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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > FYI... for 335...software update from BMW will equal power...



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      04-21-2007, 11:26 PM   #111
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      04-22-2007, 02:04 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by epiphone3 View Post
what about us morons who think it would cut into 550i sales (i.e. if the reflash was done on the 535i as well)
Performance-minded owners (like all of us thread-heads) already know the 335i matches the 550i's performance (Car and Driver tested the 335i and 550i in the same month and the 335i was a bit quicker to 60, to 100, and in the 1.4 mile!!).

Laypeople (the normal clientel) care mainly what number the BMW begins with (higher = better, of course).

So if some performance-minded buyers can pay a grand or so to get an extra 30-60 HP (depending on whether you count the current HP at 300 or the actual 330) they will all do it and BMW will score $1000s in pure profit only cost is 15 minutes of a $12/hour tech's time = $3 ). Plus it will ward off the 330 HP G37.

It also will prevent these owners from having a more aggressive tuner cause long-term problems, which is bad for warranties and PR.

There is enough of a price gap between the 335i and M3 that BMW would be brilliant to come out with a performace package that includes the reflash (350 HP sounds about right), LSD (but not one as good as the M3's), some different wheels, a mild body kit, and maybe slightly stiffer suspension for about $4-5K. This would put this model mid way between a 335i and an M3, and would make BMW a ton more cash.

BMW, are you listening??
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      04-22-2007, 03:10 AM   #113
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I'm sure they are... They're probably testing it out now to determine the long range impacts of their proposal. If it lasts 4 years and one day before any notable damage, then it's a "go". Then the $12/hour tech's time (more like $36/hr)= $$$$ to trouble shoot a limp engine/blown turbo which = more business.
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      04-22-2007, 09:53 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by BavarianRocket View Post
Ok..... spent time with my SA last night.... just happens to be a friend from high school years ago.

The answer is they are coming out with the upgrade... he didn't know what the price was but he was told a 20% gain so 60 hp.
Interestingly, the Alpina B3 also provides a 20% gain, over BMW's advertised numbers of 306 HP/300 lb-ft, to 360 HP/369 lb-ft. But we know from the dynamometer of a completely stock 335i that the increase is actually closer to 10%. 10% above stock is enough to notice a difference though.
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      04-22-2007, 10:04 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e36jakeo View Post
Performance-minded owners (like all of us thread-heads) already know the 335i matches the 550i's performance (Car and Driver tested the 335i and 550i in the same month and the 335i was a bit quicker to 60, to 100, and in the 1.4 mile!!).

Laypeople (the normal clientel) care mainly what number the BMW begins with (higher = better, of course).

So if some performance-minded buyers can pay a grand or so to get an extra 30-60 HP (depending on whether you count the current HP at 300 or the actual 330) they will all do it and BMW will score $1000s in pure profit only cost is 15 minutes of a $12/hour tech's time = $3 ). Plus it will ward off the 330 HP G37.

It also will prevent these owners from having a more aggressive tuner cause long-term problems, which is bad for warranties and PR.

There is enough of a price gap between the 335i and M3 that BMW would be brilliant to come out with a performace package that includes the reflash (350 HP sounds about right), LSD (but not one as good as the M3's), some different wheels, a mild body kit, and maybe slightly stiffer suspension for about $4-5K. This would put this model mid way between a 335i and an M3, and would make BMW a ton more cash.

BMW, are you listening??
I was actually referring to 535i vs. 550i and not 335i. Give the 535i a reflash and it will be as fast or faster than a 550i. Even if the reflash would cost 1500 bucks, it would still be much cheaper to buy a 535i and reflash it than it would be to buy a 550i.

THis is what I am saying, the 535i reflash would cut into 550i sales.
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      04-22-2007, 10:08 AM   #116
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With Hartge & Alpina both offering reprogrammed ECUs, you know BMW AG engineers are involved. The big Q is the business end, will BMW take on support of aftermarket products, and if so, under what guise? The Dinan marriage looks like its suffering from the seven-year itch. Hartge and Alpina are hopelessly Euro (and too expensive). Hartge and Alpina are big packages, with improvements in braking and suspension to handle the increased power. Personally, if I were spending that much $ on a car, I would opt for the M3.
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      04-22-2007, 10:15 AM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epiphone3 View Post
I was actually referring to 535i vs. 550i and not 335i. Give the 535i a reflash and it will be as fast or faster than a 550i. Even if the reflash would cost 1500 bucks, it would still be much cheaper to buy a 535i and reflash it than it would be to buy a 550i.

