[M3WC]

Originally Posted by ar design

You've made a number of claims on here. You have yet to provide any data to back up your claims. End of story.

Just so you know, you are coming off as a grade A douchebag.

Honestly, think about how you are representing your company on forums.

Let your product speak for itself, since you believe it is the best.



Oh by the way, I don't own any dp's. If you think I have a side in this matter.

Your relentless attack on VK threads, leads one to believe you may be losing sales to the lower price alternative and you are not happy about it.

[Sparky66]

Lets focus on India and China....where human rights are a plague of society. Cheaper made products don't always mean lower quality products but to make them cheaper might mean using lower paid, cheaper labour and many times this means using under age workers (kids who should be in school) who live where they work and in putrid conditions. If this is the new world, why don't you try working and living there yourself. It's funny how we all take things for granted, look the other way and turn a blind eye to what's really happening in other parts of the world just to gratify our selfish indulgent selfish lives. Open your eyes people.

[roozie2001]

Originally Posted by easy2speed

I just think it's funny. I used to sell high end cars and the people that buy F430's don't "look" for them. They just decide they want one, and go write a check for it.

theres exotic cars in Alabama? i think its a miracle that you guys even have cars in alabama.

Originally Posted by packinDSS

An overpaid US worker you mean. If he would accept the normal pay for a job "anyone can be trained to do" he would still have a job.

extremely over paid union workers. or an over priced small shop.

Originally Posted by Vince@ V K Motorwerks

Holy shit, I go away for one day and all I log on to see that we were to talk of the town.

Just to make things clear the downpipes are the only item we made in China. However, they were inspected at the port there prior to shipment and then tested here again in the states. We still have high quality standards. What does a customer have to worry about they come with a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects, something goes wrong ship them back we replace them, end of story.


The FMIC and oil cooler are made in the US. The oil cooler has a Derale cooling core with the louvers and other components made in Addison, IL. The FMIC use to use an ETS core that was purchased from Mexico. We would have continued to use the ETS core but they decided that they wanted to do it on there own and even raised the price on the core. So we have now sourced a company out of Japan that makes the core. The end tanks are made in Addison, IL and also welded there. I support my local businesses and I am all for boosting the economy however, trying to deny globalization is just plain dumb. Everything you have probably has a component if not just the raw material coming from another nation. Remember the saying Money makes the world go around!


The e90 community is the biggest winners. They get options. Think about it other down pipes were $800-900 a set before VK's $300 set now they are $500-700 people are still makeing the profit margins but it goes to show how much over charging was going on. Then think about the FMIC's they were all around $1200 at one point, after we put ours out for $580 they are down to $700-800 range now.

This is the beauty of competition.

thanks for not F-ing us on the price. its funny how all these different manufacturers are randomly just knocking $200 off their product. i guess that bmw mark up really made them some serious cash.

Originally Posted by john boxter

who you guys rooting for lol

Originally Posted by john boxter

this thread is so much fun to see vince and andrew go at it ahah im enjoying it

seriously. tool.


its funny how all of you made in USA guys own so much chinese goods. electronics. clothing. you all drive a german car. why didnt you guys buy Vettes or cadillac CTS-Vs. Or why didnt u get mustangs or chargers. cuz your all hypocrites. man up and admit that american labor is over priced and not what it used to be. Also admit that no matter how much you wanna talk about its ONLY a DP. any descent quality metal, with descent bends and descent welds will work.
Price gouging FTL!

[CubanJJ09]

IBTL

[john boxter]

im not sure whose right and whose wrong but what andrew is saying is you cant say its "only a downpipe" because of all the stress it undergoes thats andrews whole arguement. but i am no engineer i do not know

[ssabripo]

Originally Posted by ar design

Weight is not the issue. Heat, vibration, expansion, contraction are.

and you can tell the differences in vibration/heat/expansion/contraction by simply looking at pictures, huh?!

Must be nice to have superhuman powers

[mwahlert]

Originally Posted by bmwmike

Unfortunately, the Chinese generally make crap that is filling our landfills at a faster rate than necessary. It's the fault of the consumer wanting cheap deals. With cheap prices comes poor quality inputs. Not necessarily poor quality trades. The Chinese could make top quality items but generally don't. Corners are cut. You pay for what you get. The Chinese have the market on cheap made products with cheap quality inputs for consumers that want to pay the cheapest price.

