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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > *Wastegate Ticking Noise Found*



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      04-05-2008, 10:49 PM   #1
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*Wastegate Ticking Noise Found*

***EDIT #3***

I drove around for a couple days with no sound, and then it came back again. The shim that I put in the space fell out while I was driving.
I took my car to my friend's shop because we truly wanted to get to the bottom of this.

I took my DPs off the car so I could see a little bit better with what exactly was going on.

We took the vacuum line off the rear actuator and connected a hand pump to it.
We activated the actuator (with the hand pump) closing the wastegate until the actuator couldn't move any further.
At the maximum closing capacity of the actuator, the wastegate was still opem a little bit and the wastegate could be easily moved by the hand.
This is the "ticking" sound that we are hearing because the wastegate is banging up against the seal.
It turned out that BMW is correct with their fix.

It turns out that the temporary fix that I came up with helped prevent the wastegate from moving while it was in the closed position, but it should not be done for a permanent fix whatsoever.

BMW claims that there is no loss of power while the ticking noise is present, but I disagree with this.
I agree that there is no loss of power under full boost, since the boost will help keep the wastegate closed but I believe that under part throttle there is a loss of some power. Since the wastegate isn't closing properly then the amount of lag will increase with a leaking wastegate since there will be some leakage before the system builds boost, therefore creating more of a lag.

I personally recommend that you get this taken care of at the dealer.


**EDIT #2**

The temporary fix is on page 7, post number 142, and 145.

*EDIT*

I found that the reason for the ticking is due to the rear wastegate coming loose.

I am trying to find the reason with why the wastegates are loosening without bringing my car to the dealer.
To those who think that I am wasting my time or those who are wondering why I would spend all this time, well--I really enjoy problem solving.
This is a hobby.
Hopefully I could find an ultimate solution instead of a band aid like adding a washer to prevent the vibration.

This is NOT due to DPs.
People that have OEM DPs are having the same issue!


First of all, Thank you so much to cbad335!

I'm pretty sure that I found the problem to the wastegate ticking noises.
Now, I just need your advice and opinions on what to do with finding a solution.

Also, What would be really great is for everyone out there including people that are not experiencing the ticking noises to see if they also have slack in this line. Please check to see if this rod is loose. I'll bet you anything that it's not.
Please check to see if there is anything that I am missing.
Do you have something in the space that I don't?

After reading this post from cbad335:

I was told by a dealership mechanic last week that BMW has recently come up with a fix for this problem that will be available soon. The mechanic told me that the ticking is a small metal rod in the waste gate that loosens w/ it's connecting part, producing the rattle. He went on to say, as Mr. 5 stated, that there is no performance loss or damage to the engine, just a horrible ticking sound. Previously, the only way to fix this problem was to replace the entire turbo, which BMW is unwilling to do now. I was told that if the rattling sound I was having turned out to be the ticking waste gate issue, I would be sent home w/ my car until the "fix" was available, at which time they would call me to schedule the repair. Fortunately for me, my rattling sound was a connection to the retrofitted oil cooler hoses that needed to be placed at a different angle; it was vibrating against another part.

I took a couple vids.
The first one is to show you how loose my connecting rod was.

I then took a vid to show you how the sound got a bit quieter when I put pressure on the rod. Just before I turn off the camera, you can hear it getting louder. Unfortunately, I didn't have anyone to rev up the engine while I was putting pressure on it, but I don't know if that would have been that safe anyway since the engine shifts around and i wouldn't want my arm to get smushed.

Anyway, solutions are welcome. Of course, filling up the gap is one idea but lets' talk about what kind of slack is needed? Polyuerathane spacers or something? I don't know. Let's come up with some ideas.

I've attached pics with where exactly it's loose.






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      04-05-2008, 11:36 PM   #2
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Yea that would be the same symptoms as others.
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      04-05-2008, 11:43 PM   #3
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You're welcome Mr. 5. I wasn't given the specifics of BMW's exact "fix" for this problem, and I'm not sure the mechanic new yet either. He had just been informed that a fix had been devised, and would be available in the near future. You may be right, and it's just some type of simple retrofit, like a spacer or washer of some kind. I would think BMW wants to find a parsimonious solution for a problem that may occur in many N54 engines. They certainly aren't going to replace everyone's turbo, only to have the problem reoccur in the new turbo unit.
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      04-05-2008, 11:50 PM   #4
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This was the same ticking sound AU335 had, right? I'm glad to hear that the solution is not that complicated and damaging to the engine.

