335d Hesitates at 2.8-3.2k rpm

rsmallwo · 06-19-2012, 02:46 PM

cant really tell if small turbo is spooling up. thinking about it, dont have that slight turbo whine at lower revs you normally get....i think! its with indy garage now :-S

rsmallwo · 06-20-2012, 02:50 PM

indy says its my other pressure controller at fault. they replaced the one on the big turbo 1st time round. but theres one for each turbo and bmw reccommend changing both if one goes. hoping we can come to some arrangement on the labour since they should have really offered replacing both first time round.

rsmallwo · 07-01-2012, 03:05 PM

well, ive had the pressure controller on the small turbo done and after some dodgy flexhose all seems well again. low down it feels like it pulls even abit more than normal but...when driving at 40 and then flooring it doesnt seem as ferious as before, not until it gets past 3.5k revs. As both pressure controllers have been done, does my remap need tweaking?. If I keep the car in 2nd and gun it from 1.5k revs to redline it just has a constant amount of shove, no lull at 2.8-3.5, but I cant remember if the shove should increase at this mark. The slight dim in performance is the 40 then gunned scenario.

335DEE · 07-01-2012, 05:31 PM

Sounds like you are where I am at , mine doesn't feel as furious either .. things as they stand now are , all vac hoses , vac tank , pressure controllers , red boost hose all changed. latest map from sc gives a smooth pull to about 2.5k then it feels like it tails off till 3k ish comes up where it takes off again. I've got to the point now that I want a RR session with someone who has diag equipment where we can see whats happening. I Am considering going somewhere to get my injectors looked at as well as change the fuel filter. I have no idea of costs of having them serviced but seeing as mine has 88k on the clock there is bound to be some ageing of the turbos & injectors. Another thing I am going to do while i think about it is to do a boost leak test on the car. Not sure whats the best way but I have access to a smoke machine .. i'm sure with a bit of duct tape and rubber tubing that I can come up with something ,

mistryn · 07-02-2012, 11:51 AM

I have been doing some further research as I am having similar problems as above. To me between 1850-2750 revs there does not seem to be the sharp pull (pinning to the seat) as before when I bought the car. Once I hit past the 3k rev mark and the big turbo kicks in thats when I know things are moving.

I have changed the red boost pipes, along with the seals. Also the seals on the other side of the pipe which goes back to the inlet manifold. I have checked vacuum hoses the best I can, changed the oil breather pipe to help the engine breathe if the other other one was blocked.

I seem to get the above intermietantly, when it has goine into a dealer nothing has been picked up and made me look like a right idiot. Next on my list is the pressure convertors. But before I put my order in the for the pair I decided to plug in my INPA and the only code came up was 41AA - looking this up on google seems to suggest a Boost pressure sensor. Then I was reading this in the 5 series section on another forum which got me thinking maybe the boost pressure sensor is at fault and going to replace this before looking at changing the pressure convertors.

http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...-cured-t82595/

Quote:

My 320d has now gone and I’ve bought a 2006 (registered early 07) E61 520d. This has the M47TU2d20 engine (161 or 163bhp).

Not long after buying it, it developed a really annoying, intermittent and ever-changing fault.
1. It was terrible from low-revs. Even in neutral, it was very slow to respond to throttle, and in-gear it was bloody dangerous. Sometimes I had to ride the clutch up to 2000rpm and I couldn’t pull away up hill!
2. No matter what the engine speed, there was a crazy lag between throttle and response. Like I was driving a car with a huge turbo with bad lag.
3. Sometimes it wouldn’t come on boost until 2200rpm (my 320d was strong from 1600rpm).
4. Sometimes, when on boost, it would hesitate as the revs climbed – rather like a mis-fire or flat spot.
5. Sometimes, it would not rev past 3750rpm.
6. Sometimes, the turbo would make a (non-load, non-engine speed related) escaping gas noise.
7. Sometimes, it was just fine!

My initial thoughts were MAF, EGR valve and expensive turbo problems! A basic (non BMW) diagnostic showed nothing.

After weeks or checks, elimination and research I have finally cured it. This is what I did.