Take for example most products you buy that are made in Japan. Japan generally makes very high quality products since their inputs are of high quality. I have a calculator made in Japan that i've used almost every day for over 20 years and the keys look new and i can see the numbers. Try that on a Dell keyboard made in China. You'll have to replace the Dell keyboard after a couple years since the images on the keys wear out. That is an example of wanting cheap priced items and getting poor quality inputs. If i could plug the old Unisys keyboards made in North American years ago into my work computers I'd be buying those used since they last forever.

Go to a computer store that sells Sony and have a close look at their laptop made in Japan vs. one they make in China. Sure, the price of the Japanese made one is double the price but the China made one has very low quality inputs to match the price that consumers are willing to pay.

An example of good quality inputs in a product made in Canada was back when Canada had a shoe manufacturing industry in Ontario. It was well known in the world for the craftsmanship and the quality inputs. Yes, the price was high but you paid for what you got. I still have a pair of hiking boots from 1979 that I use every winter to today and you can see the quality last. Tread that lasts, thick sewing strings, synthetic material that lasts decades without decomposing. I bought a pair of shoes made in China and they lasted a season and then went in the landfill.

this is a bad example because the current line up of macbook pro's are made in china, and make any thing from sony look like junk....

[iNam]

Originally Posted by Kensta335

Seems like Vince and Andrew are the new Shiv and Terry lols.

[vbmw335]

Originally Posted by bmwmike

Unfortunately, the Chinese generally make crap that is filling our landfills at a faster rate than necessary. It's the fault of the consumer wanting cheap deals. With cheap prices comes poor quality inputs. Not necessarily poor quality trades. The Chinese could make top quality items but generally don't. Corners are cut. You pay for what you get. The Chinese have the market on cheap made products with cheap quality inputs for consumers that want to pay the cheapest price.

Take for example most products you buy that are made in Japan. Japan generally makes very high quality products since their inputs are of high quality. I have a calculator made in Japan that i've used almost every day for over 20 years and the keys look new and i can see the numbers. Try that on a Dell keyboard made in China. You'll have to replace the Dell keyboard after a couple years since the images on the keys wear out. That is an example of wanting cheap priced items and getting poor quality inputs. If i could plug the old Unisys keyboards made in North American years ago into my work computers I'd be buying those used since they last forever.

Go to a computer store that sells Sony and have a close look at their laptop made in Japan vs. one they make in China. Sure, the price of the Japanese made one is double the price but the China made one has very low quality inputs to match the price that consumers are willing to pay.

An example of good quality inputs in a product made in Canada was back when Canada had a shoe manufacturing industry in Ontario. It was well known in the world for the craftsmanship and the quality inputs. Yes, the price was high but you paid for what you got. I still have a pair of hiking boots from 1979 that I use every winter to today and you can see the quality last. Tread that lasts, thick sewing strings, synthetic material that lasts decades without decomposing. I bought a pair of shoes made in China and they lasted a season and then went in the landfill.

Different products require different levels of quality and functionality. China is suitable for consumer products and low tech mechanical goods, maybe not so much for high end medical imaging devices or other electronics. If we dont have a chinese manufacturing boom , we wont have wal marts and targets and you will be paying $$'s for basic home goods.

So are you buying all your consumer products from some special store which sells made in usa products?

US made products arent the best quality by default ...you know that.. US made cars fine case in point. Yeah now they are getting there ...

Bottomline ...in this case of a simple DP or several other automotive goods ...they are highly capable and its a total waste of resources and time to be made in a high cost labor country. We should focus on the next generation nano tech and stuff like that and leave the rest to others for an efficient working of economy.

Whether you like it or not ...in the world of globilization ...materials and goods will be made in the cheapest and most efficient way, that's what a flat world does to you.

[ridin135]

Found this thread a couple of days back and figured I would post it up here. This has nothing to do with either of the companies that are in this thread. So what some of you guys are saying is the more you pay the better quality you get, here is an example of how you are wrong. These downpipes are $919 regurarly and on sale for $650 so by your mentality these should be even better then AR's which are $150 less. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302730

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by ETS Michael

Intercooler Differences



eBay Core (This is what most cheap intercoolers are made from)


ETS Core (See the internal density difference?)
Which one do you think will dissipate heat better? You will also see how the ebay core (which is a very reputable vendors core) has slag/drop through on the inside as well as a straight through fin design.

Mike, care to share which vendor the ebay core is associated with?

