[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

If BMW attempt to control dealer discounting in this way there is a danger that they will be seen to be 'rigging prices', which could be illegal.

I don't think that suppliers can legally prevent retailers from discounting and even selling at a loss if they wish.

All BMW can really do is address their incentive programme to ensure that dealers are not rewarded unduly for bulk discounting. This would potentially reduce the very large 16% discounts being offered by the brokers right now, but would not end discounting altogether.

The problem with this approach is that the discounting also reflects the economies of the marketplace. If BMW do not get there pricing right then they will lose market share to Audi and Mercedes.

You are right they are oin direct competition with Merc/Audi so the cost per month corporate lease has to be in line. This is a combination of list and residual value and hence a rebalance is required at both ends.

I am sure they cannot control prices and a dealer can sell for whatever they like in theory. But, they are approved BMW dealers and if certain dealers are not playing by the 'unsaid rules' they may loose their franchise.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

You are right they are oin direct competition with Merc/Audi so the cost per month corporate lease has to be in line. This is a combination of list and residual value and hence a rebalance is required at both ends.

I am sure they cannot control prices and a dealer can sell for whatever they like in theory. But, they are approved BMW dealers and if certain dealers are not playing by the 'unsaid rules' they may loose their franchise.

Don't forget though that the lease companies like Arval PHH buy at much bigger discounts than the brokers.

These discounts are already factored into their numbers.

I think that BMW would be pretty foolish to try to 'control' pricing, even of the levers used are pretty discreet.

On my reading the quote from BMW UK seemed to be simply saying that they were going to rethink their incentives so that the benefits of hitting turnover targets were less important to dealers than their margin.

This would be perfectly legal and would reduce the incentive to discount.

At the end of the day though, you can't fight economy of scale or stop someone 'buying' turnover.

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Don't forget though that the lease companies like Arval PHH buy at much bigger discounts than the brokers.

These discounts are already factored into their numbers.

I think that BMW would be pretty foolish to try to 'control' pricing, even of the levers used are pretty discreet.

On my reading the quote from BMW UK seemed to be simply saying that they were going to rethink their incentives so that the benefits of hitting turnover targets were less important to dealers than their margin.

This would be perfectly legal and would reduce the incentive to discount.

At the end of the day though, you can't fight economy of scale or stop someone 'buying' turnover.

You are right of course, market will prevail and volume is the name of the game in modern business of this type.

But the big groups like Sytner,Coopers and Stratstone have at least 30% +of the dealers between them and not hitting bonus targets I guess is not an option. Reduce the bonus and then they will have to make some money out of car sales rather than just giving them away.

It will be interesting in Q1 next yr. Might make a couple of calls to see how cheap someone will do me a Q1 car next yr. Got a quote on a 130i and it was 8% no trade in for next feb/march so still fair game out in the market. Not sure if they need the paperwork through by Dec 31st to be fair to the dealer.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

But the big groups like Sytner,Coopers and Stratstone have at least 30% +of the dealers between them and not hitting bonus targets I guess is not an option. Reduce the bonus and then they will have to make some money out of car sales rather than just giving them away

I think this is exactly how BMW will try to work it.

Having said that the dealers profit will always be his sale price, less the purchase price and the cost of sales.

In the case of online brokers the cost of sales is significantly reduced, because the dealer is selling a number of vehicles for a block discount, without the need to spend money on salesman and take up the time of their business managers etc.

That's always going to be attractive, because in the end the dealer needs turnover and cashflow to survive.

I'll find out if I buy a new car next year.

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

I think this is exactly how BMW will try to work it.

Having said that the dealers profit will always be his sale price, less the purchase price and the cost of sales.

In the case of online brokers the cost of sales is significantly reduced, because the dealer is selling a number of vehicles for a block discount, without the need to spend money on salesman and take up the time of their business managers etc.

That's always going to be attractive, because in the end the dealer needs turnover and cashflow to survive.

I'll find out if I buy a new car next year.

335i for you sir

[NFS]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

335i for you sir

It could happen, but only if I can sort out my 'negative equity'.

