[E93MAC]

My experience with Terry & Jason at Burger Tuning (BMS) has been been absolutely terrible.

Maybe it's because my paddle retrofit kit that I purchased from them for $150. Doesn't generate that much of their business as much as their tuning kits do? Who knows. I have followed the customer service related issues people have had with their tuning kits and the owner Terry does his best to please them, the fact that, that many people actually have an issue to begin with is pretty bad, but why would he help them and not me? Just because I didn't order their tuning kit? Which is probably their bread and butter? I still ordered a product that their company makes!

All I know is I just had to pay labor twice on a faulty part of theirs and waste a bunch of my time.

When I emailed Jason and Terry to see what they could do they took a defensive stance right from the start. Saying "oh no it can't possibly be our cable. All our cables are tested before they go out. Every single one!" Well if they are all tested how do you explain the first one not working and the second one (replacement) working?

If you guys do want to read this long post go ahead, I'm just here to warn others. I will never do business with Burger Tuning or recommend them to anyone.

Here is our email chain, I will post it in multiple posts so it's easier to read and follow:
__________________

[E93MAC]

Hello Terry,

My name is Mac ****** and I ordered a paddle retrofit harness from BurgerTuning for my vehicle.

When I received the harness I scheduled an appointment with Sonic Motorsport in the Bay Area, to conduct the installation.

When Sonic Motorsport installed the harness, I was told that the female plug from BurgerTuning's harness was hard to plug into my clockspring and it should just slide in and lock and that the paddleshift was not functioning properly. When I down shifted the turn signal to turn right came on. And my turn signal to turn right would not function at all unless I down shifted.

I sent an email to BurgerTuning and informed them of the situation.

Jason from BurgerTuning responded and informed me that all harnesses are tested to make sure they function prior to leaving your facility. I then asked if I could have a replacement harness sent out to me, to check, he then informed me again that all cables are checked but he reluctantly sent out a replacement. To which I thanked him and then waited for the cable to arrive.

I received the cable last week and scheduled a follow up appointment with Sonic Motorsport for Jan 7th 2014 at 12:30pm. Today.

I arrived at the shop today, handed Sonic MS the new cable and they went to re-install the new harness. As they unlocked the plug and removed your retrofit harness from my clock spring, your harness pulled out a pin on my OEM clock spring. It essentially broke my clock spring. They informed me that the harness was faulty which is one of the reasons why we had to request a replacement and that the female pin 1 connector was already faulty when the Retrofit harness was built (seeing how they had difficulty plugging the retrofit cable in on the first install). Now I understand these cables are all handmade and mistakes can happen.

They tried to pull the clockspring pin out of your harness but your harness was just not letting go of the broken pin. In the end they found a way for it to be removed and then used the new harness which Jason sent and plugged the pin in between the new harness and the clockspring which went in smoothly (but obviously this is now jury rigged).

Now that pin should be soldered to the clockspring and now it's just sitting in there. Although the new harness now is fully functional, I am still stuck with a broken clockspring that had been jury rigged to work. Also if that pin becomes lose the paddles may stop working again.

The fact that Jason stated all cables are tested, is difficult for me to accept as the first harness had issues and did not function, while the replacement harness is fully functional without issues.

So this had put me in an awkward position. My clockspring is broken and I have had to pay for another hour of labor from Sonic Motorsport that I shouldn't have had to pay for had the original harness functioned correctly.

Jason asked that I contact you Terry, to obtain a solution.

How would you like to proceed on this matter?

I do understand that mistakes do happen and I am looking to forgive Burgertuning for these issues, but I need to know what you intend to do about my situation. Since I have had to pay additional labor and an OEM part of my vehicle had been damaged due to this faulty harness.

I have attached pictures for your reference.

Here you see my Clockspring's pin which was soldered to the clockspring, stuck in the BurgerTuning retrofit harness because the harness won't let go:


Here you see the damaged female port which the pin slides into from Burgertuning which pulled the pin from my clock spring:

[E93MAC]

Hi Mac,

Sorry to hear of the headaches.

If you want to send the defective harness in I'd be happy to check it out. Although, it's not clear to me from the photos what exactly is wrong with it. If the contact is not releasing from the harness it may not have been installed straight, etc. Projects like paddle shift retrofits involve lots of moving parts and labor. The harness is just a tiny part of the overall project.

In terms of your labor I can refund $50 for you on the harness. We can't do much more than that on this.

Best,
T

[E93MAC]

I will wait for the shop to explain their end of the install but as far as I can see, this harness plugs in only one way and then you lower the grey piece to lock it in, there is no way to really install it any way, but straight on. The shop in question has installed many of your retrofit kits and is a reputable motorsport shop. I do trust them with all the installs they have conducted on my vehicle they have never had any issues.