1. Visual check of all boost pipes and vacuum hoses. All fine.
2. Swapped MAF with identical and known good MAF from wife’s car. No change.
3. 2 doses of ‘Forte’ and 600 miles of very hard driving (under 28mpg average!) This resulted in several successful regens of the DPF. No change.
4. Disconnect EGR vacuum pipe and blank off the pipe with an 8mm bolt (so that the ECU still detects a load on the vacuum pipe). This resulted in a yellow emissions warning on iDrive which vanished 2 days after reconnecting. Overall – no change.
5. Remove, clean and check operation of EGR valve. No change.
6. Check operation of turbo actuator arm. I did this by watching it while my wife revved the car. The actuator moved, but not as much as expected and seemed unrelated to throttle position. (£££worry!)
7. Check air filter element. Fine (5 months and 6k miles old), but given a thorough clean. No change.
8. Remove and clean MAP sensor (by bathing in petrol). Refit. Significant difference!!! All problems improved but throttle response now very ‘on/off’. Still intermittent power loss under acceleration.
9. Replace MAP sensor (part number 7 787 142. £70 from BMW). All issues now cured.
The MAP sensor (manifold absolute pressure) sensor detects the pressure (boost) in the manifold which the ECU compares to the volume of air passing the MAF. Boost is adjusted dependent on this pressure by the turbo actuator and fuel supply. A faulty MAP sensor will play havoc with your boost and may give symptoms similar to a duff MAF, turbo or EGR valve – all of which cost much more than £70!
You need a small mirror, a spanner, 20 minutes and dexterity to change your MAP sensor – nothing else. It would be more difficult on a 3 series as the manifold is further back under the lip of the bulkhead.

I can and will add a few photos of the location of the MAP if anyone is interested.

If someone can tell me where this is located on the 335D engine I can take it out give it a clean and check before I order a new one

335DEE · 07-02-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistryn

I have been doing some further research as I am having similar problems as above. To me between 1250-2750 revs there does not seem to be the sharp pull (pinning to the seat) as before when I bought the car. Once I hit past the 3k rev mark and the big turbo kicks in thats when I know things are moving.

I have changed the red boost pipes, along with the seals. Also the seals on the other side of the pipe which goes back to the inlet manifold. I have checked vacuum hoses the best I can, changed the oil breather pipe to help the engine breathe if the other other one was blocked.

I seem to get the above intermietantly, when it has goine into a dealer nothing has been picked up and made me look like a right idiot. Next on my list is the pressure convertors. But before I put my order in the for the pair I decided to plug in my INPA and the only code came up was 41AA - looking this up on google seems to suggest a Boost pressure sensor. Then I was reading this in the 5 series section on another forum which got me thinking maybe the boost pressure sensor is at fault and going to replace this before looking at changing the pressure convertors.

http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...-cured-t82595/

If someone can tell me where this is located on the 335D engine I can take it out give it a clean and check before I order a new one

Thats quite interesting , I have an ELM327 Bluetooth OBD and can read the boost and absolute pressure ( i think). I will shoot out and do another run to see what it reads.
What kind of values would you expect ?? boost pressure + 1 atmosphere??
It's listed as 'Intake manifold pressure' on the app , i'll assume it's the same thing.

mistryn · 07-02-2012, 01:48 PM

I am not to sure what values it should read, maybe someone with a bit more knowledge can help. I presume it is the intake manifold pressure app but not sure

Do you you know where this is located?
If I can find out where it is I can remove it and clean it with electrical contact cleaner and see if that works before replacing it

BTW what type of diag software/scanner are you using if you dont mind me asking?

335DEE · 07-02-2012, 03:46 PM

As suspected the values are whatever the boost pressure is + 1 ATM or 1bar ish .. i've got a video coming up showing the MAP values which in my opinion look way to accurate .. as if they are calculated from the boost value.

I dont know where the map sensor is located , i've had a scour over realoem to see where it is.

The software i use on the ELM327 is http://torque-bhp.com/ a very cool piece of software done by a very clever guy and only for a couple of quid too (android only) , it's always being updated and new features added.

mistryn · 07-02-2012, 04:08 PM

thanks for the link for the software. I have had a look over realoem but on the 5 series the map sensor is located on the back of the inlet manifold and held on with 1 bolt. On real it is referenced as a fuel pressure sensor and not a map which is confusing.

I have had a look under the e92 and it does not show anything behind the manifold so I am a bit stumped. I have texted my mechanic and he said on the e92 it is located on the inlet charge pipe but when I look on real its shows up as a temp sensor. I have pm'ed bmw hereford to see what they say and will update
no 16
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...88&hg=11&fg=40

what confuses me even more is that when i search for a e92 330D the map sensor is located on no 7
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...77&hg=11&fg=40

whereas when you search for a 335d it is not there?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...52&hg=11&fg=40

rsmallwo · 07-02-2012, 04:25 PM

mistryn, i would say your issue is pressure convertor on ur small turbo. u quote quite a large rev range. The test is to just keep it in 3rd and give max throttle(no kick down) from 1.5k to 3k, if it just bogs right down and creeps up in speed then thats what i had. once fixed the difference was night and day, just flys now. however, mine wasn't intermittant. Could always replicate the issue.

in my current case, slight lull at 3k revs. I wonder if the new pressure controllers i've got need configuring in the ecu in some way.....

