Top 3 DIY "bang for your buck" Logic7 System Upgrades

kaigoss69 · 08-16-2010, 07:40 PM

IMO, and based on my experience:

#1: Add a tweeter to the center channel.

This does wonders for improving the imaging of the L7 system. Before, voices were located close to the left tweeter pod, and after they are very close to dead center, almost head-high. This also adds some "crispness" to the front stage. Highly recommended.

Cost: $0 - $90
Installation time: 1-2 hours
Difficulty: 2 (1-9)
Pics:

L7 tweeter with in-line crossover and plug-in connector

Tweeter plugs right into midrange

Tweeter mounted using high-tech bracket made from tin cookie box

Gorilla glue is awesome

Make sure the tweeter is mounted such that the surface does not touch the grille.

Note: If you want, you can "borrow" the tweeter from the rear deck (only in a sedan). Unless you like to fade to the rear of the car, you will likely not notice the difference with or without the tweeter back there.

#2: Amplifying the underseat woofers.

Basically, the OEM amp does not put out enough power for these to play to their full potential. Yes, they are OEM drivers and have their limitations, but they happen to be well-built, are optimized for the enclosures they're in, and do sound quite good with added "responsible" power. Notice to bass-heads: this upgrade is not for you!!! This will not shake the hell out of the car, make your system be heard for 5 blocks, or even make your rear-view mirror shake - it just allows the OEM "woofers" to keep up with the rest of the system.

Cost: $100 - $300
Installation time: 1-3 hours
Difficulty: 3 (1-9)

I originally did this the simplest way possible: Cut the OEM speaker wires coming from the OEM amp in the trunk, and feed the signal into an amp with speaker-level inputs and auto turn-on circuitry (like Blaupunkt Tha1250PnP). Then connect the speaker output from the amp back into the OEM wiring going to the woofers. You can use a mono amp, like I did, or stereo, the difference is virtually inaudible. Use the high-pass filter on the amp to protect the OEM woofers from overexcursion (and melting of the voice-coils), and set it at about 50 to 60 Hz. You can set it lower, or "off", but be very careful!

If you don't want to cut the OEM wiring, and/or you want to use an amp without speaker level inputs and auto-turn-on circuitry, forum member Technic has a harness for sale that will allow you to hook up an aftermarket amp without cutting any wires, period. It doesn't get any easier!

This thread was very helpful for me when I did this upgrade: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=logic7+amp

#3: Install MS-8 Processor to replace L7 amp
(requires #1 upgrade above)

Info here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=ms-8

Cost: $700 - $1000 (using OEM speakers)
Installation time: 3-5 hours
Difficulty: 4 (1-9)

P.S. don't try to remind me about the SWS-8 upgrade, it is #4 and didn't make the list!

fdriller9 · 08-16-2010, 08:57 PM

Nice write up...one suggestion though. Can you post your settings? Mainly if your using the L7 "surround sound" or not and if you are, which one...Concert or Theater Hall?

The tweeter in the center channel is interesting. Is it wired in line with the midbass driver like the doors? Any mods to the speaker or just plug in like the doors?

quality_sound · 08-16-2010, 11:22 PM

You don't want to use the OEM L7 processing when using an MS-8 since the MS-8 has it's own algorithm.

VP Electricity · 08-16-2010, 11:48 PM

I bet bang for the buck should include:

1) Disconnecting the center and turning off L7.

2) Replacing front speakers.

I'm just saying.

Saigon · 08-17-2010, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

I bet bang for the buck should include:

1) Disconnecting the center and turning off L7.

2) Replacing front speakers.

I'm just saying.

any electrical problems in the near future? error codes for this?

Wake27 · 08-17-2010, 02:14 AM

I like my center speaker, I missed it when I unplugged it while waiting for the new one. And my stock L7 setup makes my rearview mirror vibrate.

kaigoss69 · 08-17-2010, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *********

Nice write up...one suggestion though. Can you post your settings? Mainly if your using the L7 "surround sound" or not and if you are, which one...Concert or Theater Hall?

The tweeter in the center channel is interesting. Is it wired in line with the midbass driver like the doors? Any mods to the speaker or just plug in like the doors?

L7 settings are in the stickie. "Music" is the setting to choose if you don't have iDrive.

The tweeter plugs right in to the mid (see pic). It is thereby wired parallel to the mid, just like in the doors and rear deck.

kaigoss69 · 08-17-2010, 07:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

I bet bang for the buck should include:

1) Disconnecting the center and turning off L7.

2) Replacing front speakers.

I'm just saying.

1) Have you tried adding the tweeter? You'd be surprised...