Would you like to wait for that report to come from the shop or is the below your final solution for my issue. I want you to be clear and to the point on this matter. As it will affect my next decision.

Thank you.

[E93MAC]

Yes, that is all we can do for you on this. If the shop was familiar with installing the product then they'd know to carefully inspect any harness before installing. I'm not really sure what went wrong with your install here but retrofitting paddle shifters is labor intensive project and it's not uncommon for bits and pieces to get broken and have to be replaced in the process. That just goes with the territory.

If a pin did not insert properly in the harness then I would guess it was not aligned properly before pushing it in. Not that it matters much at his point. Just replace the contact that was broken and you should be fine.

Sorry we can't help you further on it.

Best,
T

[E93MAC]

I do not think you are understanding what needs to be replaced. The whole clockspring will need to be replaced it's not as simple as replacing the contact. The contact pin was soldered to the clock spring. How do you suggest I replace a pin that was soldered to the OEM clockspring? What I am talking about is as simple as putting a round peg in a round hole. But if the hole isn't lined up internally (the hole being your harness) the shop can't break apart your harness to check that the harness has been properly constructed can it? Otherwise it would void warranty correct?

So how are you putting saying the shop is at fault for not lining it up correctly? If they hadn't lined it up the pin would not have been in the hole. The hole did not release the pin that's the problem. Again the hole being your harness. These harnesses are built by hand as stated by your team. These harnesses claim to be tested. We have proved that isn't the case otherwise the first harness would have functioned because the replacement one did.

[E93MAC]

It sounds like you are suggesting the harness female contact was
somehow crushed during assembly. If this were the case, then it would
not fit in our test rig. Also the mechanic doing the install would
visually see there was no hole where one should be. To damage an OEM
pin like that a lot of extra force would need to be applied while
locking down the connector. Any experienced mechanic would know its
not going in smoothly as it normally does and back off to investigate
why.

In any event, when doing something as complicated as a steering wheel
retrofit great care needs to be taken. You said that Sonic has done
this before -- but they have an account with us and I did not notice
any instances of them ordering a paddle shift harness.

Ultimately we can't take responsibility for things that may and often
do go wrong during the installation of these types of retrofit kits.
If you are unhappy with the harness though you are welcome to return
it for a refund. Sorry we can't do more for you on it. But an
experienced installer would never have let this happen.

http://www.burgertuning.com/terms.html


Best,
T

[E93MAC]

No that isn't what I am suggesting. The harness has a black plastic plug correct? With pin holes inside. The pin hole the actual metal part that the pin goes into which is covered by the plastic (so you can't see it) was the hole that wasn't manufactured correctly. Hence my issue.

The shop would not be able to see this. And the shop cannot open your cable up as that would void the cable warranty.

If you would like to call me I can explain it to you.

[E93MAC]

So I did not receive a reply back yet. But I do not think they will assist me further.

So I am out:

2nd Install - $150
Clockspring - $100

Plus the extra time I had to take off of work to get this fixed.

Let's not even count my time. I lost $250 for a faulty harness! Burger thinks $50 is going to make this all better. If any member has even seen these plugs or OEM plugs, they fit in straight, but response after response they are blaming a shop that has worked on my car multiple times as well as my friends cars, and we have never had issues. They mainly deal with exotics so you know they have to pay attention to detail. This isn't a mechanic shop this is a high end, high caliber motorsports shop.

The fact that Terry can not even consider that he may have a bad harness or even concede to the fact that obviously the first harness was not checked (if they do in fact check every harness that leaves their facility) is absolutely ridiculous.

People make mistakes, I'm fine with that. But those that do not own up to their mistakes thats not a person I want to do business with.

If you all could just come and see what I'm talking about, you would all see that this is absolutely ridiculous. There is no way to mess up plugging a cable into a plug straight on. Given the two cables we are talking about....

Rant Over!

[E93MAC]

I'm expecting Burger Fans to flame me, sure. I'm just giving you my honest opinion with all the fact laid out. Take it for what you will or choose to ignore it.

Completely up to you.

[E93MAC]

Terry's reply

There is a plastic subconnector and then female contacts that are
inserted in to the subconnector.
As you can see in your photos above by looking at the top you can
clearly see inside the contact.
If one was pinched off it would be visually obvious.

It's certainly possible the contact was over-crimped and somehow
pinched off although it's unlikely as we test fit them on a harness
tester.
It seems more likely to me the installer inadvertently bent a pin
while disassembling/reassembling the connector. Which can happen if
they
attempt to lock the connector in without the subconnector being fully
seated, pull it out at the wrong angle, etc. If the male pin is not
perfectly
vertical when reinstall then it can dig in to the side of the female
contact which appears to be the case here.