335DEE · 07-02-2012, 04:26 PM

On the video i am currently uploading the shows the OBD value as working fine .. if it is indeed a raw value no a derived one.

Might well be worth spending 20 quid on an ELM327 dongle to check basic values rather than going all out to replace stuff that is intact and working well.

There are a few values i'd like to see on this software things like fuel pressure and EGT which isn't currently supported.

Fuel filter change for me next i think.

mistryn · 07-02-2012, 04:31 PM

rsmallwo - I will give this a try tommorow and report back. As there are 2 pressure convertors on the 35D do you know which one is for the small turbo? Or am I better off replacing both of them at the same time?

But one thing that is swaying me towards the boost pressure sensor is because it is coming up a fault code when I run INPA?

o0timbo0o - Just realised Ive only changed my phone to iphone last week and my other phone is windows based so bit stuck to use the software lol

335DEE · 07-02-2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mistryn

rsmallwo - I will give this a try tommorow and report back. As there are 2 pressure convertors on the 35D do you know which one is for the small turbo? Or am I better off replacing both of them at the same time?

But one thing that is swaying me towards the boost pressure sensor is because it is coming up a fault code when I run INPA?

o0timbo0o - Just realised Ive only changed my phone to iphone last week and my other phone is windows based so bit stuck to use the software lol

best to change both , i still got my old style 2 somewhere , fully functional .. new ones are slightly different which requires a new mounting bracket .

mistryn · 07-02-2012, 04:44 PM

any chance you can post a pics of them when yo have some time? Just want to double check what they look like?

335DEE · 07-02-2012, 04:45 PM

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699425

mistryn · 07-02-2012, 04:48 PM

Just found out where the map is located I was looking at the wrong diagram
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...77&hg=11&fg=40
no 7

mistryn · 07-03-2012, 07:19 AM

I have just ordered the MAP/fuel pressure sensor from BMW and will update over the weekend. The parts guy did confirm to me the MAP is the boost pressure sensor but on their system it comes up as a fuel pressure sensor.

My drive to work this morning, I did accelerate in 3rd gear from about 1600k and it did pull, maybe not as hard but Im not sure. I have noticed I only get these hesitancy issues when the engine is warm so I will change this first and then if it still remains then look at changing the pressure convertors.

06-19-2012, 02:46 PM	#23
rsmallwo Captain 40 Rep 939 Posts Drives: Z4 35i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Hull iTrader: (0)	cant really tell if small turbo is spooling up. thinking about it, dont have that slight turbo whine at lower revs you normally get....i think! its with indy garage now :-S
	Appreciate 0 Quote

