[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by 335BBS

There is absolutely zero QUALITY difference between 89 and 94 octane fuel. ZERO. It was proven on CBC Marketplace last night. I agree that If your engine was designed to run on 91 then thats what you should run but if someone chooses to run 89 (not sure why they would) the car will lose a little HP.

The CBC show you are referring to came to that conclusion for REGULAR FUEL CARS - here is the exact title and article:

"Premium gas in regular-fuel cars not cleaner, expert says"
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...emium-gas.html

Cars that use regular fuel but are filled with so-called cleaner premium gas could be harming the environment, says at least one Canadian auto expert.

A CBC Marketplace investigation found many Canadian drivers are paying more for premium gas, believing it's better for their cars and the environment. But Marty Stanfel says unless you own a high-performance car, premium gas could be hard on the wallet as well as the Earth.

Auto expert Marty Stanfel says most drivers can stick to regular gas for their cars.
"It’s actually hurting the environment," said Stanfel, an instructor at the Canadian Automotive and Trucking Institute. "Whether or not you’re cleaning your valves and cleaning the inside of the engine, I couldn’t say that’s true. But I do think you’re hurting the environment now by running the premium fuel in a regular-fuelled car."

Many of Canada's biggest fuel retailers, including Petro-Canada, Shell and Esso, all sell a premium fuel that can improve engine performance and lower emissions. According to Petro-Canada's website, its premium brand SuperClean is "an environmentally responsible choice" that can lead to a 15 per cent emission reduction.

Watch Marketplace's episode, Pump Fiction, Friday at 8 p.m. (8:30 p.m. in Newfoundland and Labrador) for a fresh perspective on premium gas.
But the high-performance, environmentally friendly marketing message can overshadow the fact that premium fuel is only meant for certain cars, and using the wrong fuel can have negative consequences.

Putting premium to the test
In a test conducted for Marketplace, Stanfel fuelled up a 2013 Chevrolet Cruze — which is designed for regular fuel use —with Shell's regular, then premium V-power gas, and simulated identical drives with each. He found the high octane fuel didn’t burn efficiently and produced extra hydrocarbons, compounds that contribute to the formation of greenhouse gases.

'If they use the regularly priced gas … they’d be saving money as well as doing a favour to the environment.'
—Marty Stanfel, Canadian Automotive and Trucking Institute
Stanfel says most drivers can ignore the marketing, because the cheapest gas is also the best one.

“If they use the regularly priced gas… they’d be saving money as well as doing a favour to the environment,” he said.

Toronto resident Karuna Brandy, who owns a Honda Civic, used to buy premium fuel, believing it's better for her car and the environment.

"I’m a yogi eco person," she told Marketplace. "I don’t know if it’s true or not, but in my mind, I believe it’s true that if I buy the higher-grade gas, it burns cleaner."

She was shocked when she learned the results of the testing.

“I'm speechless," she said. “Now I’m driving my car knowing it has premium gas in it, wondering if my emissions are higher than if I was driving my car with regular gas.”

Karuna Brandy was "speechless" when she learned the premium gas she buys can be dirtier than regular. (CBC)
Brandy simply changed her buying habits, but some disgruntled drivers have gone further.

In 2001, Illinois resident Mark Oliveira went all the way to the state Supreme Court with a case against Amoco Oil Company, arguing Amoco violated the state’s Consumer Fraud and Deceptive Business Practices Act. He charged that Amoco used misleading ads claiming its premium gasolines would improve engine performance and benefit the environment. Oliveira was seeking to open the door for a nationwide class action against Amoco, but the court ultimately disagreed.

Do your homework
Gas companies aren’t trying to mislead anyone, insists Carol Montreuil, vice-president of the Toronto-based Canadian Petroleum Products Institute.

He says drivers just need to do their homework.

“One has to look at the driver’s manual,” he said. “It’s very clearly spelled out if you need [premium gas] or not.”

Shell, Husky, Esso and Petro-Canada all declined interview requests for this story, but included similar advice in their responses.

"As each engine is different, we recommend that car owners refer to the manufacturers' recommendations in their manual when determining whether to purchase premium fuel," read an email from Petro-Canada.

“I think that at the end of the day, it’s not the research that should decide — it’s the consumer with the performance they’re getting with their car,” Montreuil added. “No one is forcing anyone to buy this premium gasoline.”

So, the article says to buy whatever gas your car is designed for and the test they performed was premium gas in a vehicle that calls for regular. So your statement for ZERO quality difference between fuels only applies to this scenario and I can certainly say there is more than a "few HP" difference when running 94 vs. 91 or even 100 octane on a tuned 335.

Have fun filling up your 335 with 87 octane, wait why not try diesel next time?

[Dr. G]

Originally Posted by bulldog x6

Have fun filling up your 335 with 87 octane, wait why not try diesel next time?

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by bulldog x6

The CBC show you are referring to came to that conclusion for REGULAR FUEL CARS - here is the exact title and article:

"Premium gas in regular-fuel cars not cleaner, expert says"
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...emium-gas.html




So, the article says to buy whatever gas your car is designed for and the test they performed was premium gas in a vehicle that calls for regular. So your statement for ZERO quality difference between fuels only applies to this scenario and I can certainly say there is more than a "few HP" difference when running 94 vs. 91 or even 100 octane on a tuned 335.

