[acerboo]

Originally Posted by Steve A

Tory scum.

labour scum lowered it to 15% trying to boost their re election chances so now this government are having to raise it to 20% to recover the loss, though still think its a bad move.

[toxicnerve]

Next year is going to be interesting.

Costs are going to be on the up all over the place; VAT, fuel duty, increased insurance premiums, energy bills, increase in clothing costs (wholesale price of cotton is through the roof) etc...

I think things are going to get very tight for some people and I would not be surprised to see further civil unrest. These student protests are just the start.

The shit, as they say, is going to get real thick I reckon...

[pjs]

Economy recovering nicely thank you.

We might be paying more for our stuff already, Say your pants cost £9.99, will they really now cost £10.21...?

[acerboo]

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

Next year is going to be interesting.

Costs are going to be on the up all over the place; VAT, fuel duty, increased insurance premiums, energy bills, increase in clothing costs (wholesale price of cotton is through the roof) etc...

I think things are going to get very tight for some people and I would not be surprised to see further civil unrest. These student protests are just the start.

The shit, as they say, is going to get real thick I reckon...

we are already in the shit how the hell do these people think we are going to get out of it, certainly not by wrecking police vans. i certainly dont want to pay my tax to keep student in university if they want to go there let them damn well pay for it themselves. i noticed while they were demonstrating and wrecking the place i was still at work!

[Steve A]

Originally Posted by acerboo

labour scum lowered it to 15% trying to boost their re election chances so now this government are having to raise it to 20% to recover the loss, though still think its a bad move.

I knew youd bite

[Boyd1963]

Originally Posted by acerboo

we are already in the shit how the hell do these people think we are going to get out of it, certainly not by wrecking police vans. i certainly dont want to pay my tax to keep student in university if they want to go there let them damn well pay for it themselves. i noticed while they were demonstrating and wrecking the place i was still at work!

The protests last week were mainly by school kids who are unhappy aboout the government taking away EMA (Education Maintenance Allowance). This is basically an allowance of £30 a week that is paid to 6th formers from poor backgrounds. It was introduced by labour to encourage these kids to go into further education and so help improve social mobility.

It is widely believed (in revolutionary circles) that the police van was a deliberate plant to try and make the kids look bad. The sight of schoolgirls trying to protect it was probably not what was expected.

I think that they have made a HUGE mistake by threatening to remove EMA and increase University fees. It sends a message to the masses that the government doesn't care about the further education of their children as only the rich will be able to afford to go to Uni.

[acerboo]

Originally Posted by Boyd1963

The protests last week were mainly by school kids who are unhappy aboout the government taking away EMA (Education Maintenance Allowance). This is basically an allowance of £30 a week that is paid to 6th formers from poor backgrounds. It was introduced by labour to encourage these kids to go into further education and so help improve social mobility.

It is widely believed (in revolutionary circles) that the police van was a deliberate plant to try and make the kids look bad. The sight of schoolgirls trying to protect it was probably not what was expected.

I think that they have made a HUGE mistake by threatening to remove EMA and increase University fees. It sends a message to the masses that the government doesn't care about the further education of their children as only the rich will be able to afford to go to Uni.

the £30 was offered by labour to keep school leavers off the dole queue!! why shouldnt students pay? i did a course of french lessons they werent free i had to pay, thats further education whats the difference.

[Hotcoupe]

Originally Posted by acerboo

the £30 was offered by labour to keep school leavers off the dole queue!! why shouldnt students pay? i did a course of french lessons they werent free i had to pay, thats further education whats the difference.

You speak Franglais Jeff!
Wunderbar

[dxb335d]

Labour are SCUM!!!! SCUM FUCKS.

[JLR1969]

These people really wind me up, when will they learn if you can't afford it then you can't have it. Simple.

If you really want it then borrow the money like everyone else.

The police set a trap with a van....... Load of bollocks.

Whenever I see a police car parked up the first thing I think is ooh must smash that up....NOT

Enough of the scrounging start paying like the decent minority.

[dxb335d]

+1 John-boy!

[peterg1965]

This can all be tracked back to the totally flawed policy of getting 50% of kids into university. I simply do not understand this policy, kids, who in my day, would move into work (or maybe go to Polytechnic, or Technical College) because they were not academic enough to go to Uni, now are encouraged to go to second rate Universities to get CRAP, useless degrees.

We would be better off encouraging more apprenticeships (which lead to practical foundation degrees) and work based vocational degrees.