THis is what I am saying, the 535i reflash would cut into 550i sales.
I don't think 5-series buyers have those priorities. They are not boy-racers. So I don't think reflashed twin-turbos pose much threat to V-8 sales. Moreover, although competition within the BMW line-up is constantly mentioned in these contexts, the real competition is with Audi, MB, Lexus, Infinity... If you capture a few more sales of the E60 that would have gone to the Infinity M-45 (or whatever they call it now...) with a flashed 535, that's smart business. Norbert is big on providing lotd of options. Which is great for enthusiasts.
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      04-22-2007, 10:46 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by stressdoc View Post
The big Q is the business end, will BMW take on support of aftermarket products, and if so, under what guise?
OK, why would BMW assume more risk? Ensuring reliability of aftermarket components and their safe operation on the car is the responsbility of the aftermarket product developer/integrator. For that industry, that R&D and quality control work is a big part of the value added! Otherwise BMW would offer it themselves through their own dealers.

I think the BMW ECU-flash HP upgrade would be a great idea. It's obviously trivial get a certain HP increase out of the N54. If the tuners have to work harder for the true value that they can offer, then so be it.

I wonder if the rumored BMW HP upgrade would still provide the same gas mileage?
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      04-22-2007, 11:16 AM   #119
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Please keep in mind that the Alpina B3 is not just a simple ECU flash. It uses lower CR pistons and 15-16 Psi of boost to achieve its output. I don't see BMW changing out pistons for a 'performance' package.
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      04-22-2007, 11:30 AM   #120
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Please keep in mind that the Alpina B3 is not just a simple ECU flash. It uses lower CR pistons and 15-16 Psi of boost to achieve its output. I don't see BMW changing out pistons for a 'performance' package.
Yes, we know. But isn't it already apparent from these threads that the same engine performance (HP/torque) is available w/out changing things like engine parts and exhaust?
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      04-22-2007, 11:39 AM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenmaster View Post
Yes, we know. But isn't it already apparent from these threads that the same engine performance (HP/torque) is available w/out changing things like engine parts and exhaust?
Sure, but doesn't mean that BMW will do it. Just pointing out for comparisons sake, that the Alpina approach was different.

As for Hartge, their ECU upgrade increases 34BHP, which would be more realistic if BMW were to offer a factory performance upgrade.
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      04-22-2007, 12:26 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catm3 View Post
Sure, but doesn't mean that BMW will do it. Just pointing out for comparisons sake, that the Alpina approach was different.

As for Hartge, their ECU upgrade increases 34BHP, which would be more realistic if BMW were to offer a factory performance upgrade.
If BMW does offer a factory or dealer performance-upgrade option (i.e. as simple ECU firmware flash) the amount of increase would be telling as far as what risk they feel comfortable assuming. Presumably, BMW knows the margins better than anyone.

Yes the Alpina approach is a comprehensive modification. Their 335i is 40K pounds, or $80K. Personally, I feel the stock 335i's suspension, tranny and brakes are good enough to keep up with the Alpina B3's very conservative 10% extra HP! That $40K difference over BMW's stock retail price could be used towards your own insurance policy, for example. It could also be making 10%/year to help cover all repair work not covered under a voided warranty.
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      04-22-2007, 01:34 PM   #123
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anyone think rumour might be to soley spoil aftermarket market until a facelift comes out, perhaps with those numbers actually out of the factory?
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      04-22-2007, 01:54 PM   #124
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anyone think rumour might be to soley spoil aftermarket market until a facelift comes out, perhaps with those numbers actually out of the factory?
This presupposes that BMW corporate is the source of the rumor. Do they have a history of doing this through these channels? Also begs the question of where these guy's dealer's friends actually got the information themselves? Looks like no one bothered to ask. Seems kinda sketchy - first 90HP, then 60HP..c'mon now..
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      04-22-2007, 02:25 PM   #125
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haha sorry i had to laugh.
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      04-22-2007, 07:16 PM   #126
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Oh god. The conspiracy theorists have landed.
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      04-22-2007, 07:29 PM   #127
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Oh god. The conspiracy theorists have landed.
Jorge Blanco...is that you???
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      04-24-2007, 12:02 AM   #128
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Jorge Blanco...is that you???
lol, hey alex.

Threw me off for a second.
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      04-24-2007, 12:42 AM   #129
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lol, hey alex.

Threw me off for a second.
How you been man? Nice new ride.

I too sold my E46. Too bad you didn't see it as it ended... turned out beautiful.
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      04-24-2007, 12:48 AM   #130
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How you been man? Nice new ride.

I too sold my E46. Too bad you didn't see it as it ended... turned out beautiful.
Good, good, dude. And thank you!

The 335 is sick though, dude, hope you're enjoying it!
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      04-24-2007, 10:56 AM   #131
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That was a few months before I sold her...
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      04-24-2007, 01:33 PM   #132
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