[CSM3]

Before i begin, i would really like to stress that it is not my nature to drive at excessive speeds on public roads.

That aside, i really seek any member's advice or help on a ticket which i received yesterday while i was driving back from New York City, to Boston after midnight. I was driving on the CT 5/15 North, and was in fact driving very cautiously, as my radar detector had picked up a few cops hiding in the shadows of the dark with the radar pointed at traffic. The roads were completely dark, and i was the only car on the road. After awhile my detector stopped picking up signals, and i started to cruise slightly above the limit of 55 at various stretches ( i was no longer on cruise control, and the road was hilly- up and down).

My girlfriend had just gone to sleep, and i was actually taking it really easy cause my suspension is really firm and i did not want to wake her. In fact i was just having a soft conversation with my back passenger throughout this stretch. Just as i came to the top of a hill, my eyes spotted a reflective looking car some 1/8 mile from where my car was. I flashed my high beam to see what it was, and just as i flashed it, my detector went crazy showing (LIDAR). I immediately slowed to around 40mph, and drove slowly past the cop car.

After passing the cop, he immediately pulled up behind me with his headlights off, and after about half a mile, turned them on, and after another mile of following me at 50mph, he flagged me to pull over.

The cop was a pretty decent chap. he was extremely polite and courteous, but he claimed that his handheld lidar caught me going at 84mph on a 55mph. I can say on this forum that i might have been a little over 55mph due to the ups and downs of the slope, but no where near 65mph, let alone 80! it was down right outrageous.

He gave me a complaint ticket, and said that because the roads were empty, and i was clearly driving in my lane, this offense won't see me in court, but that i would have to be fined $299. I insisted that i wasn't going at 84mph, and even explained to him how i was taking it easy cause my gf was asleep, and that my detector had caught his radar. He corrected me and said "i wasn't using a radar detector", and i could even say "yeah i know it was a lidar! I detected you, and slowed down immediately from my cruising speed of 55mph +-. He seemed really surprised at my detector's capabilities, but insisted that it was 84 and that the lidar was recently calibrated and tested.

Either way, all i care about is that this does not go on my record, and he told me that he is not sure about that because the ticket was issued in CT, and i live in MA. However CT and MA have some reciprocity, so should i fail to pay for the fine, i will have a warrant out in MA. Also he assured me that this ticket i got is no different from if i was caught speeding a mere 1mph above the limit. And he said that by paying the ticket, it doesn't mean i am admitting i was speeding at 84mph, but that i have no contest.

My question to you guys is: Should i pay or fight it?
What will the consequences be if i fight it and lose?
I thought i should just pay it and save myself the trouble from legal fees and time wasted to go to court and other miscellaneous issues. However i stand firm that i wasn't going at 84mph, and my passengers can attest to that (rear passenger). But would that suffice?

Thanks guys!
Happy MLK day!

[cb4]

It's likely that this will show up on your insurance records. I would fight it if I were you. The last ticket I fought the cop was a no show and the judge dismissed it.

Good luck!

[Apogee]

fight it...go to a local dyno and have them right a note that your car actually rides 5- to 10 mph over the speed limit..that should help you out in court.

[CSM3]

Originally Posted by cb4

It's likely that this will show up on your insurance records. I would fight it if I were you. The last ticket I fought the cop was a no show and the judge dismissed it.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Apogee

fight it...go to a local dyno and have them right a note that your car actually rides 5- to 10 mph over the speed limit..that should help you out in court.

Thanks Guys,
But when i questioned the officer, he actually offered to show me the data from his lidar gun, however i ignored it when he brought it up, as i thought it could very well be wrongly recorded, and that he could use it against me in court.

What will the consequence be if i fight the ticket and lose? Do i just pay the fine or could it be worse?

[cyphr]

pm'd

[darkrom]

Fight it for sure. The cop is trying to get you to just pay it. The worst case is you waste some time fighting it and then lose and have to pay. It will likely be on your record so I'm not sure why he lead you to think it wouldn't be. I can't see why not.

I think if you state what you posted here you have a firm case in court and a decent chance in winning. There is absolutely no harm in trying to defend your case. It's not some kind of double or nothing move haha.

