[ctuna]

So you added a center ?
(As there is no center in a Hi Fi)
And thanks for the report.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by ctuna

So you added a center ?
(As there is no center in a Hi Fi)
And thanks for the report.

Most often than not I add a center speaker to all the HiFi installs that I do.

[DrRobert]

Originally Posted by Technic

Most often than not I add a center speaker to all the HiFi installs that I do.

Are you serious? Seems like everyone around here is down on center channels.

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Are you serious? Seems like everyone around here is down on center channels.

No just wongway & don

[Technic]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

Are you serious? Seems like everyone around here is down on center channels.

I'm not everyone, that's why.

[Wongway]

eh, in my case, it's mostly because it's another point where people will simply do it wrong.

You want a proper center channel, you need:
a) Right processing
b) the right mix. Can't simply send both L and R into the center, as you'd ideally want to process the correct far left and far right material.
c) obviously, this also means, you have to get the right DSP to accomplish this.

In the case of our E90's, the left and right speakers already face each other, so naturally, they already can create a center by bouncing off the dash/windshield.

Mainly though, it's more about simplicity for the average.

Technic however, is a long experienced installer that's probably done more BMW's than we'd touch in our lifetimes (for most of us). I'd trust him to toss in a center speaker a lot more than joe_average reading E90post.

[birdcatcher]

[QUOTE=Technic;16884804]Both aftermarket and OEM speakers were tested with this unit. Definitely aftermarket speakers sound better, however to me the biggest difference is in the OEM tweeters replacement as stated above. OEM mids and even the OEM woofers show improved impact and loudness after tuning.


Hey Technic, can you suggest a direct replacement for the front tweeters which can work in combination with Helix PP82DSP!

As per your experience, it would be "the best bang for the buck" i.e. Helix PP82 + Front tweeters + Center channel (if needed)! An amplifier can be added later to power under-seat woofers and sub in the trunk) later!

[Technic]

Try (3) JL Audio C2 tweeters, (1) for each front door and (1) as an add-on to the center OEM mid in your X5.

Originally Posted by birdcatcher

Hey Technic, can you suggest a direct replacement for the front tweeters which can work in combination with Helix PP82DSP!

As per your experience, it would be "the best bang for the buck" i.e. Helix PP82 + Front tweeters + Center channel (if needed)! An amplifier can be added later to power under-seat woofers and sub in the trunk) later!

[birdcatcher]

Originally Posted by Technic

Both aftermarket and OEM speakers were tested with this unit. Definitely aftermarket speakers sound better, however to me the biggest difference is in the OEM tweeters replacement as stated above. OEM mids and even the OEM woofers show improved impact and loudness after tuning.

Again, the major improvement over the OEM amp is clarity and definition. It is the first thing to be noticed after tuning. And this is without any processing like Logic7, DIRAC or simulated room environment. It is just a great DSP chip inside. Power output is solid considering how small is this unit;, it can be loud and tight with OEM speakers.

Channel configuration was Front - Rear - Center - Left Woofer - Right Woofer - Sub (separate amp), in this channel order.

Hey Technic, can you suggest a direct replacement for the front tweeters which can work in combination with Helix PP82DSP!

As per your experience, it would be "the best bang for the buck" i.e. Helix PP82 + Front tweeters + Center channel (if needed)! An amplifier can be added later to power under-seat woofers and sub in the trunk) later!

[Technic]

I only ask of the center speaker to fill the center stage with just clear voices and highs. The PP82DSP does not have any center speaker-dedicated steering or feature but it does do a great job in filling that space.

Originally Posted by Wongway

eh, in my case, it's mostly because it's another point where people will simply do it wrong.

You want a proper center channel, you need:
a) Right processing
b) the right mix. Can't simply send both L and R into the center, as you'd ideally want to process the correct far left and far right material.
c) obviously, this also means, you have to get the right DSP to accomplish this.

In the case of our E90's, the left and right speakers already face each other, so naturally, they already can create a center by bouncing off the dash/windshield.

Mainly though, it's more about simplicity for the average.

Technic however, is a long experienced installer that's probably done more BMW's than we'd touch in our lifetimes (for most of us). I'd trust him to toss in a center speaker a lot more than joe_average reading E90post.

