[SteveC]

But long term these exercises will help prevent recurring back pain

http://www.spinalsurgeon.com/treatme...tness-program/

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by dobbo99

makkan, Im subscribed!
this is more information than I seemed to have obtained from 'paid' help

I think I may have a disc problem, but I also feel that I need to be doing great strength work to improve things, rather than just stretching.
I don't think my strength is that bad, I can plank for 2mins, lifting weights is fine, swinging a golf club is fine. but I still have an aching niggle in the base of my back.

Agreed that you need some good exercises.
Remember that lifting heavy weight to build the muscle is not the work you should be looking at.
There is a slightly different type of muscle work, which is the ability to lift that weight for sometime...so muscles are not moving but still working.
Thats what you required at spinal level and at smaller muscles level.

If you are saying that back pain is still there, consult your private insurance / or go through your gp. Tell them that you had all sort of physio/ treatment but you are not improving. Start with x-rays and progress to MRI. MRI is gold standard (best) for diagnosis of disc issues.

Originally Posted by dobbo99

Over the last couple of days Ive noticed that if I clench my buttocks, or suck in my abs, any aching I have from my back disappears almost 100%. more so if I suck in my abs.
So is this tensing of the muscle then generating better 'support' to the other areas?

Yes, it suggests that you are transmitting the forces through muscles than bone/ vertebrae and discs. And pain decreases.

Other possible theory is that when you do that, you breath through the upper chest (adaptation of your breathing) as opposed to breathing through your tummy / diaphragm (normal breathing). By doing so you decrease the movement at spinal level and hence less pain or you feel secure.

Originally Posted by dobbo99

Im going to put together a list of weighted moves, and try those for a couple of weeks and see what happens, if I aggravate it, then I'll stop.

will PM you.

Lets starts with basics.

There is no hard and fast rule to check the core muscles of one person, but these 4 task gives you some idea on the core muscle of one. (time all these in seconds please and do it only if they are pain free. If any of it increases the pain, then stop it and let me know. Ask your partner / mate to observe you and time you. You may not notice the changes/ failure in your posture.)

1- The prone bridge


It is performed by supporting the body’s weight between the forearms and toes and primarily assesses the anterior and posterior core muscles.
Failure occurs when the you loses neutral pelvis and falls into a lordotic position (increased curve of your spine) with anterior rotation of the pelvis.

Procedure: You support yourself on the forearms, with the pelvis in the neutral position and the body straight.

2- The lateral bridge (do it both on Right side and left side)

It assesses the lateral core muscles. Failure occurs when the patient loses the straight posture and the hip falls towards the table/floor.

Procedure: Legs are extended and the top foot placed in front of the lower foot for support.
You support yourself on one elbow and on your feet while lifting your hips off the floor to create a straight line over your body length. The uninvolved arm is held across the chest with the hand placed on the opposite shoulder.

3- Testing of the torso/ trunk flexors


It can be done by timing how long you can hold a position of seated torso flexion at 60°. Failure occurs when your torso falls below 60°. (Your trunk goes back)

Procedure: The athlete sits at 60° with both hips and knees at 90°, arms folded across the chest with the hands placed on the opposite shoulder, and toes secured under toe straps or by the examiner.

4- Testing of the torso/ trunk Extensors

The endurance of the torso extensors can be tested with lying facing down. Failure occurs when the upper body falls from horizontal into a flexed position.

Procedure: The athlete is prone (facing down) over the edge of the couch with the pelvis, hips and knees secured. The upper limbs are held across the chest with the hands resting on the opposite shoulders.


So if we get these tests done over the weekend, and share the results here or in pm, and I'll be able to comment from their on.
Next thing would be sharing the exercises to improve the core muscles.

[rich1068]

And he'll code an Alpine retro fit with his other hand.

[dobbo99]

so the test results:
ex1 - 1min30
ex2 - 50sec both sides
ex3 - 45secs
ex4 - 55secs

no idea if this is good or bad, or average.
the first 2 ive been doing already, so my body is familiar with those.
ex3 feels like its hitting the places that need work.

ive changed tack slightly and gone for quad, hamstring and hip development over the last 2 sessions, some weighted and some not, there is a small improvement already in my opinion, and no stiffness in my back which is probably more important.

ive also bought a triggerpoint roller thing, which seems to be helping too. especially on my iliotibial band, glutes and hamstrings.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by dobbo99

so the test results:
ex1 - 1min30
ex2 - 50sec both sides
ex3 - 45secs
ex4 - 55secs

no idea if this is good or bad, or average.
the first 2 ive been doing already, so my body is familiar with those.
ex3 feels like its hitting the places that need work.

ive changed tack slightly and gone for quad, hamstring and hip development over the last 2 sessions, some weighted and some not, there is a small improvement already in my opinion, and no stiffness in my back which is probably more important.

ive also bought a triggerpoint roller thing, which seems to be helping too. especially on my iliotibial band, glutes and hamstrings.