Anyway .. my dealer isn't chasing my business, which (I think) is because he has no interest in matching the online brokers prices.

I think the market is in 2 tiers right now .. as is the case with most retailing.

There is the traditional tier .. which is customer facing dealerships, with smarmy salesmen, cappucinos and shiny showrooms.

Then there is the online discount brokers - who are the motoring equivalent of the likes of ebuyer.co.uk

If anything, I think the online retailing is still in it's infancy and has space to expand further. If PC World and Tesco can do 'collect in store' discounts for online sales, then Sytner, Stratstone etc can do likewise.

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by needforspeed

It could happen, but only if I can sort out my 'negative equity'.

Anyway .. my dealer isn't chasing my business, which (I think) is because he has no interest in matching the online brokers prices.

I think the market is in 2 tiers right now .. as is the case with most retailing.

There is the traditional tier .. which is customer facing dealerships, with smarmy salesmen, cappucinos and shiny showrooms.

Then there is the online discount brokers - who are the motoring equivalent of the likes of ebuyer.co.uk

If anything, I think the online retailing is still in it's infancy and has space to expand further. If PC World and Tesco can do 'collect in store' discounts for online sales, then Sytner, Stratstone etc can do likewise.

Maybe your dealer has done their quota for the yr/or they know the car won't come to 2008 so are not over bothered at the mo.

What I would do is find out if there are any unsold 335i's on the way still for december (if there are any with appealing specs) then see how big a discount you can wangle of a dealer still looking to hit there target.

Bear in mind a Dec 07 car will be worth £1000 to £1500 less in the trade than a Jan 08 come resale time and factor in,but you should also get more for your car under the same conditions.

[REB330D]

I've just spent an hour or so with my local Stratstone dealer and the best he could offer me on a new 335D M Sport was 6% and wouldn't budge.

I quoted the online price and he reckons that the brokers almost certainly can't deliver at that price because the dealers have no allocation yet. He also reckons that you could be waiting a long time to get a car at online prices.

I called another nearby dealer who said he could beat Stratstone easily. I shall wait and see tomorrow when he calls me back.

Then I'll call another local dealer

[scotw]

Bear in mind a Dec 07 car will be worth £1000 to £1500 less in the trade than a Jan 08 come resale time and factor in,but you should also get more for your car under the same conditions.

What ? Are you seriously saying that a week's delivery can make that kind of difference? Seems daft to me, if its 36 months old when you trade it in, then that's how old it is, 22nd December and 3rd jan are pretty much the same.

Any figures or places to check this out? My car is due on the 18th December and I'll delay until 3rd Jan if we are talking about that kind of difference

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by REB330D

I've just spent an hour or so with my local Stratstone dealer and the best he could offer me on a new 335D M Sport was 6% and wouldn't budge.

I quoted the online price and he reckons that the brokers almost certainly can't deliver at that price because the dealers have no allocation yet. He also reckons that you could be waiting a long time to get a car at online prices.

I called another nearby dealer who said he could beat Stratstone easily. I shall wait and see tomorrow when he calls me back.

Then I'll call another local dealer

What are you looking for Coupe, Saloon, etc? and are you trading in with them because all that matters is the cost to swap if there is a trade iinvolved.

[Real Thing]

Originally Posted by scotw

What ? Are you seriously saying that a week's delivery can make that kind of difference? Seems daft to me, if its 36 months old when you trade it in, then that's how old it is, 22nd December and 3rd jan are pretty much the same.

Any figures or places to check this out? My car is due on the 18th December and I'll delay until 3rd Jan if we are talking about that kind of difference

I think that kind of difference would refer to selling within 12 Months If your keeping the Car for 3 Years a 57 2007 Car will be worth about £500-£750 less than a 57 2008 Car but you can usually get better deals December so it can balance it out in the long run

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by Real Thing

I think that kind of difference would refer to selling within 12 Months If your keeping the Car for 3 Years a 57 2007 Car will be worth about £500-£750 less than a 57 2008 Car but you can usually get better deals December to can balance it out in the long run

Spot on Real Thing

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by Real Thing

I think that kind of difference would refer to selling within 12 Months If your keeping the Car for 3 Years a 57 2007 Car will be worth about £500-£750 less than a 57 2008 Car but you can usually get better deals December so it can balance it out in the long run

Glasses guide has 4 price points per yr.

for example.