In any event, whether the harness was defective, or the installer bent
the OEM pin, the damage was done when they forced the harness
connector in.
As soon as they noticed the harness was "hard to plug in" that's when
an experienced installer would stop and investigate what the issue
was, reach
out for BMS technical support, etc. Forcing the connector in did the
damage IMHO.

Fortunately I think it should be easy to resolve without having to
purchase a new OEM part. They will have to pull the circuit board out
and
solder a wire to it, and then connect that wire back to the harness.
That would be my suggestion anyway for fixing the damage anyway.

[E93MAC]

My Reply

I think it's abundantly clear to me that Burger Tuning is putting the complete blame on the installer. In every email you have sent in no way shape or form have you ever even entertained the fact that it could be a manufacturing issue on your end. Not even in the slightest.

I understand that your tuning kits are your primary product. Maybe you just don't have that much demand on your retrofit paddles or maybe you do, I don't know.

But it doesn't seem like you are willing to even entertain that it could have been an issue on your end. Actually seeing the cable in person and looking at the situation in front of you it is clear to see it was a faulty harness. But you can't make the assessment you have made without being here and seeing what I am seeing.

All in all it seems burger is unwilling to assist.

This will be my last email on this as it isn't doing anything other than wasting my time. And your product has done enough of that today already.

Good luck to you sir. I mean that. Hopefully you will show better customer service to your future customers than you have shown me.

[E93MAC]

And that's it for this thread. Unless any new drama unfolds.
Hope not

[E93MAC]

I really didn't like the fact that they want me to jury rig a clockspring. That's kinda shady. I don't think I should be soldering a pin back to an OEM clockspring and expect everything to function properly.

The part needs to be replaced!

[whats77inaname]

Kinda jacked, IMO. I can *def* see where you're ticked. I hope they step up and do what's right, although I doubt they will :-\

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Just read the thread. In your first sentense you state what really went wrong here:

"When Sonic Motorsport installed the harness, I was told that the female plug from BurgerTuning's harness was hard to plug into my clockspring and it should just slide in and lock and that the paddleshift was not functioning properly."

Your mechanic forced a connector in to something that was not lined up properly and broke it. Plain and simple. Anyone who has done this complicated retrofit before would know that
delicate electronic connectors should fit smoothly together. If it is not sliding in smoothly something is wrong and ABORT the install to find out what the issue is. Instead they forced it together and ultimately broke something. And now you want BMS to pay for their damage. I don't see how that is reasonable.

It sounds like BMS sent you a new replacement harness just in case the original was defective, which does not appear to be the case, they offered you $50 as a courtesy, appear to be engaged with you in helping resolve the issue, etc. Your mechanic should kick in the labor for free since he broke it in the first place. So you are out $100 for his damage and BMS is paying for half of that as a customer courtesy. Again this seems reasonable to me, no?

Mike

[deadmn1337]

Sounds like you need to step back and cool down, then go back and reread the emails. Terry said it was possible that the harness was damaged when made but should have been spotted by the installer. The installer is the one that broke the OEM piece by forcing something to fit when it didn't.

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Just read the thread. In your first sentense you state what really went wrong here:

"When Sonic Motorsport installed the harness, I was told that the female plug from BurgerTuning's harness was hard to plug into my clockspring and it should just slide in and lock and that the paddleshift was not functioning properly."

Your mechanic forced a connector in to something that was not lined up properly and broke it. Plain and simple. Anyone who has done this complicated retrofit before would know that
delicate electronic connectors should fit smoothly together. If it is not sliding in smoothly something is wrong and ABORT the install to find out what the issue is. Instead they forced it together and ultimately broke something. And now you want BMS to pay for their damage. I don't see how that is reasonable.

It sounds like BMS sent you a new replacement harness just in case the original was defective, which does not appear to be the case, they offered you $50 as a courtesy, appear to be engaged with you in helping resolve the issue, etc. Your mechanic should kick in the labor for free since he broke it in the first place. So you are out $100 for his damage and BMS is paying for half of that as a customer courtesy. Again this seems reasonable to me, no?

Mike

I'll give you that and I am willing to concede. BUT, Burger didn't even want to "inspect" the issue. I had to write Jason several emails for him to even consider sending me a replacement. Do you want to see the thread? I can certainly post it here. They became defensive right from the get go. And recently when I pointed out the fact that they could not even consider that the harness was bad they added insult to injury by saying I am closed minded and being melodramatic. Would N54Tuning insult a customer in such a manner? I doubt that you would. So instead of even saying "Ship the part back we will look at it and see if it actually was the harness" they said no we inspect every part that leaves our facility. It's not our harness. How can they say that when they aren't even here looking at it?

