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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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Dinan II Reflash Dyno
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06-25-2008, 01:19 PM | #67 |
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Exactly. Shiv must have skipped over this one by accident...
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06-25-2008, 02:07 PM | #68 | ||
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One tablespoon of sales puffing + 2 cups of BS make a great "self-preservation" cake. Add a bit of "dual cone" icing and watch out Betty Crocker! Quote:
♫♫♫"Shark Edit killed the Piggy-Back Star"♫♫♫
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06-25-2008, 02:12 PM | #69 |
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oh snap
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Olds Starfire > Chevy Malibu > Isuzu I-mark RS & Honda Magna 500 > Grand Am GT & YSR50 > Nissan Maxima & Ninja 750 > X-Wife > Hyundai Excel > Honda Prelude > Honda Accord > Honda Prelude & Ninja 250> Infiniti G35 > E90 335i > Hyundai Genesis Rspec, Hyunadai Sonata > Kia Sorento > Honda CRV-EX |
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06-25-2008, 02:30 PM | #70 |
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Bubbles, I'm with you. I still have the Flash Classic & am a happy camper.
Question: Are we going to have problems with passing smog? I think I remember something about that being the reason for version/revision stuff. My memory just doesn't go back that far. Another question: Aren't driveline losses different for manual and auto? I rarely see any info on what transmission posters have. |
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06-25-2008, 03:11 PM | #71 |
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06-27-2008, 12:14 PM | #72 |
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My car made 239 HP on a mustang dyno stock. 239 (Dyno HP) divided by 300 (rated HP) = .796 Drive train loss
Flash Dyno was 302 (Dyno HP) diveded by .796 Drive train loss = 379 HP. I'm satisfied. Max boost was 13.6 PSI
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06-28-2008, 09:00 PM | #73 |
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Good results with the Dinan Flash. The car is fast already and anything that makes it faster and comes with a little engineering amd warranty behind it is awesome.
I saw the Vishnu products before I even purchased my car. I was planning to get one, but was confused by the whole solenoid bypass design. The first and most obvious question was why was there a need to do a bypass??? If the device has true control of all the required paramaters (inputs to ECU) why would there be a need to do this? Well, I looked and looked and diagramed the system and watched the install video over and over. No matter how many times I did, the rear turbo wastgate ended up cponnected directly to the vaccum accumulator. I asked a question but was rebuffed by fan boys. The majority opinion was that both accumulators were hooked up through the front solenoid to keep duty cycle times the same. I don't deny that the rear accumulator has a path to the front solenoid, however, it is on the wrong freakin side and has a direct path to the wastegate. I decided to wait. Not a week later, the forum was awash with people with ticking and whiring noises from the.....drumroll......rear turbo wastegate. What did the majority of these people share in common??........Vishnu. I am glad his new systems don't rely on the bypass, but the fact still remains that the initial attempts were not ready for prime time......and let's not forget the daily limp mode posts with the products. I am all for pay to play, but do your homework on your own dime....that is what I expect when I pay for a product. Sorry to vent. I read the post and thought the comments from Shiv were unecessary. I read all of the marketing hyperbole in his posts about technical prowess and engineering capability. He appears to have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.....hence the continuous release of new versions as he continues to learn what he claims to already know. Just my .02 away. |
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06-28-2008, 09:17 PM | #74 | |
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Here's how I see it... Dinan is Macintosh and Vishnu Tuning is PC in the sense that you don't really get to mess with much on a Macintosh because everything is pretty much set -- you just take it out of the box, plug it in, and use it without any worries or problems. It may not be as flexible as the PC, but it works every time. Vishnu is like a PC in the sense that you have more you can mess with... more programs, more settings, more personalization (and cheaper, while we're at it), but you also have the capability of really screwing it up... So it would seem at first that you can't really go wrong with the PC... if you want to play it safe, don't download anything and only use programs that the computer came with... but who does that?? Nobody... everyone's going to be tempted to download the newest program that speeds up their web browser... and then you start running into problems with computer glitches and crashes. The only thing is that with PC's, you can just reformat the computer and start from scratch--no harm done. But with your car, whatever damage is dealt is dealt, end of story.
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06-28-2008, 09:28 PM | #75 |
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i bought my bmw with safeguard and such so i would put gas in it, pay for it, and drive it. then get rid of it.
just went through the whole audi A4 experience to 104K miles and my TCO was $580/month for a car that was butt slow, peeling interior, and not nearly as fun as the 335i. I did alot of PM , some mods to make it how i wanted it to look, and many repairs, still about 2G worth since the warranty ended at 100K miles. so now i have a needs-repairs worth about $5K total street value (after the 2k repairs) audi. The extra hundred bucks a month or so to have a monster without any worries (on-star, free service, free tire replacement when nails) and a very positive experience with the car for me is worth it. I ride share to work so our total cost of ownership and importance of having one great car is much easier to swallow than if you had to rock two decent cars and two gas bills every day. dinan fits my lifestyle. no worries mate. I think OSX sucks i use my mac for light surfing, parallels (XP pro) and firefox and frontrow. thats it.