[birdcatcher]

Originally Posted by Technic

Try (3) JL Audio C2 tweeters, (1) for each front door and (1) as an add-on to the center OEM mid in your X5.

Thanks for the prompt revert!
I read somewhere that the BMW's OEM 4" mids and tweeters sound harsh because of the rudimentary crossover for the tweeters and the fact that there is no crossover for the mids! The Mids try to play all high frequencies (meant for tweeters) and add to the harshness.
Do you think adding a crossover and re-wiring the OEM front Mid through the crossover would make a difference?

[Technic]

Yes, a proper 2-way bandpass/highpass crossover will make a difference.

Plenty of CDT 2-way crossovers on eBay to try.

Originally Posted by birdcatcher

Thanks for the prompt revert!
I read somewhere that the BMW's OEM 4" mids and tweeters sound harsh because of the rudimentary crossover for the tweeters and the fact that there is no crossover for the mids! The Mids try to play all high frequencies (meant for tweeters) and add to the harshness.
Do you think adding a crossover and re-wiring the OEM front Mid through the crossover would make a difference?

[cdgatti]

I have used a center with my helix dsp. But the helix doesn't do proper center, so it is merely L+R. I did it because when I tuned my time alignment for the driver seat, the passenger seat was too right speaker dominant. So I pushed the right speaker out in time to be aligned with the center for the passenger. Then push the left speaker further out for the driver to be aligned with the now pushed out right. Works well - gives me a '2 seat' car!

[Jedclampet]

Thanks to 6spdcoupe/Don I have this unit with a Jehnert flatline kit in my 2011 X3. Very easy install but tuning is critical I struggled with a bright spot near 4k. I added a JL 10 sealed sub enclosure with a Kenwood 600/1 to run it. Overall I'm very impressed detail and textures are its strength and has no problem playing very loud. I prefer 6" or more in the doors vs the 4" but I tried to offset that with a little more level to the under seats. so far it has turned a few heads.

[birdcatcher]

Originally Posted by Wongway

eh, in my case, it's mostly because it's another point where people will simply do it wrong.

You want a proper center channel, you need:
a) Right processing
b) the right mix. Can't simply send both L and R into the center, as you'd ideally want to process the correct far left and far right material.
c) obviously, this also means, you have to get the right DSP to accomplish this.

Isn't it the same thing -
a) "Right processing" = Right DSP
b) "the right mix. Can't ........" = Right DSP
c) "obviously, this also means, you have THE RIGHT DSP..." = Right DSP

[Wongway]

Originally Posted by birdcatcher

Isn't it the same thing -
a) "Right processing" = Right DSP
b) "the right mix. Can't ........" = Right DSP
c) "obviously, this also means, you have THE RIGHT DSP..." = Right DSP

In a way, yes, but parts of the same. The right mix meaning you'll want to send the appropriate signals to the speaker. Simply sending L+R into a center channel isn't a true "center"

How the DSP functions can be important as well. While I'm not familiar with the MS-8 (since these days, it's not highly regarded compared to a lot of available DSPs these days), I know the MS-8 has some form of Logic 7. That algorithm might serve as a pretty important way to get a center channel signal.

Simply saying 'The right DSP, the right DSP, the right DSP' just doesn't quite get the point across

And honestly, the point has been made in the past before. There really isn't a broad compatibility for a center channel. Unless you actively listen to music recorded in 5.1 surround sound (almost none), or watch movies in your car, you'd be designing extra complexity into your system to chance doing it wrong for very little gain. Stereo sound/music (the way 90% of all the music we listen to in our cars is recorded) already has the information encoded to be played back optimally, given a traditional speaker setup. It's not optimized for having a center channel.

You could design a setup similar to what cdgatti did, where you'd artificially delay (even more) the left and right speakers to simulate 2 sweet spots in your car. (Where both the passenger and the driver have the L+R information arrive at their ears at the same time) But honestly, how many people really are going to put that much extra effort in tuning their cars for that phantom passenger that may or may not even notice? It's already difficult enough to properly tune a car for the driver alone.