[Bendercle]

Sucks man, cops from surrounding New England states really like to pick on us , keep that in mind from now on. Seems like every time someone I know drives out of state they get a ticket. The only ticket I've ever gotten was in Rhode Island, 75 in a 55. Only gotten warnings from good ol' MA cops.

[deven8703]

Yeah, Mass drivers have a reputation all around New England. The rest of NE is fairly rural, and some people like to take their city driving style with them wherever they go. I'm from Maine originally, living in Medford now, and I cringe when I take my Mass plates back north, knowing that with fairly good reason people assume I'm an asshole driver. It sucks for those of us who are good, courteous drivers, but as is the case with almost everything, the idiots mess it up for everyone else.

Either way, if you weren't truly speeding the cop crossed a line, and I would fight it, but word of advice to anyone from Mass driving out of state, stay around the speed limit because you will get pulled over.

[loobie]

I have fought and won a few in CT. if you don't feel you were speeding go in and fight. It costs nothing but time. MA just upped the fees. To fight a ticket here even if you win you will pay 50-150 to fight it.

[loobie]

Originally Posted by darkrom

Fight it for sure. The cop is trying to get you to just pay it. The worst case is you waste some time fighting it and then lose and have to pay. It will likely be on your record so I'm not sure why he lead you to think it wouldn't be. I can't see why not.

I think if you state what you posted here you have a firm case in court and a decent chance in winning. There is absolutely no harm in trying to defend your case. It's not some kind of double or nothing move haha.

depends on insurance. When I had geico years ago they couldnt see MA records. Had a couple tix but a perfect record.

[bmrcfreak]

I'm not sure if it will affect your MA insurance - your best bet is to call your insurance company and find out. If it doesn't, then don't fight it.

If you do appeal it, it's very hard to fight a lidar result b/c they're so accurate. Especially if he said he just had it calibrated. I got pulled over last year on 495 by a statie going 87 in a 65 clocked via lidar. Gave me the ticket, so I contested it. There was no doubt I was speeding, but I figured what the hell I'm going to try. I went in to the appeal and there was a rep from the state police and a clerk magistrate, and I told them I'm not here to deny the fact that I was speeding, I'm here to ask the court for leniency. I told them I had a clean driving record, which the magistrate looked at, and they DISMISSED it! Couldn't believe it. So you never know.

If you do contest it, do yourself a favor and wear a tie and some nice pants. Don't show up like a schlub.

Good luck.

[darkrom]

You can always go with the old "I want to see the machine you used to calibrate it. I want to see when THAT machine was calibrated" trick LOL. Good luck there. Ballsy, but I know one person who insisted it got him out of a ticket completely.

[heatfan03]

last time i thought a ticket for a bs speeding on rt 9 said i was going 70 in a 45 but actually wasnt (for once ) lol going 55 max, fought it and the court magistrate had me do 20 pushups to get out the ticket

(later said it was because i told the truth about my previous driving offenses in Florida even though I was under oath so why would I lie lol)

[cb4]

There are no downsides to fighting it. Other than your time. Worse case you loose and you pay the fine.

In my experiences with other new england states the likelihood of reciprocity is high. I say 80% chance it shows up on you insurance within 6 months.

Your insurance company won't be able to tell you anything until it shows up and then it will be too late.

Take our advice and fight it. Report back here with all of the details. Hope you win!

[TL]

From my experienced in dealing with speed tickets, if you have time always try to fight it. Once you show up to court you have the chance to get the ticket reduced by half. If you're lucky the cop doesn't show up you're off the hook.
Since you got the ticket in CT and not in MA it should not affect your driving record in MA (have a friend call their insurance agent and ask to double check).

[CSM3]

thanks for all the advice. i will definitely consider fighting it and let you guys know the updates as the come by!

cheers

[Rydicule]

Originally Posted by bimmer35

thanks for all the advice. i will definitely consider fighting it and let you guys know the updates as the come by!

cheers

Greetings!