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06-28-2008, 09:29 PM | #76 | |
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As for the affects of one or both solenoids being used. The solenoids are in parallel to both turbos. One is not controlling one turbo, etc. There is a single vacuum accumulator per solenoid but after the solenoids, there is a single line which later gets Tee'd to each wastegate actuator. To sum up, bypassing one solenoid does not affect a single turbo, it affects both. But now that is irrelevant as V2 and V3 do not require a solenoid bypass. |
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06-28-2008, 09:38 PM | #77 | |
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In other words, we all have reasons for our decisions which suit our capability, desire and/or intentions. That decision will make that choice of tune the best one for the individual. |
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06-28-2008, 11:56 PM | #78 | |
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I have taken pics from the video to highlight the area of concern. The colors are just overlays from the video. Vacuum hoses located. Colors overlayed. Still in stock configuration. Rear Accumulator removed from rear solenoid- Blue color. Tee removed from rear solenoid. Supplied coupler ready. Note: Hose to front solenoid and rear wastegate are connected and never removed from Tee. Supplied coupler inserted. Ready to connect rear accumulator hose. Same Connected Ready to go. Notice that there is no solenoid between the red and blue lines. In the 2nd photo, these lines are seperated by the solenoid, hence the method of control. In the last photo, the rear system is connected to the front system, but on the wrong side of the solenoid. In other words, the yellow hose won't see vaccum from the front accumulater until the front solenoid opens, but it and the red hose always see the vaccum from the blue as they are connected via the T. The front solenoid has very limited control if any in this arrangement. In order to do what you describe, the blue hose or rear accumulator should have been Tee'd to the front accumulator hose before the first solenoid. This would have given full control to the front solenoid. The way this connection is described in the video explains the limps and problems seen with the initial product. This, in my opinion, was a negligent shortcut and the reason I chose to pass on Vishnu. |
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06-29-2008, 07:31 AM | #79 | |
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And as mentioned, this is not the case with V2 and V3, the vacuum lines are in stock configuration. However, the mechanical bypass used by V1, JBx and all other piggy backs is not too different from the electronic signal alterations. In either case, the DME is trying to be fooled to get the desired end results. This has always been the case with piggy back systems. Perhaps the below diagram will illustrate how the vacuum line to the accumulators are fed fromt he same vacuum pump sources. Secondly, it also shows how both solenoids feed both actuators; byapssing one just forces control of both turbos on one solenoid. This is contrast to what you previously alluded that only the rear turbo's actuator was affected which is clearly not the case. Last edited by scalbert; 06-29-2008 at 09:05 PM.. |
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06-29-2008, 12:02 PM | #80 | ||||
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As I stated before, had both accumulators been Tee'd to the front solenoid, the rear would have been bypassed and full control would reside with the front solenoid. The vacuum signal would have reached the rear wastegate through the yellow hose. This setup, however, would cause significant delay in spool up for the rear turbo, hence the reason BMW designed the system the way they did. The video clearly highlights that only connections on the rear system are altered. Look at the video and diagrams again and trace a pressure pulse through the system. Ask yourself how you would control that pulse. If you look at it from that point of view, it should become clear for you. For the record, I know V2 & V3 no longer use the bypass. I wonder why? The point I make is that if you could make such an egregiuos error, either you have no business doing this or you look for shortcuts without exploring the full consequence. Either is too much risk for my hard earned money. If Shiv were to offer a version with warranty on damages to the car (put his money where his mouth is), this would speak volumes. |
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06-29-2008, 04:48 PM | #81 | |
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That two inch section of tubing does not act as a buffer for anything. Unless there is orifice plate or sintered filter in between, the vacuum at the tee, and subsequently the actuators, will be the same. BTW, the solenoids role is not to deliver vacuum but relieve it. Vacuum/pressure always balances its self and remains the case here. If there were a vacuum differential, nature will take care of it and make it equal. FYI, I have removed items, tested and verified functionality as I was considering creating my own product. But there are other aspects of my life which come first and the project was abandoned. Following that I have provided some research on the boost control through testing and have hands on experience with it. |
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06-29-2008, 09:19 PM | #82 | ||||
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Once again, my point is that the bypass, not the design of the existing system, is a poor method and an example of poor engineering. |
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06-29-2008, 09:39 PM | #83 |
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And my point is that bypassing a solenoid has the same affect on both actuators. You may not agree with this but testing, through vacuum tests and monitoring duty cycles of the solenoids shows this result. Regardless of being a good alteration method or not, it does affect both turbos equally.
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06-30-2008, 08:12 AM | #84 | |
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06-30-2008, 11:46 AM | #85 | ||
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06-30-2008, 11:54 AM | #86 | |
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Took a ride in a Dinan tuned 335 yesterday, smooth power . Smooth, not angry.
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06-30-2008, 12:14 PM | #87 |
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Personally, I think Shiv's asking the same exact question I had after seeing those dyno runs.
WTF? How can these figures be so much lower than advertised? I mean, the difference between what he (and many others here now) are getting with their DINAN flash versus DINAN's advertisements is far more than just a standard temperature/humidity variance. Stop bashing Shiv for asking what everyone else wants to know. Why isn't DINAN delivering on it's advertised product? |
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06-30-2008, 12:27 PM | #88 |
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Mustangs read low anyways, which is why the gains shown are the relevant figure, not the absolute result.
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