Do you actually get why I am upset? They think they are infallible. Where as the shop showed me exactly what they did and explained the issue. Terry didn't even want to consider his part was defective. Why did the second one work fine when the first one did not?

I would also say that your opinion is biased especially if you sell BMS products.

But I am completely willing to concede if they looked at the bigger picture.
If in the beginning they had said:

"Sorry you had the issue, send back the harness and we will inspect it, and then contact the shop to see where the issue actually occurred" THAT would be customer service. Instead of dragging the customer through a long process. The shop and the vendor could have worked it out and then come to an agreement. The shop was willing to do that. Now if someone says that's not the way the industry works, well then you are part of the reason why this type of service isn't given. You are advocating that "oh that's just the way it is, so tough luck" again. Not good customer service.

Either way, its done. I'm done. If people want to reply it will just drag this out further.

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by deadmn1337

Sounds like you need to step back and cool down, then go back and reread the emails. Terry said it was possible that the harness was damaged when made but should have been spotted by the installer. The installer is the one that broke the OEM piece by forcing something to fit when it didn't.

Oh I definitely need to take a step back and cool down. Completely agree with you.

But they stated that later on, that it could possibly be the harness, when I had been going back and forth with Jason and Terry. In the beginning and on the phone they said it was not their product at fault. That all products are test fitted. So you wound the customer up and only THEN decided, "oh maybe it was bad"

[E93MAC]

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

Kinda jacked, IMO. I can *def* see where you're ticked. I hope they step up and do what's right, although I doubt they will :-\

Yeah unfortunately they wont. That door is now closed on me. Since they insulted me on top of it all.

Again if they had handled it properly everything would have been fine. You don't even need to pay for the clockspring or my 2nd labor. At least work with the shop to see where the issue occurred you know? They weren't here, yet they are making judgment calls over the phone and via email.

They haven't even seen the cable yet or inspected it! They haven't looked at the car or the clockspring!

But they are quick to point the blame away from themselves.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by deadmn1337

Sounds like you need to step back and cool down, then go back and reread the emails. Terry said it was possible that the harness was damaged when made but should have been spotted by the installer. The installer is the one that broke the OEM piece by forcing something to fit when it didn't.

This all seems really blown out of proportion to me for a $150 patch harness. As BMS said this paddle retrofit kits are delicate and stuff sometimes breaks. Be it plastic connectors, clips, or in this extreme case an electrical contact. The OEM contact was soldered on so I don't see why they can't just solder a wire to it. Although $100 is pretty cheap for an OEM so replacing it is probably not a bad idea.

Since this guy has been posting BMS' emails I just asked them for the email chain to read through it myself. Also the email chain from Jason @ BMS. Hopefully he posts everything as it's clear from the emails they've been attempting to help him all along and OP is just angling for someone to pay for his damages. He is not at all concerned Sonic gave him his car back with a faulty install that may have resulted in a serious injury. Jason @ BMS literally begs him to send back the OEM harness so they can inspect it and he pretends like BMS didn't even ask for it back. He just wants the $250.

If he was more polite I'm sure BMS would meet him in the middle at $125 just to make him happy. OP should I try to discuss that option with BMS, or am I just wasting my time here trying to mediate this?

Mike

[deadmn1337]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

This all seems really blown out of proportion to me for a $150 patch harness. As BMS said this paddle retrofit kits are delicate and stuff sometimes breaks. Be it plastic connectors, clips, or in this extreme case an electrical contact. The OEM contact was soldered on so I don't see why they can't just solder a wire to it. Although $100 is pretty cheap for an OEM so replacing it is probably not a bad idea.

Since this guy has been posting BMS' emails I just asked them for the email chain to read through it myself. Also the email chain from Jason @ BMS. Hopefully he posts everything as it's clear from the emails they've been attempting to help him all along and OP is just angling for someone to pay for his damages. He is not at all concerned Sonic gave him his car back with a faulty install that may have resulted in a serious injury. Jason @ BMS literally begs him to send back the OEM harness so they can inspect it and he pretends like BMS didn't even ask for it back. He just wants the $250.

If he was more polite I'm sure BMS would meet him in the middle at $125 just to make him happy. OP should I try to discuss that option with BMS, or am I just wasting my time here trying to mediate this?

Mike

This seems more like the situation that what the op posted. Thanks for setting everything straight.

OP you need to either post everything or just drop it cause you have blown this out of portion at this point and no one is going to side with you.