Mr. 5-I think the easiest solution would to put a spacer in there, like you stated. I'm pretty sure you can pick up a rubber spacer at a local Home Depot or Lowes for under $1.
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      04-05-2008, 11:52 PM   #5
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yep, nice job! its amazing that something so simple can cause so many problems
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      04-05-2008, 11:53 PM   #6
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Mr. 5, im going to look at my car tomorrow, but what am i looking for (also specifically where?)
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      04-05-2008, 11:56 PM   #7
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Phew, this is great news since everyone was in a panic about replacing their turbos.

Nice work guys!
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      04-06-2008, 01:32 AM   #8
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put a rubber washer in between the gap so you can still put pressure on it while installing the c-clip on the wastegate arm.that should do the job,im talking about the hard rubber washer though not the soft one and try home depot.
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      04-06-2008, 02:46 AM   #9
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damn... thanks A LOT mr. 5!
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      04-06-2008, 05:54 AM   #10
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Damn that is loud! Could definitely tell a difference when you applied pressure. Great find though. Hopefully a simple fix will present itself.
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      04-06-2008, 06:43 AM   #11
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are you sure rubber or polyeurothane won't melt from the heat? maybe you should consider a high tempurature gasket of sorts...

BTW... does the turbo say " YO " on it? LOL
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      04-06-2008, 07:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AU335 View Post
Mr. 5, im going to look at my car tomorrow, but what am i looking for (also specifically where?)
Yeah,..I dont quite understand where exactly this is coming from. I heard it in the vids but I wasn't able to make out what you were doing or pointing to. I saw the pic but I don't get where that pic is in relation to everything else.
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      04-06-2008, 09:23 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiXst3r View Post
are you sure rubber or polyeurothane won't melt from the heat? maybe you should consider a high tempurature gasket of sorts...

BTW... does the turbo say " YO " on it? LOL
This is one of the reasons why I said poly instead of rubber.
I think Poly has a higher heat threashold when compare to rubber.

I didn't notice the YO until you mentioned it.
Pretty funny.
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      04-06-2008, 09:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AU335 View Post
Mr. 5, im going to look at my car tomorrow, but what am i looking for (also specifically where?)
Open up your hood, and it's on the left side of the engine.
I posted pics so you can see better where.
Use a flashlight so you can see better.
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      04-06-2008, 09:41 AM   #15
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Nice find! At least now you can work on a solution without having to deal with the idiots at the dealership that would have told you that your boost gauge cooked your turbo.

I would also assume that that rod would get pretty hot since its sitting right next to the hotside of your turbo so I'm not sure what kind of spacer you can use that would stop the vibration without it melting. hmmm....
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      04-06-2008, 11:26 AM   #16
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It would be cool to put in a rubber washer and see what the difference would be.
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      04-06-2008, 11:27 AM   #17
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Great info, thanks Mr. 5
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      04-06-2008, 11:32 AM   #18
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Please guys,
Check to see if yours is lose too.
Let us know if you have the ticking noise or not.

Thanks!
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      04-06-2008, 11:33 AM   #19
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Poly is better at high temp, silicone would be good too but hard to find.

The best would be metal, the temp. in that area would be really high. What elastomer is used in the wastegate actuators?
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      04-06-2008, 12:31 PM   #20
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I have my car in for service for this issue and this is what my SA told me. They are going to look inside the turbo. If the bushings on the flap are worn out or damaged, I'm gonna need a new turbo. If they are not, he's gonna get the actuators fixed which in turn will fix the tickling sound. I hope they dont replace the turbos.. its gonna take foreverrrr for them to come in, since no one has spare turbos laying around.
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      04-06-2008, 12:32 PM   #21
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I have PM'd Sam at AutoTalent to see if he could check the wastegate rods since the turbos are already off the car.
I know that this thread was posted a while back but I'm thinking that the turbos are still off the car.

Here's the thread he started about the turbos coming off:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...+turbos+engine

I just wish I had these in front of me so I could see what's going on up close instead of reaching down in the engine compartment.

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      04-06-2008, 12:35 PM   #22
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nice thnks for the great info this makes me feel a lot loss worried about the issue
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