06-20-2012, 02:50 PM	#24
rsmallwo Captain 40 Rep 939 Posts Drives: Z4 35i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Hull iTrader: (0)	indy says its my other pressure controller at fault. they replaced the one on the big turbo 1st time round. but theres one for each turbo and bmw reccommend changing both if one goes. hoping we can come to some arrangement on the labour since they should have really offered replacing both first time round.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-01-2012, 03:05 PM	#25
rsmallwo Captain 40 Rep 939 Posts Drives: Z4 35i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Hull iTrader: (0)	well, ive had the pressure controller on the small turbo done and after some dodgy flexhose all seems well again. low down it feels like it pulls even abit more than normal but...when driving at 40 and then flooring it doesnt seem as ferious as before, not until it gets past 3.5k revs. As both pressure controllers have been done, does my remap need tweaking?. If I keep the car in 2nd and gun it from 1.5k revs to redline it just has a constant amount of shove, no lull at 2.8-3.5, but I cant remember if the shove should increase at this mark. The slight dim in performance is the 40 then gunned scenario.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-01-2012, 05:31 PM	#26
335DEE Captain 38 Rep 735 Posts Drives: M3 DCT Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: England iTrader: (1)	Sounds like you are where I am at , mine doesn't feel as furious either .. things as they stand now are , all vac hoses , vac tank , pressure controllers , red boost hose all changed. latest map from sc gives a smooth pull to about 2.5k then it feels like it tails off till 3k ish comes up where it takes off again. I've got to the point now that I want a RR session with someone who has diag equipment where we can see whats happening. I Am considering going somewhere to get my injectors looked at as well as change the fuel filter. I have no idea of costs of having them serviced but seeing as mine has 88k on the clock there is bound to be some ageing of the turbos & injectors. Another thing I am going to do while i think about it is to do a boost leak test on the car. Not sure whats the best way but I have access to a smoke machine .. i'm sure with a bit of duct tape and rubber tubing that I can come up with something ,
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-02-2012, 01:48 PM	#29
mistryn Colonel 147 Rep 2,048 Posts Drives: BMW 335D Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mids iTrader: (8)	I am not to sure what values it should read, maybe someone with a bit more knowledge can help. I presume it is the intake manifold pressure app but not sure Do you you know where this is located? If I can find out where it is I can remove it and clean it with electrical contact cleaner and see if that works before replacing it BTW what type of diag software/scanner are you using if you dont mind me asking?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-02-2012, 03:46 PM	#30
335DEE Captain 38 Rep 735 Posts Drives: M3 DCT Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: England iTrader: (1)	As suspected the values are whatever the boost pressure is + 1 ATM or 1bar ish .. i've got a video coming up showing the MAP values which in my opinion look way to accurate .. as if they are calculated from the boost value. I dont know where the map sensor is located , i've had a scour over realoem to see where it is. The software i use on the ELM327 is http://torque-bhp.com/ a very cool piece of software done by a very clever guy and only for a couple of quid too (android only) , it's always being updated and new features added.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-02-2012, 04:08 PM	#31
mistryn Colonel 147 Rep 2,048 Posts Drives: BMW 335D Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mids iTrader: (8)	thanks for the link for the software. I have had a look over realoem but on the 5 series the map sensor is located on the back of the inlet manifold and held on with 1 bolt. On real it is referenced as a fuel pressure sensor and not a map which is confusing. I have had a look under the e92 and it does not show anything behind the manifold so I am a bit stumped. I have texted my mechanic and he said on the e92 it is located on the inlet charge pipe but when I look on real its shows up as a temp sensor. I have pm'ed bmw hereford to see what they say and will update no 16 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...88&hg=11&fg=40 what confuses me even more is that when i search for a e92 330D the map sensor is located on no 7 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...77&hg=11&fg=40 whereas when you search for a 335d it is not there? http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...52&hg=11&fg=40
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-02-2012, 04:25 PM	#32
rsmallwo Captain 40 Rep 939 Posts Drives: Z4 35i Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Hull iTrader: (0)	mistryn, i would say your issue is pressure convertor on ur small turbo. u quote quite a large rev range. The test is to just keep it in 3rd and give max throttle(no kick down) from 1.5k to 3k, if it just bogs right down and creeps up in speed then thats what i had. once fixed the difference was night and day, just flys now. however, mine wasn't intermittant. Could always replicate the issue. in my current case, slight lull at 3k revs. I wonder if the new pressure controllers i've got need configuring in the ecu in some way.....
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-02-2012, 04:26 PM	#33
335DEE Captain 38 Rep 735 Posts Drives: M3 DCT Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: England iTrader: (1)	On the video i am currently uploading the shows the OBD value as working fine .. if it is indeed a raw value no a derived one. Might well be worth spending 20 quid on an ELM327 dongle to check basic values rather than going all out to replace stuff that is intact and working well. There are a few values i'd like to see on this software things like fuel pressure and EGT which isn't currently supported. Fuel filter change for me next i think.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-02-2012, 04:31 PM	#34
mistryn Colonel 147 Rep 2,048 Posts Drives: BMW 335D Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mids iTrader: (8)	rsmallwo - I will give this a try tommorow and report back. As there are 2 pressure convertors on the 35D do you know which one is for the small turbo? Or am I better off replacing both of them at the same time? But one thing that is swaying me towards the boost pressure sensor is because it is coming up a fault code when I run INPA? o0timbo0o - Just realised Ive only changed my phone to iphone last week and my other phone is windows based so bit stuck to use the software lol
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-02-2012, 04:44 PM	#36
mistryn Colonel 147 Rep 2,048 Posts Drives: BMW 335D Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mids iTrader: (8)	any chance you can post a pics of them when yo have some time? Just want to double check what they look like?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-02-2012, 04:45 PM	#37
335DEE Captain 38 Rep 735 Posts Drives: M3 DCT Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: England iTrader: (1)	http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699425
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07-02-2012, 04:48 PM	#38
mistryn Colonel 147 Rep 2,048 Posts Drives: BMW 335D Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mids iTrader: (8)	Just found out where the map is located I was looking at the wrong diagram http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...77&hg=11&fg=40 no 7
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-03-2012, 07:19 AM	#39
mistryn Colonel 147 Rep 2,048 Posts Drives: BMW 335D Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Mids iTrader: (8)	I have just ordered the MAP/fuel pressure sensor from BMW and will update over the weekend. The parts guy did confirm to me the MAP is the boost pressure sensor but on their system it comes up as a fuel pressure sensor. My drive to work this morning, I did accelerate in 3rd gear from about 1600k and it did pull, maybe not as hard but Im not sure. I have noticed I only get these hesitancy issues when the engine is warm so I will change this first and then if it still remains then look at changing the pressure convertors.
	Appreciate 0 Quote