[ETS Michael]

I don't want to get into a flame war. I will leave it up to the owner of the products. We are building him a new one that will fit in the same dims.

Thanks,

Michael

[packinDSS]

Originally Posted by roozie2001

its funny how all of you made in USA guys own so much chinese goods. electronics. clothing. you all drive a german car. why didnt you guys buy Vettes or cadillac CTS-Vs. Or why didnt u get mustangs or chargers. cuz your all hypocrites. man up and admit that american labor is over priced and not what it used to be. Also admit that no matter how much you wanna talk about its ONLY a DP. any descent quality metal, with descent bends and descent welds will work.
Price gouging FTL!

+1 exactly.

[packinDSS]

Originally Posted by ridin135

Found this thread a couple of days back and figured I would post it up here. This has nothing to do with either of the companies that are in this thread. So what some of you guys are saying is the more you pay the better quality you get, here is an example of how you are wrong. These downpipes are $919 regurarly and on sale for $650 so by your mentality these should be even better then AR's which are $150 less. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302730

+1..again the BMW tax system is beginning to crack. Thanks to VK

[danniexi]

Originally Posted by ridin135

Found this thread a couple of days back and figured I would post it up here. This has nothing to do with either of the companies that are in this thread. So what some of you guys are saying is the more you pay the better quality you get, here is an example of how you are wrong. These downpipes are $919 regurarly and on sale for $650 so by your mentality these should be even better then AR's which are $150 less. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302730

actually they are $650 originally but sell for $550.

but that's besides the point.

[MuchMoore]

Originally Posted by roozie2001

its funny how all of you made in USA guys own so much chinese goods. electronics. clothing. you all drive a german car. why didnt you guys buy Vettes or cadillac CTS-Vs. Or why didnt u get mustangs or chargers. cuz your all hypocrites. man up and admit that american labor is over priced and not what it used to be. Also admit that no matter how much you wanna talk about its ONLY a DP. any descent quality metal, with descent bends and descent welds will work.
Price gouging FTL!

I haven't seen any DPs/ICs, etc made in Germany or I would be seriously interested. As far as owning things made in China...is hard to avoid that now a days (nearly impossible).

[bimmerboy]

Vince, don't let these vendors get to you.. The fact is, you are the peoples champ for making some nice ass downpipes for only $300, and for that as well as your FMIC, the N54 community is thankful.

I agree, parts were very overpriced in the beginning, and now that you are getting some of the market share with your products, they will be forced to compete by dropping their prices. In the end, competition is always a good thing.

my $.02

[john boxter]

BIMMERBOY WELL PUT!!!!!! i do not know i have not bought any vk items but i love how yo respectfully proved your point and ofcourse competition is good ar dropped there prices sooo much so now either one we choose to go they are at a much better price!

[iNam]

Originally Posted by bimmerboy

Vince, don't let these vendors get to you.. The fact is, you are the peoples champ for making some nice ass downpipes for only $300, and for that as well as your FMIC, the N54 community is thankful.

I agree, parts were very overpriced in the beginning, and now that you are getting some of the market share with your products, they will be forced to compete by dropping their prices. In the end, competition is always a good thing.

my $.02

+1 for affordable quality products

[easy2speed]

Originally Posted by roozie2001

theres exotic cars in Alabama? i think its a miracle that you guys even have cars in alabama.

I know you were joking, but I actually went to Houston this March for the Supra TX2K9 and I was unimpressed with the amount of exotic cars I saw. I see more exotics in Alabama.

[ZTUNER]

Originally Posted by Sparky66

Lets focus on India and China....where human rights are a plague of society. Cheaper made products don't always mean lower quality products but to make them cheaper might mean using lower paid, cheaper labour and many times this means using under age workers (kids who should be in school) who live where they work and in putrid conditions. If this is the new world, why don't you try working and living there yourself. It's funny how we all take things for granted, look the other way and turn a blind eye to what's really happening in other parts of the world just to gratify our selfish indulgent selfish lives. Open your eyes people.

You are from Australia right ? Do you really want people to focus on the human rights situation in Australia ? Look in your own house before you open your mouth.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...d-human-rights

Australia itself is a fairly racist country.

Harry

[ZTUNER]

Are you guys serious ? Why are you shitting on a guy for offering cheap parts. If you think they are junk buy elsewhere. Leave the guy alone. Just because a vendor has a german or american sounding name does not imply that the products they sell are made in that country. Heck even your precious 335i is made in freeking south africa.

Harry