[vasillalov]

Ok folks,

I worked on my brakes this weekend in preparation for the upcoming race season. Here is what I did so far:

1. ECSTuning stainless steel brake lines. Replaced all 6 of them
2. Porterfield RS4 pads front and rear
3. Motul 5.1 fluid flush. I used pressure bleeder to help me bleed the brakes and flush any air and the old fluid out.

I went through the pad bedding process very carefully and meticulously. The pads are bedded in correctly and I can say that they are a lot better than the stock ones. They grab a lot better, they resist to fading and they are quiet. At the moment the grabbing power of the new pads completely overwhelms the tires at about half the brake effort I exert.

Now my question is about the brake feedback from the brake lines. I don't feel anything different than with the stock lines. The brake pedal feels EXACTLY the same as before, if not a little bit mushier/spongier.

What is the general feedback I should be expecting from the SS brake lines? Are they supposed to provide a linear feel to the brakes?

Also, should I use the ABS pump to attempt to stir up the brake system and release any trapped air? This seems to be the normal procedure at the dealerships then they flush fluid.

Thanks in advance.

[quattrosaint]

From my experience ss brake lines don't make any difference on the street. As far as the spungy feel, you may have an air bubble somewhere.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by quattrosaint

From my experience ss brake lines don't make any difference on the street. As far as the spungy feel, you may have an air bubble somewhere.

Thank you for your response. Two things:

1. So on the track, what should I be expecting from the ss brake lines that would be different from the OEM ones?

2. I knew someone would say that... I guess I'll redo the bleeding process again.

[quattrosaint]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Thank you for your response. Two things:

1. So on the track, what should I be expecting from the ss brake lines that would be different from the OEM ones?

2. I knew someone would say that... I guess I'll redo the bleeding process again.

Rubber brake lines tend to "stretch" with the increasing heat that comes with tracking. The ss brake lines will not flex so you will get more consistent pedal feel, even with increased heat.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by quattrosaint

Rubber brake lines tend to "stretch" with the increasing heat that comes with tracking. The ss brake lines will not flex so you will get more consistent pedal feel, even with increased heat.

Aaah! That makes sense. So basically the ss brakes maintain the brake pedal feel as the heat in the brake system rises.

Now it's making perfect sense: brake lines + racing brake fluid + racing brake pads and rotors = consistent brake pedal feel across the temperature range.

[Rotorocious]

I'd do the abs pump activation, it's pretty cool to see the car pump the pedal for you.

[CJ421]

Originally Posted by quattrosaint

Rubber brake lines tend to "stretch" with the increasing heat that comes with tracking. The ss brake lines will not flex so you will get more consistent pedal feel, even with increased heat.

WHS

I had a 100% stock brake setup first time I went to the track. 2nd time I went I had the SS lines (kudos to you for having all 6 changed, not everyone does ) and upgraded fluid. It equates to a more predictable driving experience. The fluid is the most important. Both items are worth the $, I say.

[ECSTuning]

quattrosaint hit it on the head! The feel doesn't really "change" when going to SS lines, it just becomes much most consistent. Give the brakes another bleed, that should help "tighten up" the feel. Also have you bed the brakes yet? Some pads will not feel "right" until they have been bedded.

[vasillalov]

Thanks for your responses guys. Yes, it's true that not everyone changes all 6 lines and its a shame because its so easy. Yeah, I have the pads bedded in correctly. I'll just bleed the system one more time to make sure everything is done correctly.

Now this brings me to my next question: I have the Motive pressure bleeder. Should I use this IN CONJUNCTION with ABS pump method? I don't want to damage anything by pushing 15 psi of hydraulic pressure and then energizing the ABS pump.

Comments?

[BMWsky]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Thanks for your responses guys. Yes, it's true that not everyone changes all 6 lines and its a shame because its so easy. Yeah, I have the pads bedded in correctly. I'll just bleed the system one more time to make sure everything is done correctly.

You found the mid-lines to be easy? I thought they were a huge PITA due to the tight space involved.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by BMWsky

You found the mid-lines to be easy? I thought they were a huge PITA due to the tight space involved.

Well the space is indeed a bit tight, but it is not that bad if you can lift the car high enough to access them from below the subframe.

[stratplaya06]

Originally Posted by BMWsky

You found the mid-lines to be easy? I thought they were a huge PITA due to the tight space involved.

+1 those were a huge bitch compared to the others. Ended up losing all the fluid onto my garage floor while trying to get them out, and I was using my maxjax lift.

To OP: I did the same brake upgrade as the you, but with RBF600 fluid and Z435is rotors, and I noticed a huge increase in pedal stiffness. I would bleed using the old fashion method and have a friend help you. There's gotta be an air bubble because the brake feel is night and day with the new lines. With these lines the feel is so linear and there is little brake travel once you hit the initial point of pad contact. I no longer desire a BBK because of how much better the braking feel and power are with these simple mods and with my michelin PSS 275's all around.