All that has happened is the the Bachelors Degree has become the A level standard of 20 years ago. This bullshit about disadvantaged kids being discouraged from going to Uni is bollocks and Labour propaganda (excuse my colourfull language). I went to pretty average Comprehensive school, leaving in 1982, and students, regardless of background, class or whatever, were encouraged to go to Uni IF they were academically up to it. For the record, I didn't go to university, I like to think that I have made a success of my career, even without going to Uni, and I now have a 'work based' Masters Degree.

If you weren't good enough, you found a job and went to work!

[NFS]

Originally Posted by acerboo

labour scum lowered it to 15% trying to boost their re election chances so now this government are having to raise it to 20% to recover the loss, though still think its a bad move.

That is the most incredible justification for a bad Tory policy that I have ever heard.

I am worried that you seriously believe this.

[NightVisitant]

As with all things, I like to get to the root of problems - when and why was VAT (or the old "sales tax" first introduced, and why did the masses sit by and let it be introduced?

I fail to see why the government deserve that share of your money while you work hard, have been taxed already (and pretty harshly in days gone by), and then double-taxed on everything you buy. This sounds like corruption at best, and just blatant greed and oppression at worse...

Unfortunately, the masses have become so docile and reluctant to fight for what's morally correct, they have allowed the ruling parties to walk straight over this once-proud and dignified nation...

I'd rather keep my opinion on the subject to that shallow input, otherwise I'll be typing all night because the depth and breadth of the problems we face today are truly biblical

[dxb335d]

Type boy type!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Boyd1963]

Originally Posted by acerboo

the £30 was offered by labour to keep school leavers off the dole queue!! why shouldnt students pay? i did a course of french lessons they werent free i had to pay, thats further education whats the difference.

That's a very cynical view of what was a truly "Progressive" policy. The reason that students shouldn't pay is because educational opportunities should be open to all and not just the rich. Traditionally you could have learnt French at night school for a nominal sum but unfortunately the funding for that was pulled (by Labour)

[Boyd1963]

Originally Posted by peterg1965

This can all be tracked back to the totally flawed policy of getting 50% of kids into university. I simply do not understand this policy, kids, who in my day, would move into work (or maybe go to Polytechnic, or Technical College) because they were not academic enough to go to Uni, now are encouraged to go to second rate Universities to get CRAP, useless degrees.

We would be better off encouraging more apprenticeships (which lead to practical foundation degrees) and work based vocational degrees.

All that has happened is the the Bachelors Degree has become the A level standard of 20 years ago. This bullshit about disadvantaged kids being discouraged from going to Uni is bollocks and Labour propaganda (excuse my colourfull language). I went to pretty average Comprehensive school, leaving in 1982, and students, regardless of background, class or whatever, were encouraged to go to Uni IF they were academically up to it. For the record, I didn't go to university, I like to think that I have made a success of my career, even without going to Uni, and I now have a 'work based' Masters Degree.

If you weren't good enough, you found a job and went to work!

I think that the figure of 50% was probably a bit ambitious but in theory it was a good idea although introducing tuition fees to pay for it was not. Big Business is always bleating about there not being enough talent and so bring in people from overseas. How can that be a good idea?

All that has really changed is that the Polys and Techs now call themselves universities.

I don't deny that we need apprenticeships but there have to be jobs to go to at the end of them and industry is dead in this country.

>>This bullshit about disadvantaged kids being discouraged from going to Uni is bollocks and Labour propaganda

So you are sitting on benefits are you going to encourage your kids to get themselves into £27k of debt. I earn a very good salary and am very reluctant to encourage my daughters to go to Uni. Only the truly wealthy can afford that sort of debt. Yes I know all about the tapered repayments but you still owe that money.

>>I went to pretty average Comprehensive school, leaving in 1982, and students, regardless of background, class or whatever, were encouraged to go to Uni IF they were academically up to it.

This is exactly my point. Now you have to have money to be able to afford it. If only we could roll it back to 1982 when there were no fees and anybody from any background could go to university.

A lot of people make successful careers despite not going to University but statistically you are better off having a degree and for most "professions" it is essential (Law, Medicine, Teaching etc)

[Boyd1963]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

These people really wind me up, when will they learn if you can't afford it then you can't have it. Simple.

If you really want it then borrow the money like everyone else.

The police set a trap with a van....... Load of bollocks.

Whenever I see a police car parked up the first thing I think is ooh must smash that up....NOT

Enough of the scrounging start paying like the decent minority.

Nobody is scrounging. I pay my tax so that my children can have a decent education.

