[5erman]

guys there is nothing any tuner will do differently if you have an exhaust system or a bmw intake or whatever.

The only mods a tuner cares about his real mods-camshafts, cat converter delete possibly, but seriously what do you think would change with a new muffler? All an exhaust does is help reduce engine drag with less power needed to get rid of gases-that will help efficiency so whatever the tune it does the same.

Intake is the same thing-your car is already getting more oxygen than it needs with a stock filter. At peak power it is nowhere NEAR utilizing all the oxygen available. An intake gives you more sound but there is nothing needed to tune-your car has built in ability to change when parameters mildly change so your intake may add nmore volume of flow per minute and your DME will adjust to that with or without a "tune"

Octane is the only important thing that will change the tune aside from big mods. The higher octane allows more aggressive tunes as far as timing and a/f goes

[BMCoupe_782]

Originally Posted by SDeFranco1

Will keep you posted

My understanding is, yes, it is customized- precisely to all of your car's bolt on mods right down to the octane gas you use.

It's AA, it can't be bad. That's my inspiration to go for it.

Oh man - now this sounds tempting. don't make me go for it as well!!

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by 5erman

your car is already getting more oxygen than it needs with a stock filter.

I know a car drives more sluggishly at much higher altitude. So the amount of air/oxygen available will make a difference even though a car is designed to adjust to different air pressure.

The question is whether a high performce intake can make any difference compared to the stock intake. No question a high perf intake will allow more air in, just that the increase may not bring noticeable power gain. Although I think it will make the car drive more lively, more responsive as the computer adjust to the higher air intake.

[robbiec]

Originally Posted by dtc100

I know a car drives more sluggishly at much higher altitude. So the amount of air/oxygen available will make a difference even though a car is designed to adjust to different air pressure.

The question is whether a high performce intake can make any difference compared to the stock intake. No question a high perf intake will allow more air in, just that the increase may not bring noticeable power gain. Although I think it will make the car drive more lively, more responsive as the computer adjust to the higher air intake.

No one ever wants to discuss Valvetronic on this board. The ECU throttles the engine by varying intake valve lift. Reduce intake and exhaust restriction all you want, the car will just compensate by reducing valve lift to keep airflow within the factory spec'd range. The car needs to be told to allow more airflow before these mods will work. That is why the 330 makes more power with the three stage intake manifold and two stage muffler. Put those parts on a 325 and you still have a 325.

[335imax]

Your saying that the stock ECU compensates for the increased air flow by limiting the Valves? Does the BMS or AA Software adjust Valvetronics?

[Dark_Knight_335]

Now that everyone mentions it, what's the verdict? Are you saying I won't gain said 15 HP and 12 FP Torque with this mod because my ECU is smart enough, through a ECU FLASH, to still do what it's always done???

[IancoleTX]

I highly highly doubt you are going to see more than a few hp man. Let us know.

[robbiec]

Originally Posted by SDeFranco1

Now that everyone mentions it, what's the verdict? Are you saying I won't gain said 15 HP and 12 FP Torque with this mod because my ECU is smart enough, through a ECU FLASH, to still do what it's always done???

No, no, I'm saying don't expect any gains WITHOUT a tune. Even if AA doesn't touch any of the valve lift or timing stuff, they can make power by maintaining 12.5:1 A/F at WOT or advancing ignition timing to take advantage of high octane gasoline. I'm saying that it's not possible to get more air into the cylinders without telling the ECU to allow more air into the cylinders. Low restriction intake and exhaust can reduce pumping losses, freeing up some power, but won't actually allow more airflow into the engine.

[Dark_Knight_335]

I learn something new every day here. Thank you.

[Dark_Knight_335]

Originally Posted by 325imax

Your saying that the stock ECU compensates for the increased air flow by limiting the Valves? Does the BMS or AA Software adjust Valvetronics?

BMS does not, so far as I know- anyone confirm?

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by SDeFranco1

BMS does not, so far as I know- anyone confirm?

I read somewhere that Valvetronics thing is quite tricky.

In any event, I do not dispute his explanation, I don't know better and he knows his stuff. But how do you explain your car drives sluggishly at much higher altitude, if the ECU always manages to keep the same amount of air intake?

But according to him, the only thing to play with is the A/F, which both the BMS and the AA do. The timing has to do with octane grade, so if you are using 91, there is not much to adjust because the factory ECU is tuned to 91?

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by robbiec

No one ever wants to discuss Valvetronic on this board. The ECU throttles the engine by varying intake valve lift. Reduce intake and exhaust restriction all you want, the car will just compensate by reducing valve lift to keep airflow within the factory spec'd range.

Ok here is something I want to throw out for discussion.

Assume out of the factory the A/F ratios are designed according to specs, and correspond to the RPMs. At low range RPMs our Bimmers use lean A/F (around 14)?

