The instructions advise mounting this underneath the OEM grill (plus cutting the carpet) and supply a foam spacing pad. I didn't see anyone else doing this?
  13. It's fecking cold outside. I wish I had a double garage!

Will add more tips when I fit the quadlock and amp.

HTH, Ian.
No airbag in my E93 doors, although there were a few connections to undo but all was managed without the need to disconnect the battery.
Quadlock was stuffed into the side of the centre console behind the radio, tight but not as hard as expected tbh.
I found there was not enough speaker wire supplied for the subwoofers so I had to purchased some more.
I didn't cut the carpet but I did put the foam pad onto the woofer grill between the oem cover and the woofer.
Stripping the trims out of the boot was a mare!

If you haven't ordered the bluetooth adapter then I consider it essential for setting up, especially if going for an oem type installation.

Could also do with some more info/help on equaliser settings as although it's a big improvement over stock, I think I could still improve the set up quite a bit
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      11-16-2013, 04:10 AM   #127
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I managed to get the door cards back on, although I may need to partially remove them again after sorting out the foam for the tweeters.

I've stripped both sides of the boot and the amp tray is big enough even on the E93.

Where on the battery do you connect the positive feed? I've seen suggestion of buying an OEM connector to connect to the power distribution block and also people using the bolt which connects the fat cable on the far left of the block. Is it too much to ask for a simple positive bolt these days? Is there something usable nearer to the actual battery terminal?

Also for the ground point, this appears to be hidden under some of the roof parts on the E93. I can't see that removing the bit of carpet on the left rear wheel arch is going to be easy without affecting the adjustment of the roof. Any suggestions?

I'm off to buy some MDF as suggested by the OP.

Edited to add, does anyone know if there is a shallower tray for the E93 to go over the amp?
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      11-16-2013, 07:24 AM   #128
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Makkan00 coded my car to solve the bong and PDC issues as described earlier. I had an added problem as I have both font and rear PDC. If you are only amping the front speakers this set up is the best option by far. I do have to turn the volume down to a reasonable level to hear the PDC bongs but that is not too much of a problem as I would normally do that anyway.

The best option, and the one I would loved to have done if I had the money would be to by a 6 channel amp and the corresponding harness. That way you would get the extra volume to the rear (which I really miss especially at normal volumes) and correct PDC volume too. I think the Gladen / Mosconi amp option was another £200 though and I was already at my limit with what I'd spent. If you've the extra cash I would definitely go for it!

I didn't by the same 4 channel amp either, i bought the cheaper one. (RS 100c4). It's a bit bigger than yours but it has cooling fans which I thought would be better. I mounted it on the back panel in the boot too as I couldn't figure out where everyone else was hiding it.

Last edited by TheBlondeFella; 11-17-2013 at 08:14 AM..
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      11-17-2013, 01:27 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs0set View Post
I managed to get the door cards back on, although I may need to partially remove them again after sorting out the foam for the tweeters.

I've stripped both sides of the boot and the amp tray is big enough even on the E93.

Where on the battery do you connect the positive feed? I've seen suggestion of buying an OEM connector to connect to the power distribution block and also people using the bolt which connects the fat cable on the far left of the block. Is it too much to ask for a simple positive bolt these days? Is there something usable nearer to the actual battery terminal?

Also for the ground point, this appears to be hidden under some of the roof parts on the E93. I can't see that removing the bit of carpet on the left rear wheel arch is going to be easy without affecting the adjustment of the roof. Any suggestions?

I'm off to buy some MDF as suggested by the OP.

Edited to add, does anyone know if there is a shallower tray for the E93 to go over the amp?
I connected the power to the main battery connection simply because the power lead is supplied with a connector ring already on. I did buy the proper bmw connector but never bothered using it.
The ground point is above the amp install location behind the carpet, all removed without touching the roof components though.
I used MDF as the OP
I bought the shallower tray as I said above, Still have the bag it came in if you require the part number. It's roughly £45
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      11-17-2013, 01:33 AM   #130
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The shallow bin is no.9 in the picture

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...65&hg=51&fg=65
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      11-17-2013, 02:04 AM   #131
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Excellent thanks!

One important point, for the BMW specific DSP file (supplied by Ed at MAD), do I need to reverse the input and output connections L->R + R->L to adjust for RHD? This is mentioned in another thread but I'm not sure if there is now a RHD specific BMW file?

Cheers,

Ian.
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      11-17-2013, 09:42 AM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs0set View Post
Excellent thanks!

One important point, for the BMW specific DSP file (supplied by Ed at MAD), do I need to reverse the input and output connections L->R + R->L to adjust for RHD? This is mentioned in another thread but I'm not sure if there is now a RHD specific BMW file?

Cheers,

Ian.
Did you have to ask for that from Ed? Don't suppose you can share that can you
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