[mowflow]

So I went for a job interview tonight. Things are pretty stale at my current job, it's got that way that I hate the thought of going every Monday where it used to be a case of not really minding. Hell, sometimes I even used to look forward to it.

My job where I am is stable and it pays enough to keep the family comfortable. The hours are agreeable which means I can have time for hobbies and see my kids every night. Trouble is that I'm at the top of my ladder and don't really see the company going any further beyond where it is. The company hasn't really grown for 5 years but then again I bet the story is worse than that for most.

So this new job. The MD offered me the job on the spot after a long and slightly odd interview. Said he'd been struggling to find someone for months, blew a load of smoke up my arse basically, he was a good salesman so not sure what I believe. The money is at least a 30% rise but the trade off is that I will no doubt be getting rinsed for that with loads of unpaid overtime and the travelling will be such that I will only ever really get to spend time with my kids (1 and 3 at the moment) at the weekend. I guess it's the old question of what matters more. The company is a bit of an unknown as they are just expanding into Glasgow and the industry, although related is also a little unknown to me as its creating apps rather than websites. They seem to have some big clients and jobs in the pipe line with plenty of ambition but it was all being sold on a what could be rather than what is.

I know I'm the only one that can answer the question, I'm not even sure if I'm asking a question. Sometimes it just helps to write to put thing in perspective and maybe get some opinions in the process. So miserable at work, happy at home or rich and miserable

[davyk31]

I would speak to the new MD, tell him my concerns and see how he reacts, he may put your mind at ease or makes some promises that you can remind him off should the hours become a problem.

I would be very family minded and it depends how much you will be away from the kids but to counter that I'm guessing you don't get a lot of time with them anyway through the week. I know even for me working regular hours, home each night about 6, but with kids your age they would be going to bed pretty early anyway.

If you were happy in your current job then it may be different, moving just for more cash but loosing family time would be a non starter. If however you move and like the current job it may make you a happier Daddy all round which will benefit the family.

[mowflow]

Good answer.

I probably only get about 30 minutes with the kids in the morning and at most 2 hours at night but I get all weekend.

I raised my concerns with the MD and he pretty much said that I would be getting rinsed. I think his exact term was "we have a dynamic way of working". I told him I've been there, done that, don't want to do it again and if I was I might as well work for myself. He kind of back tracked a bit when I said this.

[pjs]

Have you checked the company out, i.e. finances, balance sheet etc.? If not, it could help make up your decision?

[mowflow]

How do I do that?

[kev335i]

Tough call I sometimes feel like moving on from my current job but then I think sometimes its better the devil you know then the devil you don't. Since you have bothered to go looking and go for an interview sounds to me like you have definitely decided to move on.
At least in this current climate you are receiving offers so thats a good thing.
all I can say is good luck and all the best with whatever you decide to do.

[pjs]

Originally Posted by mowflow

How do I do that?

Quite a few of on here have access to suitable web services, including me. If you want to pm me the company name and/or ltd number I can let you know.

[Mrsammyp]

www.duedil.com

Will provide you with the latest set of company account which are public.

[MEGA]

The MD has tried to set expectations so that when you get the piss taken, you can't fight it.

Realising he might lose you, he then tried to backtrack: But his first reaction was to put you in your place and make you realise how much of your life you'd be signing away


So see through the smokescreen. You're going in with eyes open. Is the money worth the loss of time? Let's not pretend you won't lose the time. So, is it? Only you know...

[MEGA]

Originally Posted by kev335i

Tough call I sometimes feel like moving on from my current job but then I think sometimes its better the devil you know then the devil you don't. Since you have bothered to go looking and go for an interview sounds to me like you have definitely decided to move on.
At least in this current climate you are receiving offers so thats a good thing.
all I can say is good luck and all the best with whatever you decide to do.