2) Replacing the fronts speakers is neither DIY (at least not for the average person), nor bang for your buck, not with L7 as the basis.

DTisme · 08-17-2010, 11:24 AM

If it were me, and if possible, I would leave the outside assembly on the tweeter. The top plastic is just for protection (on this model) but towards
the outside where you see the tiny roll-edge attached to the dome, the plastic that's placed over that region (normally) has a lot to do with the frequency response of the tweeter. It's usually much worst when that portion isn't there.

just my $0.02 and if you like then it's good enough.

dT

Xaero · 08-17-2010, 12:01 PM

Would you mind expanding the list to 4,5,6,7...

quality_sound · 08-17-2010, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DTisme

If it were me, and if possible, I would leave the outside assembly on the tweeter. The top plastic is just for protection (on this model) but towards
the outside where you see the tiny roll-edge attached to the dome, the plastic that's placed over that region (normally) has a lot to do with the frequency response of the tweeter. It's usually much worst when that portion isn't there.

just my $0.02 and if you like then it's good enough.

dT

Who fed you that line of crap?

The grill has NOTHING to do with the suspension of the tweeter. Some grills will cause diffraction and that can affect the frequency response but that's it.

DTisme · 08-18-2010, 11:20 AM

Correct, the plastic bezel has nothing to do with the "suspension" of the tweeter, but it dose have an effect on the phase relationship between the roll edge (suspension) and the dome itself. It also helps control the off axis dispersion. If you look very closely, you can see there is a bevel right at the roll edge in the bezel and a certain distance between the bezel and roll edge... both are part of the design.

Only adding my suggestions based on designs I've worked on in the past. Not sure if I've ever worked with that tweeter in particular, but every one I have worked on that area of the design was also important.

As I said before.. Only adding my 0.02 and that's it.

quality_sound · 08-18-2010, 11:55 AM

It's beveled to minimize it's affect on the freq. response, that's it. A lip of plastic is not going to be able to affect the phase of anything. Are you sure you know what phase is? There is simply no way for the surround to have any phase problems that the dome doesn't. Hell, if you're looking at a single driver like this phase doesn't even exist since phase is only a relationship between two drivers.

hanggaw · 08-19-2010, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaigoss69

Tweeter plugs right into midrange

Note: If you want, you can "borrow" the tweeter from the rear deck (if available). Unless you like to fade to the rear of the car, you will not notice the difference with or without the tweeter back there.

So if we "borrow" this tweeter from the rear (wouldn't this be standard on a Logic 7 system?), it should just plug-in into the center channel speaker, correct?

kaigoss69 · 08-19-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanggaw

So if we "borrow" this tweeter from the rear (wouldn't this be standard on a Logic 7 system?), it should just plug-in into the center channel speaker, correct?

I think one of the models does not have rear deck speakers, possibly the e93, all others should have them.

Yes it plugs right in, just look at the pics...

Xaero · 08-21-2010, 07:22 AM

What is everyone's opinion on the BSW Stage 1 speaker upgrade? I am looking for a little more softness (ears tend to start bleeding when i crank it up), and also I would like a little more bump.

So here is what i am thinking:

1. Center Tweeter
2. BSW Speakers
3. SWS-8 w/amp
4. MS-8

Or

1. Tweeter
2. BSW Speakers
3. 10" trunk sub (ws6 ?)
4. underseat mids?
5. MS-8
6. Amp for mids and sub ?

kaigoss69 · 08-21-2010, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaero

What is everyone's opinion on the BSW Stage 1 speaker upgrade? I am looking for a little more softness (ears tend to start bleeding when i crank it up), and also I would like a little more bump.

So here is what i am thinking:

1. Center Tweeter
2. BSW Speakers
3. SWS-8 w/amp
4. MS-8

Or

1. Tweeter
2. BSW Speakers
3. 10" trunk sub (ws6 ?)
4. underseat mids?
5. MS-8
6. Amp for mids and sub ?

I would strongly encourage you to do the tweeter and MS-8 upgrade first, before you spend any more money. After I installed my MS-8 and let it power the stock speakers, I did not feel the need to do anything else above 150Hz (and I have some orphaned $800 Focal speakers now...). Below 150Hz, I would recommend you leave in the stock woofers and use them as mid-bass, and put a 10" in the trunk. All you will need is a mono amp for the trunk sub, and let the MS-8 power the rest. You can probably do this for under $1000 if you install yourself and you will have a Kickass (with a capital "K") SQ system. If you want trunk space, get a corner-loaded sub enclosure but it will cost you a bit more.

For the hardware (MS-8, amp, sub & box) I would recommend you contact VP Electricity.