What's the logic in your argument. If you have no qualifications and can't get a job you're a scrounger. If you try to get the qualifications at 6th form or Uni you are a scrounger? Presumably if there are NO jobs you are still a scrounger. Hey and let's not forget Civil Servants. Scroungers!!!!!

>>Whenever I see a police car parked up the first thing I think is ooh must smash that up....NOT
You might do it they had illegally imprisoned you (kettling), bashed you over the head with a truncheon or charged you on horseback.

For the record I do not condone violence or the destruction of property I am just presenting another point of view with reference to the police van.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by Boyd1963

Nobody is scrounging. I pay my tax so that my children can have a decent education.

What's the logic in your argument. If you have no qualifications and can't get a job you're a scrounger. If you try to get the qualifications at 6th form or Uni you are a scrounger? Presumably if there are NO jobs you are still a scrounger. Hey and let's not forget Civil Servants. Scroungers!!!!!

>>Whenever I see a police car parked up the first thing I think is ooh must smash that up....NOT
You might do it they had illegally imprisoned you (kettling), bashed you over the head with a truncheon or charged you on horseback.

For the record I do not condone violence or the destruction of property I am just presenting another point of view with reference to the police van.

For the record no matter how uneducated someone is there are always ways to earn money legally..... FACT

The issue I have is people cannot be bothered to work and would rather stay at home and claim benefit.....FACT

No matter what grievance you have against the police smashing up a police van is out of order and not acceptable.....FACT

I agree that education should be free until you leave school at 16, however if you want to go to Uni and potentially earn ££££££ more as a result then you should pay towards the cost.

As I have said this country is in a mess partly because too many people take out and don't put back in. People expect everything for free simply because they can't afford to buy it.

If you can't afford it you can't have it........ SIMPLE

[Boyd1963]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

For the record no matter how uneducated someone is there are always ways to earn money legally..... FACT

The issue I have is people cannot be bothered to work and would rather stay at home and claim benefit.....FACT

No matter what grievance you have against the police smashing up a police van is out of order and not acceptable.....FACT

I agree that education should be free until you leave school at 16, however if you want to go to Uni and potentially earn ££££££ more as a result then you should pay towards the cost.

As I have said this country is in a mess partly because too many people take out and don't put back in. People expect everything for free simply because they can't afford to buy it.

If you can't afford it you can't have it........ SIMPLE

It is easier to get a job if you are educated. FACT

There are a lot of people who cannot get a job FACT

I do not condone violence or destruction of property FACT

>>however if you want to go to Uni and potentially earn ££££££ more as a result then you should pay towards the cost.

As I have said I pay my tax to cover this expense. I've already paid for it 20 times over. If you start cutting further education what will be next? Secondary schools? Send them all up chimneys at 11. If this country wants to compete against the rest of the world we need a highly educated population.

>>As I have said this country is in a mess partly because too many people take out and don't put back in.

This country is in a mess because the super rich and corporations don't pay their taxes. Meanwhile the Tories will continue to reduce what services we get back from the taxes that we pay. Do you think that they will reduce our income tax to compensate us. Will they f**K.

[xenon]

Originally Posted by Boyd1963

As I have said I pay my tax to cover this expense.

But your tax does NOT and can not cover this expense and nor does anyone else's and that's the point. We either hike taxes massively to fund FE, including tosspot courses in media and social studies OR we ask the students to pay for their own education on the basis that they pay it back once in full-time graduate-level employment. If they do a worthwhile degree they'll get a worthwhile job.

It's people expecting to be able to fuck about for 5 years doing the student thing and coming out with a worthless degree and thinking they're entitled to do this is why we're in a state.

Worthless universities giving out worthless, unneeded degrees to worthless gobshites is the problem.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by xenon

It's people expecting to be able to fuck about for 5 years doing the student thing and coming out with a worthless degree and thinking they're entitled to do this is why we're in a state.

Worthless universities giving out worthless, unneeded degrees to worthless gobshites is the problem.

You are right that this is the problem.

20 years ago only a very small proportion of society gained degrees. In those days a degree was a true differentiator.

Thatchers government pushed the Higher Education agrenda on dramatically, with a stated target that 50% of school leavers would get degrees.

No-one discovered a magic pill to make people cleverer, so by necessity this meant that degrees (and A Levels / GCSEs) had to get easier so more people could manage to pass the exams.

Step forward a few years and we have degrees that do not differentiate and are broadly worthless. We als have a ridiculous number of students that can no longer be funded or supported by the state.

The only winners here are the Universities, who got some fantastic shiny new buildings paid for by the windfall in additional 'subsidised' tuition fees.