Have fun filling up your 335 with 87 octane, wait why not try diesel next time?

Octane is different..it is not a higher QUALITY fuel. I always use 91-94. 100 in a normal 335 would not yield any gains. You are right about tuned cars though. You wouldnt be able to tell hp gain from 91-94 in a normal road car.

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by 335BBS

Octane is different..it is not a higher QUALITY fuel. I always use 91-94. 100 in a normal 335 would not yield any gains. You are right about tuned cars though. You wouldnt be able to tell hp gain from 91-94 in a normal road car.

You probably could tell the difference depending on the conditions - in a hot summer day, a car running 94 would probably run better (and put down more power at load) than a car running 91. Also re: "quality" - there is no standard definition. The higher tier gas has more octane content and more cleaning agents/additives vs. the base gas - so perhaps some people equate that to quality.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by bulldog x6

You probably could tell the difference depending on the conditions - in a hot summer day, a car running 94 would probably run better (and put down more power at load) than a car running 91. Also re: "quality" - there is no standard definition. The higher tier gas has more octane content and more cleaning agents/additives vs. the base gas - so perhaps some people equate that to quality.

Whats the HP difference going to be between 91 and 94? I think youre right that people equate higher octane to "better" gas. You hear it all the time..."nothing but the best for my car".....

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by 335BBS

Whats the HP difference going to be between 91 and 94? I think youre right that people equate higher octane to "better" gas. You hear it all the time..."nothing but the best for my car".....

Id say more pronounced on a tuned car, like ~10WHP or thereabouts depending on conditions,temp etc. On a stock car - its probably less but definitely noticeable, on the 335 anyways.

[iconfat]

You'd be an absolute idiot to put 87 octane in a 335. Not only is the engine high compression, but also turbo and DESIGNED for 91 octane or higher fuel.
So take whoevers word you want, but I'll follow the BMW engineers word over any news reporter.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by iconfat

You'd be an absolute idiot to put 87 octane in a 335. Not only is the engine high compression, but also turbo and DESIGNED for 91 octane or higher fuel.
So take whoevers word you want, but I'll follow the BMW engineers word over any news reporter.

I think you missed the point here.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by bulldog x6

Id say more pronounced on a tuned car, like ~10WHP or thereabouts depending on conditions,temp etc. On a stock car - its probably less but definitely noticeable, on the 335 anyways.

Probably right on a tuned car but YOU could notice +/- 5 hp? I don't think anyone could unless you are on a track.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by bulldog x6

Id say more pronounced on a tuned car, like ~10WHP or thereabouts depending on conditions,temp etc. On a stock car - its probably less but definitely noticeable, on the 335 anyways.

Just googled it and found a VW GTI on 87 made 203 hp and 207 on 91...about 4 more lbs/ft. Thats a car designed for 91 I believe. Going higher than manuf reccomends yields zero.

[redlineryder]

Tuning makes a big difference on our cars. I had my 100% stock car recently tuned on 94 octane and vdyno showed 350whp/380tq. We first loaded up OTS Stg 1 aggressive and it made 313whp/340tq. On a stock car it won't make much of a difference, you need an aggressive map to take advantage of the additional octane.

Thanks to Dzenno @ PTF for doing a great job

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by 335BBS

Just googled it and found a VW GTI on 87 made 203 hp and 207 on 91...about 4 more lbs/ft. Thats a car designed for 91 I believe. Going higher than manuf reccomends yields zero.

I disagree but it doesn't really matter.

As I said before, any benefit with higher octane depends on the conditions on the dyno and under certain conditions, the higher octane will put down more power (ie in higher heat/load scenarios). And yes, I can tell the difference between 91 and 94 even in my truck without the tune.

[Dr. G]

Originally Posted by 335BBS

Just googled it and found a VW GTI on 87 made 203 hp and 207 on 91...about 4 more lbs/ft. Thats a car designed for 91 I believe. Going higher than manuf reccomends yields zero.

There's a significant difference in my track times when going from 91 to 94 octane.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by bulldog x6

I disagree but it doesn't really matter.

As I said before, any benefit with higher octane depends on the conditions on the dyno and under certain conditions, the higher octane will put down more power (ie in higher heat/load scenarios). And yes, I can tell the difference between 91 and 94 even in my truck without the tune.

Really? Whats the difference?

[bulldog_yyc]

Originally Posted by 335BBS

[/B]

Really? Whats the difference?

acceleration from a stop improved, better responsiveness etc etc and in the x6, which is as heavy as a panzer tank, its very noticable. With the tune, I can turn up the boost another PSI when running 94 vs. 91.

[marcvtec]

Hmmm
I wonder if I should throw a wrench in the mix and start talking about ethonal lol.

Petro94 and shell91 can potentially give the same power since the 94 has ethonal which does not contain as much power in the chamber as the shell91
However you can run more timing on the 94 and probably make up the difference.

Wrench tossed in

[tom_mah]

Ultra 94 and run Map 2 on my JB4+DCI...never looked back!

[Alessandro]

diesel ftw