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      11-13-2016, 01:13 PM   #1
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what can i do to make it handle better?

I want the car to handle like it is on rails, but do not want to lose street comfort too much.

What can I do to make it more direct and fun?
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      11-13-2016, 01:17 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by W37V View Post
I want the car to handle like it is on rails, but do not want to lose street comfort too much.

What can I do to make it more direct and fun?
Second gen BMW PS or equivalent is about as far as you can go before really losing any sense of "comfort" but of course it depends on what you mean by comfort. Handling like it's on rails simply means you're not pushing it hard enough cuz nothing handles like it's on rails. But the PS gets pretty close if you're not pushing it hard on the street, compared to on the track which has a completely different meaning.
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      11-13-2016, 02:49 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by W37V View Post
I want the car to handle like it is on rails, but do not want to lose street comfort too much.

What can I do to make it more direct and fun?
1) Install bilstein B12 pro kit
2) install M3 control arms both front & back
3) install new tie rods
4) install new sway bar links both front & back
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      11-13-2016, 03:30 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by mweisdorfer View Post
1) Install bilstein B12 pro kit
2) install M3 control arms both front & back
3) install new tie rods
4) install new sway bar links both front & back
Rear M3 links are no different from stamped steel OEM parts except for their failure mechanism. Same bearing and bushing, same flex, no difference unless there's so much torque so often the extra fatigue life is valuable. Won't make any difference at all, already made that mistake myself and replaced them with adjustable ballend parts from BimmerWorld. And I don't recommend them for the street, or at all actually unless they're going on a track car.

M3 front control arms will help tighten up steering response with the downside of increasing a sense of harshness felt through the steering wheel. Worth doing but really only if going to camber plates to get rid of the soft upper strut mount that deflects enough to reduce the potential improvement of the control arms.

Tie rod ends will make zero difference unless worn but that's pretty noticeable, I think.

ARB endlinks don't really make any difference as long as they're not physically broken.
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      11-13-2016, 04:13 PM   #5
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Coilovers, m3 front control arms, stiff subframe bushings, non run flat tires, m3 front strut brace.
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      11-13-2016, 04:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Coilovers, m3 front control arms, stiff subframe bushings, non run flat tires, m3 front strut brace.
^^ This

I'd add camber plates and trailing link spherical bearings if it's a 335i.
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      11-13-2016, 04:53 PM   #7
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If you are not into replacing everything and going all out like certain other members(ahem justpete), I would start simple with strut/shock upgrades and sway bars.

Doing suspension a la carte might not be the most effective or economical, but if you don't want to fork out a ton of cash right away it is a great way to improve the handling and learn how different components impact handling.

Wheels and tires can make a huge difference. I would be inclined to do suspension mods first.

My suspension mods are bils hd's with oem sport springs, m3 front arms, sways front and rear, m3 sub bushings, shock mounts and front drop hats. It absolutely transformed the way my car went around corners. For a street canyon carver it is a perfect balance.

Adding just a front bar will sharpen turn in and will improve low(er) load handling, but I found the balance towards understeer too much. Keep in mind I have a staggered set up.
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      11-13-2016, 05:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by avocet View Post
If you are not into replacing everything and going all out like certain other members(ahem justpete), I would start simple with strut/shock upgrades and sway bars.

Doing suspension a la carte might not be the most effective or economical, but if you don't want to fork out a ton of cash right away it is a great way to improve the handling and learn how different components impact handling.

Wheels and tires can make a huge difference. I would be inclined to do suspension mods first.

My suspension mods are bils hd's with oem sport springs, m3 front arms, sways front and rear, m3 sub bushings, shock mounts and front drop hats. It absolutely transformed the way my car went around corners. For a street canyon carver it is a perfect balance.

Adding just a front bar will sharpen turn in and will improve low(er) load handling, but I found the balance towards understeer too much. Keep in mind I have a staggered set up.
haha Oh wait...never mind...
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      11-13-2016, 11:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Second gen BMW PS or equivalent is about as far as you can go before really losing any sense of "comfort" but of course it depends on what you mean by comfort. Handling like it's on rails simply means you're not pushing it hard enough cuz nothing handles like it's on rails. But the PS gets pretty close if you're not pushing it hard on the street, compared to on the track which has a completely different meaning.
Including their shocks or just springs? I just got Bilstein B6 on all 4 corners.
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      11-13-2016, 11:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avocet View Post
If you are not into replacing everything and going all out like certain other members(ahem justpete), I would start simple with strut/shock upgrades and sway bars.

Doing suspension a la carte might not be the most effective or economical, but if you don't want to fork out a ton of cash right away it is a great way to improve the handling and learn how different components impact handling.

Wheels and tires can make a huge difference. I would be inclined to do suspension mods first.

My suspension mods are bils hd's with oem sport springs, m3 front arms, sways front and rear, m3 sub bushings, shock mounts and front drop hats. It absolutely transformed the way my car went around corners. For a street canyon carver it is a perfect balance.

Adding just a front bar will sharpen turn in and will improve low(er) load handling, but I found the balance towards understeer too much. Keep in mind I have a staggered set up.
I got run-flat tires (Michelin AS3), Bilstein b6 on all 4 and Monore bushing on the rear. I just love this set up, especially Bilsteins. Way better than stock. But, having Bilsteins on, made me question, what else can I do (what am i missing)?