First two are good for your age.
I guess you can improve the last two. It appears that you have weakness in the front abs.
You can start working on 3rd and 4th exercises other than what you are doing. Target 90 secs.

Carry on with hams, quads and hips if they do not increase the pain.

If I get time, I will update few exercises for core muscles.

[Carjack]

4/5 years ago I had sciatica nerve problems which became so severe that I had difficulty in walking and driving.
Finished up with a Blue Badge. OK for parking but not much for my self esteem.
I overcame the problem to the extent that I now go jogging three times a week. I thought I was finished.
How did I do it? By improving my posture. I always ensure I have a lumbar support cushion whenever I sit. The BMW add-on extra 'Lumbar Support' is excellent and always worth adding on when speccing a new car.
Heated seats can be help as well.
I believe it was driving cars which triggered my problems in the first place.

[dobbo99]

Originally Posted by makkan00

First two are good for your age.
I guess you can improve the last two. It appears that you have weakness in the front abs.
You can start working on 3rd and 4th exercises other than what you are doing. Target 90 secs.

Carry on with hams, quads and hips if they do not increase the pain.

If I get time, I will update few exercises for core muscles.

what can I do to strengthen the abs?
Ive always been of the thought process that constant 'crunching' is useless and probably does more damage than good.

[Carjack]

Further to my above post I should also have mentioned that I go to the gym 2/3 times a week. Its exercise in fact ever day. If its not jogging its the gym.

In the gym I concentrate on free weights e.g. bench press, bench fly's, overhead arm curls, pull up's & chin ups.

I certainly do not do things like crunches, arm curls or anything which will stress or load my back.

I've being doing this routine now for the last 2/3 years and it appears to work for me.

[335DEE]

Great stuff .. subscribed !!

I too am a seasoned golfer , sit at a desk and drive a million miles a year ( when i'm not sat at my desk).
I'm starting to have these sciatic episodes more and more frequently now. I think the catalyst was coming off a button ski lift some years ago where the bit that goes between your legs should be spring loaded , this one wasn't and i bent double backwards when it launched me off. Cant even lift what i would regard fairly light amounts of weight before being Completely frozen in excruciating pain for 2 to 3 days at a time. When the pain starts to subside it's clear that the right side suffers the worst of the pain.

I started to see a chiropractor who really did wonders for my back , until one time he did some movement on me that he had been doing for weeks , except this time he put me back to square one and i've never been since.

I've been looking for some form of advice without being raped of scarce funds and this little read here has given me some great info.
Many many thanks !!

[dobbo99]

progress report, which might inspire you Dee

so my gym sessions for the last couple of weeks have consisted of mainly core orientated tasks, and the difference is night and day.
I'm still aching like a bitch after each one, but its working.

10mins of cross trainer to warm up.
2 mins plank x 3
1 mins side plank each side x 3
hip raises, 3 set of 12 with 10kg weight
single leg hip raise, no weight
weighted squats, 4 sets of 10
weighted one leg deadlifts, 3 sets of 8
oblique twist with 8kg ball, 3 sets of 25.
long stride into lunge with 10kg ball, hold in lunge for 5 seconds
exercises 3 and 4 from the list above (don't know what they are called)
finish off with cross trainer or bike for a few mins to help remove the tightening!
If its not busy, I can get all this done in an hour.

Then basically stretch as much as I can, and then do the stretches again before going to bed.

I had a golf weekend last weekend and have had no adverse reactions. I struggled on the Sunday but that was down to being a bit stiff from the previous round, alcohol from the Saturday night and trying to hard!

I also seem to have a lost a couple of pounds, which is a bonus.

[Vaheed1]

Originally Posted by davyk31

I'm currently suffering from sciatica, came on 2 weeks ago after a couple of weeks of sore legs when walking. Couldn't move for three days, out of bed on fifth day, improved a lot but still a lot of muscle ache in one leg, mainly around my ankle and shin. Standing is sorest and lying flat ain't great.