You may also want to get a harness from Technic, which will allow you to do all the electrical connections without cutting/splicing any wires at all.

hanggaw · 09-09-2010, 03:56 PM

I did the tweeter addition to the center channel upgrade this week. It sounds like a totally different system for some reason. I noticed the center channel is still functioning even when the logic 7 setting is turned to off. The vocals are just much clearer. Could adding the tweeter have changed the impedance of the center channel speaker?

PhiDeltBeers · 09-09-2010, 04:36 PM

Where are you guys getting the tweeter to add to the dash speaker?

kaigoss69 · 09-09-2010, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhiDeltBeers

Where are you guys getting the tweeter to add to the dash speaker?

The rear deck!

Inprogress · 09-10-2010, 01:07 AM

Would it be possible to just purchase an additional tweeter, or would it be too expensive to go this route?

kaigoss69 · 09-10-2010, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inprogress

Would it be possible to just purchase an additional tweeter, or would it be too expensive to go this route?

Sure, I think it's about $80 - 90 at the stealer, or perhaps a bit less at Tischer.

08-16-2010, 07:40 PM	#1
kaigoss69 Brigadier General 300 Rep 3,969 Posts Drives: '08 335i Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: JAX iTrader: (6)	IMO, and based on my experience: #1: Add a tweeter to the center channel. This does wonders for improving the imaging of the L7 system. Before, voices were located close to the left tweeter pod, and after they are very close to dead center, almost head-high. This also adds some "crispness" to the front stage. Highly recommended. Cost: $0 - $90 Installation time: 1-2 hours Difficulty: 2 (1-9) Pics: L7 tweeter with in-line crossover and plug-in connector Tweeter plugs right into midrange Tweeter mounted using high-tech bracket made from tin cookie box Gorilla glue is awesome Make sure the tweeter is mounted such that the surface does not touch the grille. Note: If you want, you can "borrow" the tweeter from the rear deck (only in a sedan). Unless you like to fade to the rear of the car, you will likely not notice the difference with or without the tweeter back there. #2: Amplifying the underseat woofers. Basically, the OEM amp does not put out enough power for these to play to their full potential. Yes, they are OEM drivers and have their limitations, but they happen to be well-built, are optimized for the enclosures they're in, and do sound quite good with added "responsible" power. Notice to bass-heads: this upgrade is not for you!!! This will not shake the hell out of the car, make your system be heard for 5 blocks, or even make your rear-view mirror shake - it just allows the OEM "woofers" to keep up with the rest of the system. Cost: $100 - $300 Installation time: 1-3 hours Difficulty: 3 (1-9) I originally did this the simplest way possible: Cut the OEM speaker wires coming from the OEM amp in the trunk, and feed the signal into an amp with speaker-level inputs and auto turn-on circuitry (like Blaupunkt Tha1250PnP). Then connect the speaker output from the amp back into the OEM wiring going to the woofers. You can use a mono amp, like I did, or stereo, the difference is virtually inaudible. Use the high-pass filter on the amp to protect the OEM woofers from overexcursion (and melting of the voice-coils), and set it at about 50 to 60 Hz. You can set it lower, or "off", but be very careful! If you don't want to cut the OEM wiring, and/or you want to use an amp without speaker level inputs and auto-turn-on circuitry, forum member Technic has a harness for sale that will allow you to hook up an aftermarket amp without cutting any wires, period. It doesn't get any easier! This thread was very helpful for me when I did this upgrade: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=logic7+amp #3: Install MS-8 Processor to replace L7 amp (requires #1 upgrade above) Info here: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...highlight=ms-8 Cost: $700 - $1000 (using OEM speakers) Installation time: 3-5 hours Difficulty: 4 (1-9) P.S. don't try to remind me about the SWS-8 upgrade, it is #4 and didn't make the list! Last edited by kaigoss69; 08-21-2010 at 12:33 PM..
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08-17-2010, 02:14 AM	#6
Wake27 Lieutenant Colonel 46 Rep 1,681 Posts Drives: '06 330i ZPP ZSP Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NoVA missing SoCal iTrader: (1)	I like my center speaker, I missed it when I unplugged it while waiting for the new one. And my stock L7 setup makes my rearview mirror vibrate. __________________ 2006 JB 330i/ZPP/ZSP/I-Drive/Heated Seats/L7/Blacklines/19" Gunmetal V710's on Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas/BMS PBX/Red MFD Scoops/Matte black grilles/Matte black Amber Gone 2.0s/BSW center midrange speaker/35% tint/Black and white roundels
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08-17-2010, 11:24 AM	#9