I've had loads of phone interviews and have no idea if I plan to leave or not. It's not fair to say interview = you've decided to leave.


mowflow, as an alternative. Is there really nowhere further to go where you are? Really? Present them with a written job offer from this new place and see what they can do! 5 years working with a group of people is a long time. Perhaps now is time for them to find you something more rather than let you go?
Furthermore, if you then back down and stay - they'll probably actually thank you for it, as long as you play the politics right whilst announcing it..

When it comes down to it this is a very tough and very personal call.

[kev335i]

ok maybe poorly worded. Should perhaps of said sounds like you are seriously contemplating moving on.
regardless the sentiment was to wish him luck with his decision and that still stands

[briers]

You can't put a price on missed time seeing your kids grow up

It's not worth it and with most jobs your disappointment could arrive much sooner with the hassle being away from the kids / wife. It might stress your relationship too.

Just my opinion

[mowflow]

Thanks for the offer PJS. I may well send on their details.

Dave is correct. Applying for and going to an interview doesn't necessarily mean I've already gone. At least once a year I get pissed off, update my CV and start looking for a move. This was the first time I actually applied for anything though.

Unfortunately the only position above me in the current company is the owner. Sure I will continue to get wage rises but beyond a miracle I can't see it ever being what it could.

The other flip side of all of this is finally doing what I've always said I would and working for myself. I mean, if you're going to knock your pan in you might as well do it for yourself.

[mowflow]

Originally Posted by kev335i

ok maybe poorly worded. Should perhaps of said sounds like you are seriously contemplating moving on.
regardless the sentiment was to wish him luck with his decision and that still stands

It's much appreciated.

All the comments are helping sort things in my mind. My wife was all devils advocate about it swinging one way and then the other.

[Alex.J]

I think sometimes it's a step back and see what you have.

Is money tight currently? Will the 30% lift financial strains?

If no, and it's just a nice bonus it's less inviting.

Do you feel you get enough time with your children currently?

If no, then this job isn't for you, regardless how great it is elsewhere..

Finally, if money and family life where no object, would you move to the new job role for a like for like situation?

[xenon]

Originally Posted by MEGA

Present them with a written job offer from this new place and see what they can do!

Each to their own but I would never, ever, ever, ever recommend doing that. Perhaps it's worked for you Dave but as an employer there is nothing that makes my hackles rise more - I would never be held to ransom like that. I have said to an employee who presented me with a "look how much I could be earning" scenario: "That's great! I wouldn't feel right holding you back so shall we say the end of the week?"

Unless you really want the new job that action might force you into it. I would never be held to ransom.

[phil200tdi]

Originally Posted by xenon

Each to their own but I would never, ever, ever, ever recommend doing that. Perhaps it's worked for you Dave but as an employer there is nothing that makes my hackles rise more - I would never be held to ransom like that. I have said to an employee who presented me with a "look how much I could be earning" scenario: "That's great! I wouldn't feel right holding you back so shall we say the end of the week?"

Unless you really want the new job that action might force you into it. I would never be held to ransom.

+1

If they make an offer to keep you when you resign then that is different.

[xenon]

Originally Posted by phil200tdi

+1

If they make an offer to keep you when you resign then that is different.

Indeed.

[dobbo99]

30% rise is a significant amount, I'm assuming your not on a minimum wage scenario here as well. Surely that offers you a new level of security and comfort?

In the last 2 years I've got married and we have a 6month old boy, kids and the family have been a huge levelling factor on my aspirations. Having worked in London for many years I was always clambering for the next big thing, which is not what I have now.
I am well paid, but underpaid in comparison to my previous London earnings, but only live 10mins from the office and am home by 5.30pm at the latest.
I don't overly enjoy the work or the people and my motivation levels certainly are not as strong as they once were, but I seem to be able to offset that by being able to have so much family time.

Ive been on the verge of leaving a couple of times in the last 18months, but each time I weighed up the pro's and cons's Ive ended up thinking that "money cannot buy me time"
In that same period, 3 or 4 sales guys have left and come back, so its not always "greener" somewhere else.