This is another reason why I'd trust Technic more than joe_average here reading e90post. He's probably had plenty of experience in tuning the sound from our cars to make sure the sound arrives at our ears in the proper manner. Most of us do not.

[birdcatcher]

I am in the process of getting the Helix PP82DSP and the more I am getting into it, the more confused I am

I have a 2012 L7 X5, Objective is SQ and not SPL
I am getting Mobridge + Helix PP82DSP and 2 pairs of tweeters with crossovers for the front doors and center channel (only one will be used for center).
I already have a JL 500/3 amplifier and a ID12 sub.
I plan to use the JL amplifier for the under-seat woofers and the 12" sub, + I'll use the PP82DSP to power the remaining speakers!

Can anyone suggest how I should wire the system

Also, would it be a good idea to use a single channel to power the under-seat woofers + 12" Sub or do the under-seats need stereo (i.e. separate L and R channels) since I would be using them for "mid-bass" between 50Hz to 200Hz!
In the above it will be, 1-2 Front, 3-4 Rear side, 5-6 D-Pillar, 7 - Center, 8- under-seat and Subwoofer driven by 500/3
OR
1-2 Active front tweeters, 3-4 Active front Mids, 5-6 Rear side and D-Pillar in parallel, 7 - Center, 8 - Under-seat and subwoofer powered externally by 500/3

[6spdcoupe]

Originally Posted by birdcatcher

I am in the process of getting the Helix PP82DSP and the more I am getting into it, the more confused I am

I have a 2012 L7 X5, Objective is SQ and not SPL
I am getting Mobridge + Helix PP82DSP and 2 pairs of tweeters with crossovers for the front doors and center channel (only one will be used for center).
I already have a JL 500/3 amplifier and a ID12 sub.
I plan to use the JL amplifier for the under-seat woofers and the 12" sub, + I'll use the PP82DSP to power the remaining speakers!

Can anyone suggest how I should wire the system

Also, would it be a good idea to use a single channel to power the under-seat woofers + 12" Sub or do the under-seats need stereo (i.e. separate L and R channels) since I would be using them for "mid-bass" between 50Hz to 200Hz!
In the above it will be, 1-2 Front, 3-4 Rear side, 5-6 D-Pillar, 7 - Center, 8- under-seat and Subwoofer driven by 500/3
OR
1-2 Active front tweeters, 3-4 Active front Mids, 5-6 Rear side and D-Pillar in parallel, 7 - Center, 8 - Under-seat and subwoofer powered externally by 500/3

That won't work as you only have 2 channels out to an external amp. You would either have to use a broad passband and then the JL amps crossovers (if applicable) or not do it.

Center channel and rears are pointless though. So you can utilize the PP82 for everything up front and then your sub.

[birdcatcher]

Originally Posted by 6spdcoupe

That won't work as you only have 2 channels out to an external amp. You would either have to use a broad passband and then the JL amps crossovers (if applicable) or not do it.

Center channel and rears are pointless though. So you can utilize the PP82 for everything up front and then your sub.

How about 1-2, 3-4, 5-6 for Front, Rear side, D-Pillar, Use the pre-amp out of PP82DSP for pre-amp input to XD500/3 (use that for all three channels), Set the LP crossover on PP82 at 200Hz, Set HP cutoff of 50 Hz for underseat woofers (on the JL 500/3, channel 1-2), and LP 70-80 HZ for the side mounted subwoofer in boot (for JL 3rd channel)!
Ditch the Center!
OR
Same combo with active front 4 channels (tweeters and mid), Rear and D-Pillar in parallel on 5-6, and 7-8 as above!

[birdcatcher]

Originally Posted by 6spdcoupe

That won't work as you only have 2 channels out to an external amp. You would either have to use a broad passband and then the JL amps crossovers (if applicable) or not do it.

Center channel and rears are pointless though. So you can utilize the PP82 for everything up front and then your sub.

In this case I will use a Y-connector from 8th channel of PP82DSP pre-amp out to pre-amp input 1-2-3 of JL 500/3

[mathematics]

Originally Posted by taibanl

No just wongway & don

and me

[birdcatcher]

Originally Posted by mathematics

and me

Any suggestions on how I can use/ wire my PP82DSP + JL 500/3 amplifier!