DTisme New Member 0 Rep 14 Posts Drives: 07 335i Sedan Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Knoxville TN iTrader: (0)	If it were me, and if possible, I would leave the outside assembly on the tweeter. The top plastic is just for protection (on this model) but towards the outside where you see the tiny roll-edge attached to the dome, the plastic that's placed over that region (normally) has a lot to do with the frequency response of the tweeter. It's usually much worst when that portion isn't there. just my $0.02 and if you like then it's good enough. dT
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08-17-2010, 12:01 PM	#10
Xaero Private First Class 9 Rep 184 Posts Drives: Black 335i e92 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Louisiana iTrader: (0)	Would you mind expanding the list to 4,5,6,7...
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08-18-2010, 11:20 AM	#12
DTisme New Member 0 Rep 14 Posts Drives: 07 335i Sedan Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Knoxville TN iTrader: (0)	Correct, the plastic bezel has nothing to do with the "suspension" of the tweeter, but it dose have an effect on the phase relationship between the roll edge (suspension) and the dome itself. It also helps control the off axis dispersion. If you look very closely, you can see there is a bevel right at the roll edge in the bezel and a certain distance between the bezel and roll edge... both are part of the design. Only adding my suggestions based on designs I've worked on in the past. Not sure if I've ever worked with that tweeter in particular, but every one I have worked on that area of the design was also important. As I said before.. Only adding my 0.02 and that's it.
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08-16-2010, 08:57 PM	#2
fdriller9 Banned 252 Rep 7,089 Posts Drives: '06 AW 330xi Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: North Jersey/Philly/NYC iTrader: (4) Garage List 2006 330xi [6.44]	Nice write up...one suggestion though. Can you post your settings? Mainly if your using the L7 "surround sound" or not and if you are, which one...Concert or Theater Hall? The tweeter in the center channel is interesting. Is it wired in line with the midbass driver like the doors? Any mods to the speaker or just plug in like the doors?
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08-16-2010, 11:22 PM	#3
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	You don't want to use the OEM L7 processing when using an MS-8 since the MS-8 has it's own algorithm.
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08-16-2010, 11:48 PM	#4
VP Electricity Brigadier General 289 Rep 3,201 Posts Drives: F34 xDrive Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: portland oregon iTrader: (3)	I bet bang for the buck should include: 1) Disconnecting the center and turning off L7. 2) Replacing front speakers. I'm just saying.
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08-18-2010, 11:55 AM	#13
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	It's beveled to minimize it's affect on the freq. response, that's it. A lip of plastic is not going to be able to affect the phase of anything. Are you sure you know what phase is? There is simply no way for the surround to have any phase problems that the dome doesn't. Hell, if you're looking at a single driver like this phase doesn't even exist since phase is only a relationship between two drivers.
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08-21-2010, 07:22 AM	#16
Xaero Private First Class 9 Rep 184 Posts Drives: Black 335i e92 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Louisiana iTrader: (0)	What is everyone's opinion on the BSW Stage 1 speaker upgrade? I am looking for a little more softness (ears tend to start bleeding when i crank it up), and also I would like a little more bump. So here is what i am thinking: 1. Center Tweeter 2. BSW Speakers 3. SWS-8 w/amp 4. MS-8 Or 1. Tweeter 2. BSW Speakers 3. 10" trunk sub (ws6 ?) 4. underseat mids? 5. MS-8 6. Amp for mids and sub ?
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09-09-2010, 03:56 PM	#18
hanggaw New Member 4 Rep 17 Posts Drives: BMW X5 F15 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Miramar, FL iTrader: (0)	I did the tweeter addition to the center channel upgrade this week. It sounds like a totally different system for some reason. I noticed the center channel is still functioning even when the logic 7 setting is turned to off. The vocals are just much clearer. Could adding the tweeter have changed the impedance of the center channel speaker?
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09-09-2010, 04:36 PM	#19
PhiDeltBeers Lieutenant 96 Rep 552 Posts Drives: SEVERAL Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tulsa, OK iTrader: (0)	Where are you guys getting the tweeter to add to the dash speaker? __________________ 2019 RANGE ROVER SPORT SUPERCHARGED; 2023 JEEP WRANGLER RUBICON 4XE 2022 AUDI R8 PERFORMANCE RWD; 2023 BMW M3 XDRIVE; 2017 MERCEDES G550; 2023 CORVETTE Z06 (ORDERED)
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09-10-2010, 01:07 AM	#21
Inprogress First Lieutenant 84 Rep 311 Posts Drives: M5 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Texas iTrader: (2)	Would it be possible to just purchase an additional tweeter, or would it be too expensive to go this route?
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