2007 Sept 57
2008 Jan 57
2008 Mar 08
2008 Jun 08

hence price diff between them.

[scotw]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

Glasses guide has 4 price points per yr.

for example.

2007 Sept 57
2008 Jan 57
2008 Mar 08
2008 Jun 08

hence price diff between them.

So is it worth waiting until Jan to get the car so it's reg'd as a Jan 08, or will that make little difference as a trade-in in 3 years?

[REB330D]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

What are you looking for Coupe, Saloon, etc? and are you trading in with them because all that matters is the cost to swap if there is a trade iinvolved.

Sorry, should have put E92 coupe in there and yes, I will be trading in my existing E90. It will be the 'cost to change' that I will be comparing but I would like to know the price of the new car and the trade-in value as well.

I also need to get a settlement figure from BMW Finance and determine the current value of my car.

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by REB330D

Sorry, should have put E92 coupe in there and yes, I will be trading in my existing E90. It will be the 'cost to change' that I will be comparing but I would like to know the price of the new car and the trade-in value as well.

I also need to get a settlement figure from BMW Finance and determine the current value of my car.

Good luck mate, there are 152 dealers out there and with a solid description of your trade in spec and condition they are only a phone call away.

[Real Thing]

Originally Posted by REB330D

Sorry, should have put E92 coupe in there and yes, I will be trading in my existing E90. It will be the 'cost to change' that I will be comparing but I would like to know the price of the new car and the trade-in value as well.

I also need to get a settlement figure from BMW Finance and determine the current value of my car.

I just trading a 57 335d M sport Coupe at Nick Whale (Warwick) http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/auc/car_d...WD72000PW59723
Good saving on list if you’re interested

[Gibbo]

Originally Posted by scotw

So is it worth waiting until Jan to get the car so it's reg'd as a Jan 08, or will that make little difference as a trade-in in 3 years?

Look at glasses guide diffence for a similar model E46 3 yr old and that will tell you an approximate price difference. Obviously it depends on the milage you do each yr but if it's like book 10 to 12k I reakon about £500 - £750. If you do 20k miles a year it will be a £300 to £500 at the end.

If you can wait and the dealer lets you it will make you better off in the long run. Chances are they have you in their numbers for this yrs registration to hit their bonus.

Enjoy your new car either way.

[scotw]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

Look at glasses guide diffence for a similar model E46 3 yr old and that will tell you an approximate price difference. Obviously it depends on the milage you do each yr but if it's like book 10 to 12k I reakon about £500 - £750. If you do 20k miles a year it will be a £300 to £500 at the end.

If you can wait and the dealer lets you it will make you better off in the long run. Chances are they have you in their numbers for this yrs registration to hit their bonus.

Enjoy your new car either way.

Thanks for the advice Gibbo I'll see if I can push it back, they did offer that when I ordered as my official delivery was Jan they said if it arrived late December, they could keep it until the 3rd.

[REB330D]

Originally Posted by Real Thing

I just trading a 57 335d M sport Coupe at Nick Whale (Warwick) http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/auc/car_d...WD72000PW59723
Good saving on list if you’re interested

Thanks for the link but I'm after a few more 'toys'. I intend to keep the car as it is probably the last time I will be able to afford one. Having just retired from the RAF, I have a 'bit' of spare cash that is burning a hole in my pocket and I want the car to be just right.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by bugsz

I do, but i was wondering you guys got of your car.

In regards to the pictures they are coming this Friday.

Bugsz, AKA Z.

Which Friday?

Dubious AKA Downright Suspicious

[Hotcoupe]

vienna Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsz
I do, but i was wondering you guys got of your car.
In regards to the pictures they are coming this Friday.
Bugsz, AKA Z.


Which Friday?
Dubious AKA Downright Suspicious

You sound doubtful vienna,I wonder why
I've seen the bugz collection by the way,it's impressive!