I think I will get m3 front arms and sway bars.
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      11-14-2016, 12:10 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W37V View Post
Including their shocks or just springs? I just got Bilstein B6 on all 4 corners.
I only ran the full PS, couldn't tell you anything about mix and match alternatives.
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      11-14-2016, 12:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W37V View Post
I got run-flat tires (Michelin AS3), Bilstein b6 on all 4 and Monore bushing on the rear. I just love this set up, especially Bilsteins. Way better than stock. But, having Bilsteins on, made me question, what else can I do (what am i missing)?

I think I will get m3 front arms and sway bars.
Is that the Monroe upper rear shock mount?
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      11-14-2016, 09:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W37V View Post
I got run-flat tires (Michelin AS3), Bilstein b6 on all 4 and Monore bushing on the rear. I just love this set up, especially Bilsteins. Way better than stock. But, having Bilsteins on, made me question, what else can I do (what am i missing)?

I think I will get m3 front arms and sway bars.
Front arms yes. Sway no. Sway are last mod u make to correct under or oversteer. Most times they will cut leaning, but will also loose traction and induce under or over steering. To improve from where you are, do in this order to improve
Non run flat tires, preferably Michelin Pilot Super Sport or stickier
M3 front control arms
M3 strut brace
Dial in camber if you prefer and camber plater and rear camber arms as needed
Subframe bushings, 95m or solid billet
LSD
Sways, probably m3 e93.

Tires you listed are what I run on my mother in-laws 120 hp ford focus sedan. You won't get real traction without real tires. #1 think to do is loose run flats. If you live in a northern area, keep these for your winter set when temps are below 40F and get a dedicated wheel/tire setup for warmer months. Lightweight wheels like apex and sticky tires as wide as will fit. 245 square or 245 front, 265 or 275 rear.

Just doing the tires may be more than enough to reach your goal. The others will keep increasing grip till you get scared. Then you're good. If you do above and still want more, you're past my advice and you'll need justpete or hp sports harold to give you more advice.
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      11-14-2016, 10:49 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justpete View Post
Is that the Monroe upper rear shock mount?
Yes. It completely transformed the rear end. No more bounciness. Rear is now grounded to the ground
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      11-14-2016, 11:15 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by W37V View Post
Yes. It completely transformed the rear end. No more bounciness. Rear is now grounded to the ground
Good to hear. This is the same effect the PS achieves with a very similar upper rear shock mount. And I've kept that part in place as the suspension has been upgraded. No need to go to any polyurethane equivalent.
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      11-14-2016, 12:18 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Front arms yes. Sway no. Sway are last mod u make to correct under or oversteer. Most times they will cut leaning, but will also loose traction and induce under or over steering. To improve from where you are, do in this order to improve
Non run flat tires, preferably Michelin Pilot Super Sport or stickier
M3 front control arms
M3 strut brace
Dial in camber if you prefer and camber plater and rear camber arms as needed
Subframe bushings, 95m or solid billet
LSD
Sways, probably m3 e93.

Tires you listed are what I run on my mother in-laws 120 hp ford focus sedan. You won't get real traction without real tires. #1 think to do is loose run flats. If you live in a northern area, keep these for your winter set when temps are below 40F and get a dedicated wheel/tire setup for warmer months. Lightweight wheels like apex and sticky tires as wide as will fit. 245 square or 245 front, 265 or 275 rear.

Just doing the tires may be more than enough to reach your goal. The others will keep increasing grip till you get scared. Then you're good. If you do above and still want more, you're past my advice and you'll need justpete or hp sports harold to give you more advice.
I don't have a garage to keep the second set, so I had to find a compromise for DC weather. IMO, these were the best all season tires that are available on the market.

So far, it seems like m3 front is it.
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      11-14-2016, 01:01 PM   #17
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Yeah that makes it tough. Dc does get snow. Guess its your best option unless you can use moms garage or a spare closet. Use this set for now but get non rft next time. Even if you can grt a second set, wait tll march.
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      11-14-2016, 02:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Yeah that makes it tough. Dc does get snow. Guess its your best option unless you can use moms garage or a spare closet. Use this set for now but get non rft next time. Even if you can grt a second set, wait tll march.
Whose mom's garage am I supposed to use? Mine? That's impossible.

Dude, Michelin AS3 are run flat tires.
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      11-14-2016, 02:37 PM   #19
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Whose mom's garage am I supposed to use? Mine? That's impossible.

Dude, Michelin AS3 are run flat tires.
They make AS3 in run flat and non run flat. Swap to non run flat.
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      11-14-2016, 02:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
They make AS3 in run flat and non run flat. Swap to non run flat.
Damn it. Damn terminology had me confused.

I meant NON run flat - they go flat. AS3 only come as NON run tires and I already have tires that are NON run flat. - As in, I pray that I have cell service when I get a flat to call for a tow as I don't have a spare tire.
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      11-14-2016, 05:59 PM   #21
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Ok lol. I see a run flat version on tirerack so both are available but you have the right ones.
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      11-14-2016, 11:00 PM   #22
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I recently added the M3 front sway and could tell an immediate difference. I have the M3 front arms and whiteline rear subframe inserts waiting to install. I decided not to do the rear sway until I get all of these installed and see how I like it because the rear sway is a pain to install. Truthfully if I think I still need more control then I will do the rear sway and change out the rear subframe bushings at once since I will have it dropped anyways. The inserts are $50 so no real loss in trying them.
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