For me, that you asking questions isn't a positive thing, as if you knew it was right you would just go for it.

Did you not post about wanting to go it on your own/with a colleague a few months ago? What happened with that scenario? If I had the opportunity to go alone, then Id be more tempted in that route than to put in the effort into starting again with a new employer.

[SteveC]

Write a realistic plan for yourself....your priorities, what you want to achieve in business, earnings, ambitions, family and so on
Then rank each by scoring their relative importance out of 10

Then evaluate your current and potential jobs by how well they match your goals i.e score each job on how well it fulfils all your goals (1-10) then multiply rank by score. You'll then have an objective way to compare current with potential job.

What you're actually saying is that your current job meets a lot of your priorities but that you are utterly stale doing what you do. If you are positioned 1 down from the owner, get proactive, write a new job spec for yourself that adds the responsibilities, tasks and presumably excitement you're looking for then go to your boss and put your cards on the table. "I'm bored/under challenged. Here's what I could be doing for you. Here's what I think its worth. Here's my alternative". In that way you become part of the solution and not just the problem.

If the owner of the company doesn't know where to drive it for growth and you do...step forward. Job satisfaction isn't always someone else's responsibility

[mowflow]

Originally Posted by xenon

Each to their own but I would never, ever, ever, ever recommend doing that. Perhaps it's worked for you Dave but as an employer there is nothing that makes my hackles rise more - I would never be held to ransom like that. I have said to an employee who presented me with a "look how much I could be earning" scenario: "That's great! I wouldn't feel right holding you back so shall we say the end of the week?"

Unless you really want the new job that action might force you into it. I would never be held to ransom.

No, I get where Dave is coming from as i know people that have done such things in larger companies. In a smaller company where the employee is dealing directly with the owner of the company I can absolutely understand how they would take it as being held to ransom.

The company i work for is small and for better or worse my employer has become a friend to a certain degree. I know he would not appreciate such an approach and at the end of the day the move is not financially motivated. I'm far from well off but also far from minimum wage and the money being offered only works out at a couple of hundred £s extra a month due to HMRC.

Originally Posted by SteveC

Write a realistic plan for yourself....your priorities, what you want to achieve in business, earnings, ambitions, family and so on
Then rank each by scoring their relative importance out of 10

Then evaluate your current and potential jobs by how well they match your goals i.e score each job on how well it fulfils all your goals (1-10) then multiply rank by score. You'll then have an objective way to compare current with potential job.

What you're actually saying is that your current job meets a lot of your priorities but that you are utterly stale doing what you do. If you are positioned 1 down from the owner, get proactive, write a new job spec for yourself that adds the responsibilities, tasks and presumably excitement you're looking for then go to your boss and put your cards on the table. "I'm bored/under challenged. Here's what I could be doing for you. Here's what I think its worth. Here's my alternative". In that way you become part of the solution and not just the problem.

If the owner of the company doesn't know where to drive it for growth and you do...step forward. Job satisfaction isn't always someone else's responsibility

Great advice and with another offer stuffed in my back pocket (and staying there) there's nothing to lose.

I know for a fact my boss prefers people to come to him with this type of attitude/approach. In the past, for some unknown reason other members of staff have come to me with problems and i've helped with solutions for them so weird that i've not applied this thought to my own situation. I know I could be a lot more active in helping grow the business, I would like to feel that I have ownership in some way rather than just another employee.

dobbo99. (sorry, forgot to hit quote)
It was me that posted about starting something of my own with a colleague. It's not an avenue that I have closed, quite the opposite although further discussion has made it more likely that I will not be going into a partnership so plans are back to square 1 at the moment. It will happen but in the meantime I can do something about the current situation.

I'd like to thank everyone for their advice. It has really helped clarify a route to hopefully creating a more rewarding working life. There's not a single bad bit of advice in this thread. Once again e90post proves it's worth to me.

[Alex.J]

Good stuff.. From response to other posts you answered all my questions above and sounds as if it's best to stay put..