I happen to be from CT, have had a few experiences with speeding tickets here myself, and I also happen to work at business intelligence level at a national insurance company. I have a few things that I can tell you from my personal experience knowledge that will help you out here:


Firstly, it never hurts to do a little research (title 14, chapter 258 of Connecticut General Statutes Annotated, found on the CGA website, outlines vehicle use in CT). Appealing a charge of 14-218a can sometimes lead to a dismissal or a nolle, but unfortunately, the details of your offense would lead me to suspect the violation you're accused of is 14-219c. I can tell you, it will NOT be nolled. However, I would still appeal the ticket. Here's why:


The officer is telling you that your offense is no different than if you were travelling just 1 mph over the speed limit, this is false. He can say that, however, because it is true in terms of CT demerit points. If you plead guilty to travelling 1 mph over the speed limit or 29 mph over the speed limit, you will receive the same amount of demerit points on your license: 0. This is probably even said on the back of your ticket, that by appealing you risk those points.

Personally, I find this "point" system to be friggin criminal with how misleading it is. The state is not going to forgive you for driving like an ass, they will most certainly keep it on your driving record, and while you have no demerit points, they use your driving record (as does insurance score) to determine your driving history.


So there is no downside to appealing. As a matter of fact, I'll tell you that there is almost a certainty of an upside. Unless you are a total jerk to the ADA, you'll get a reduced fine. 85% of the time, I'd estimate it to be about 50% reduced.

The way it works in CT, you mail the ticket in "Not Guilty", you wait a few months, and you'll get a court date. You'll have to go to court, where you'll wait your turn to speak with the District Attorney. Generally, the courtroom is filled with offenders, and they have 1-3 ADAs addressing the cases one at a time. You'll most likely overhear the details of everyone else's case, and they'll overhear yours. You'll quickly learn that you are not alone in this process.

When the ADA asks you why you plead not guilty, tell him what you told us. He'll respond with "Okay. Here's what I can do. I'll knock half the fine off and you pay $150 today, or you can go listen to the officer tell the judge how fast you were going and how uncooperative you were."

Don't take offense to this, it's their job to spin whatever innocent truth there is into an intimidating scenario that you don't want to deal with.

From there, the choice is yours. Honestly, you have no evidence that you weren't speeding (although perhaps witness testimony, that won't have much credibility when it's your girlfriend and your friend), the officer's word is going to be trusted higher than yours, they ALWAYS bring calibration records (although if you are reasonably researched and good at arguing, you could address the "reasonable period of time" portion of the calibration requirement), and it's a crap shoot as to what judge you get and how they are feeling that day. If they go against you, they could actually tack on additional fees and fines. They could throw it out completely because they don't like the cop. Up to you.


Personally, if it were me, I wouldn't go to the judge. I would appeal and plead with ADA, and take what you can get there. Save yourself the trip and take the reduced fine. I know it sucks if you really weren't doing anything wrong, but just think about it this way... how many times have you ACTUALLY sped and NOT been caught? I would guess you're still way ahead of the game.


As for insurance, it won't hit yours. Insurance companies have a hard enough time with getting information from their own state, they won't bother with out of state systems. I've gotten a few tickets in MA and they never hit my insurance. There's also so much more that goes into insurance score these days (credit score being the most heavily weighted variable) that even if it does, the effect won't be nearly what you think it would be.


Good luck to you!

[HK8888]

It's pretty stupid, just dont pay the fees from other state and pray you dont get pull over in the same state again.

[lilrocket58]

Bimmer35, You have to ask yourself, what was the time interval between the time you flashed your high beams and your detector going off?? reason why I ask, LIDAR works by sending a light beams at your car (just light lazer). Becuase, your changed the intensity and frquance of the light coming at the gun there is a chance of the gun miscalculating the distance traveled between pulses (that how it derives is speed) The closer you are the brighter the light concentration. So if you think about it. If you were at 500 feet the lumiues effect might be say 10 when you are at 100 feet the lumiues might be at 50. You changed that linearity by flashing your lights. One second you were are 10 the next second you were at 50. the gun calculates the distance between the two and for you to go from 10 to 50 you must have traveled at 85 and not 55. Beleive or not there is an mathematical algoritham that calcs this. Birghter light appears to be closer then darker light.

I'm not saying that this is what happend. You might want to mention that you flashed your high beams (for whateve the reason) and a split second after your redar detector whent off. There is no laws in CT saying you can not use a detector or a jammer. You can also say that from your limited knowledge of how LIDAR works this might have caused a miss reading on the gun. The judge or the DA will ask the Cop how they "adjust/account" for that. If he does not have an answer your case is dismissed because there is doubt that the gun had a misreading.

Good luck!