These exercises sound useful although given I'm no expert I don't totally understand. Any suggestions to clear my pain would be wonderful.

Hi Davy,

Sciatica problems are a common occurrence in my family, I too have suffered that fate once. It was the most awful pain I have ever experienced. Unfortunately, I can't give you a remedy because there are only 2 real options for a permanent fix. You either have your disc shaved or you hope that it will heal itself; Mine was the latter. I was in the process of having the operation, when my Bupa consultant advised me to stick it out for another couple of weeks - as the general life span of these, for those who heal themselves, are around 12-16 weeks. A week before my scheduled op, I woke up a new man.

One of my brothers and my dad have had the operation and they have been fine every since.

I can give you a bit of advice on how to reduce the pain - if that helps.

- The disc is restricting blood flow to your limb, as you may well know, i found taking asprin with prescribed space travelling pain killers worked for a longer period of the day.

- sleep up right, with your legs on a stool or other means of support. It's not ideal, but it will help you relax without pain for longer periods.

- don't try and exercise it out as it will only increase the pain. Best would be to do a bit of reading on your posture. I didn't to start with, but with a bit of change on a daily basis, I found changing certain habits helped.

- swimming is a great way of trying to knock it back in to shape.

- use Ice as often as possible around the sore area's -as well as the lower back region.

One of my brothers went down another route, he's had an injection to help fix the problem. It lasts about 6-9 months and once it's effects have worn, he just has it again. My Chiropractor advises against this, as it's long term damage to the muscle and tissue surrounding the actual disc are yet not know. It's all above board though, as it's available on the NHS.

Good luck and I hope it all goes well for you.

[davyk31]

Cheers mate for your reply. I'm on 5 weeks now, has improved massively and only take over the counter Ibuprofen now and then. Feel the small of my back extremely weak and only mild pain there. Any pain I get is mainly in the shins and ankles, worst when standing still. Also quite uncomfortable in bed, we have ordered a new bed with decent memory foam mattress which will be here in two weeks so that might help the sleep.

I do think my posture isn't great so I need to read up on that. Generally while I'm at work I feel pretty good and sitting nice and straight. Once I get home and sit more relaxed in the arm chair it does start to ache. Part of that is likely tiredness and also posture.

[335DEE]

Wow, some great info here!
Thank you all for your contributions!

I'll have to take any advice here slowly, v. Slowly but I will do something about it as my situation can't go on as it is

[davyk31]

Yes I'm determined to try to help my position but realise it needs to be gradual. Just not sure when to start exercises as don't want to do anything that will do harm. Keen also to get back out walking the dog but given that was the pain before the back actually went I'm a bit wary.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by Vaheed1

Hi Davy,

One of my brothers and my dad have had the operation and they have been fine every since.

- The disc is restricting blood flow to your limb, as you may well know, i found taking asprin with prescribed space travelling pain killers worked for a longer period of the day.

- sleep up right, with your legs on a stool or other means of support. It's not ideal, but it will help you relax without pain for longer periods.

Sorry, its long time since I visited this thread.
I will try and respond to other queries when I get proper time.

Vaheed, I see that you are trying to help. Its good to help if your information is correct and if its not, then others can / may get harm.

I just thought to correct two things which you mentioned.
Starting with the first point, I guess you have not watched the video I posted. Hence you are stating something about restriction of blood circulation. Sciatica or disc problems are NOT circulation issues.
That is totally different pain and very excruciating.
Watch the video to know what goes wrong at the disc level.
Have you seen a person with gangrenic toe? where circulation is poor and body cells start dying and hence they have to amputate the toe or foot. Circulation issues are that serious.

I am not sure what you meant by second comment. If its disc problem, then lying flat helps you but not lying semi-reclined.
There is a reason that elite basketball players stay in lying position before match as their disc absorb the fluid and they gain some height.
There is some evidence that in the morning a height of one's is more than the height by the end of the day. All has to do with disc.
Lying position is the one in which disc has minimum pressure and due to that it shrinks and get confined to its space. So in that position you have better chances of it going back. It may not be comfortable for you (due to x, y and z factor) but thats the scientific logic of disc getting protruded back to its space.

I hope I have not offended you but passing such a wrong info is not good, especially if it can make somebody worst.