I am extremely hard on my brakes, which may be why I feel the increased stiffness more than more sedate drivers, but even just around town I really like how the brakes feel. My friends all have stainless lines on their cars now because of how much they liked how mine felt.

[vasillalov]

^^

I already purchased new fluid as I don't have enough to bleed the brakes again. When it arrives, I'll make sure I bleed them again.

[SHEEDI]

I know this is old thread, just bumped into it, looking to upgrade braking components .....

so bottom line is that there is no need for SS lines for street/daily driving?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by SHEEDI

I know this is old thread, just bumped into it, looking to upgrade braking components .....

so bottom line is that there is no need for SS lines for street/daily driving?

No, not needed.

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by SHEEDI

I know this is old thread, just bumped into it, looking to upgrade braking components .....

so bottom line is that there is no need for SS lines for street/daily driving?

Honestly, don't really need any brake upgrades for daily/street driving. On the track it is definitely needed. With my stock M sport brakes on my F32 4 series the brake fluid got too hot and I lost 100% brake pressure and couldn't stop.

[techwhiz]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

Honestly, don't really need any brake upgrades for daily/street driving. On the track it is definitely needed. With my stock M sport brakes on my F32 4 series the brake fluid got too hot and I lost 100% brake pressure and couldn't stop.

Really. 100% fade?
What track were you on and how fast were you going?

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by techwhiz

Really. 100% fade?
What track were you on and how fast were you going?

Close to 99% fade. I pumped the brake and it went straight to the floor and did not have any effect. I quickly pumped the brake again before the turn and got it to slow down barely. I was at Button Willow going into turn 4 at about 85mph. I just tried to pump the brakes as much as possible and eventually turned in (obviously too fast) and over steered but I corrected it and finished my lap safely. I brought it in under warranty and they replaced the pads and bled the fluid. I am going to order race fluid and lines before the next track event.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

Honestly, don't really need any brake upgrades for daily/street driving. On the track it is definitely needed. With my stock M sport brakes on my F32 4 series the brake fluid got too hot and I lost 100% brake pressure and couldn't stop.

That doesn't sound right at all... I ran stock pads and stock fluids once at the track as well. Sure I burnt through a brand new set in just 4 sessions (according to the corner workers, there were sparks were flying out calipers at the later session), but never completely lost the brake. F series have even stronger front brakes, so should be even less of a problem.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

That doesn't sound right at all... I ran stock pads and stock fluids once at the track as well. Sure I burnt through a brand new set in just 4 sessions (according to the corner workers, there were sparks were flying out calipers at the later session), but never completely lost the brake. F series have even stronger front brakes, so should be even less of a problem.

Would have been awesome if you had some photos from your brakes flying sparks!
About boiling the brake fluid, if the driver is sleeping on the brake pedal and doesn't use cool down laps he will all brakes on all cars.
We need to ask how he is using the brakes.
Do you agree?

[justpete]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

Close to 99% fade. I pumped the brake and it went straight to the floor and did not have any effect. I quickly pumped the brake again before the turn and got it to slow down barely. I was at Button Willow going into turn 4 at about 85mph. I just tried to pump the brakes as much as possible and eventually turned in (obviously too fast) and over steered but I corrected it and finished my lap safely. I brought it in under warranty and they replaced the pads and bled the fluid. I am going to order race fluid and lines before the next track event.

Had this happen once with stock pads and rotors and Motul fluid. Crap driving, wwwwway overbraking, waaaaay too high a corner entry speed in too many preceding corners, etc. Driver error. If you're progressing you're braking less but harder and for shorter times so this shouldn't happen anymore. Race fluid's not a bad idea for the track anyway though.

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

That doesn't sound right at all... I ran stock pads and stock fluids once at the track as well. Sure I burnt through a brand new set in just 4 sessions (according to the corner workers, there were sparks were flying out calipers at the later session), but never completely lost the brake. F series have even stronger front brakes, so should be even less of a problem.

Ive ran stock fluid and pads at the past 10 track events and did not have a problem. It was just this time because I was pushing the car and did 0 cool down laps. Stronger brakes will not eliminate this issue, its the fluid.

Originally Posted by feuer

Would have been awesome if you had some photos from your brakes flying sparks!
About boiling the brake fluid, if the driver is sleeping on the brake pedal and doesn't use cool down laps he will all brakes on all cars.
We need to ask how he is using the brakes.
Do you agree?

I was pushing the car for multiple laps with no cool downs and this happened.

Originally Posted by justpete

Had this happen once with stock pads and rotors and Motul fluid. Crap driving, wwwwway overbraking, waaaaay too high a corner entry speed in too many preceding corners, etc. Driver error. If you're progressing you're braking less but harder and for shorter times so this shouldn't happen anymore. Race fluid's not a bad idea for the track anyway though.

this is true. In my case I was over braking a bit because I was still learning the track but it wasn't anything dramatic. I attend mostly high speed tracks such as willow springs and buttonwillow which are hard on the brakes.