The air flow is measured by the MAF sensor (hot wire?) in the airbox. With the stock air intake say the A/F is controlled at 14 from 0 to 3000 RPM. If you bolt on a BMW performance intake, more air flow is achieved at any given RPM, so from 0 to 3000 RPM the MAF sensor reports more air flow, the ECU responds by delivering more fuel to maintain the 14 A/F. More fuel delivered, more power is produced, which may explain why people feel more responsive throttle and acceleration. This of course does not mean the ECU would not control the valve lifting to maintain the same air flow to the engine, but if it does so to restrict the air flow, we will have a more enriched fuel delivery, i.e. the A/F will be less than 14. The difference may be minimal but it is still noticed by the performance intake users.

Am I even close? Please shoot my theory down if you wish since I am only guessing, not an expert here.

[5erman]

dude you are you are confusing "air" and "oxygen" You keep mentioning altitude. It is not because "airflow" changes, it is because at higher altiude the air coming in carries less oxygen so in the chamber, the same amount of air is there as always but the O2 content is lower, and therefore less is available to burn with the fuel so the power output is less.

This is totally different than talking about an intake v. stock. A stock filter allows plenty of "airflow" to the point you could cover up half the air fliter likely and STILL have plenty of flow to make peak power.

Like someone said-you can do one thing with an intake and exhaust-which is reduce pumping losses but on this car that is NEGLIbile since valvetronic already gets rid of 90 percent of pumping losses by eliminating the throttle body.

INtake can make the car more responsive and gains its 1hp by reducing the last 10 percent of pumping loss--but its not going to get any more oxygen into the cylinder-there is only so much room for air--and air holds only so much oxygen (which changes at altitude)--so you could have a filter twice as big-no difference. ONLY FI that compresses air means you can fit more concentrated oxygen in less amount of air into a cylinder-so you have super conctrated oxygen basically.

intake does squat

[dtc100]

Originally Posted by 5erman

dude you are you are confusing "air" and "oxygen" You keep mentioning altitude. It is not because "airflow" changes, it is because at higher altiude the air coming in carries less oxygen so in the chamber, the same amount of air is there as always but the O2 content is lower, and therefore less is available to burn with the fuel so the power output is less.

This is totally different than talking about an intake v. stock. A stock filter allows plenty of "airflow" to the point you could cover up half the air fliter likely and STILL have plenty of flow to make peak power.

Like someone said-you can do one thing with an intake and exhaust-which is reduce pumping losses but on this car that is NEGLIbile since valvetronic already gets rid of 90 percent of pumping losses by eliminating the throttle body.

INtake can make the car more responsive and gains its 1hp by reducing the last 10 percent of pumping loss--but its not going to get any more oxygen into the cylinder-there is only so much room for air--and air holds only so much oxygen (which changes at altitude)--so you could have a filter twice as big-no difference. ONLY FI that compresses air means you can fit more concentrated oxygen in less amount of air into a cylinder-so you have super conctrated oxygen basically.

intake does squat

While I am not a mechanic or engine expert, I do know air At higher altitude, you have less air density, therefore less oxygen density. The MAF sensor measures air density, not oxygen density or oxygen concentration, it cannot separately measure the oxygen content in the air, in fact it does not even know how much air there is, it only knows when more air is blown pass the sensor, the "hot wire" cools off faster, and less electric current is flown through the wire, the ECU then increases the current through the wire to maintain designed temperature on the wire...

So more air passes through the sensor, faster it cools off, more voltage is applied on the wire to keep the wire heated up at a controled temp. The ECU detects the changes in the voltage and controls how much fuel to inject accordingly.

Again anyone should feel free to shoot me down

[3002 tii]

Good info for local guys but why is the thread titled "AAmotorwerk tune", makes reader think AKMotorwerks has tune available. You really mean the Active Autowerke (AA) tune right?

[Dark_Knight_335]

Thanks!

[Dark_Knight_335]

Will let you fellas know my results. Trying to find a Dyno in the NJ area, so far no luck however. I'm stoked!

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by SDeFranco1

Will let you fellas know my results. Trying to find a Dyno in the NJ area, so far no luck however. I'm stoked!

just curious, where in NJ are you?

[Wlew]

Just wondering, but why do you put a title on all of your posts? haha, not a big deal, just seems like 2 extra steps into a simple reply.

[Dark_Knight_335]

Duh! Just found the "quick reply" icon. Thanks Wlew!
Union NJ, by Newark and Elizabeth Dubbedown, why?

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by SDeFranco1

Duh! Just found the "quick reply" icon. Thanks Wlew!
Union NJ, by Newark and Elizabeth Dubbedown, why?

I'm up in Bergen, just wanted to know which shop was local to you, and if it was local to me as well since I may do the AA tune in the near future as well.

[Dark_Knight_335]

Originally Posted by Dubbedown

I'm up in Bergen, just wanted to know which shop was local to you, and if it was local to me as well since I may do the AA tune in the near future as well.

It's closer to you bro! This tuner is RPM North, pretty solid rep! They're in Plainview NY. I chose them because they have the flashing station- many others do not, and let's face it, who wants to have their ECU ripped out (or worse yet rip it out yourself if you're mechanically challenged like me ) and wait while you ship the ECU and sit on tacks hoping Fedex doesn't treat it like a Samsonite gorilla. I'll let you all know what happens. Viral has been ACE with me, I feel like a VIP with these guys. He has all my mods and the 93 octane factor down, waiting for the program to be sent Friday