[Tucu2008]

Hi fellows,
I just bought a 335i coming previously from an Audi A3.
Something that intrigues me is the following:
Tuners such as Dinan have managed to squeeze merely 52 hp from a 3.0 straight six Twin turbo. Coming from the point of view that the stock car is already generating at the flywheel 332 hp. (384 – 332 = 52)
In my opinion that gain is really poor when comparing the gain that I had on my previous car.
APR – managed to extract 52hp and 100ft of tq out of an engine with two less cylinders and 1 less turbo as well as 1 less liter of displacement.
Could anybody tell me why that is?

[335iheLLraiseR]

Originally Posted by Tucu2008

Hi fellows,
I just bought a 335i coming previously from an Audi A3.
Something that intrigues me is the following:
Tuners such as Dinan have managed to squeeze merely 52 hp from a 3.0 straight six Twin turbo. Coming from the point of view that the stock car is already generating at the flywheel 332 hp. (384 – 332 = 52)
In my opinion that gain is really poor when comparing the gain that I had on my previous car.
APR – managed to extract 52hp and 100ft of tq out of an engine with two less cylinders and 1 less turbo as well as 1 less liter of displacement.
Could anybody tell me why that is?

because Dinan offers you a name to go along with your tune. their proprietary warranty also helps, not to mention the ease for those with warranty concerns when going to the dealer.

[335iheLLraiseR]

oh, i forgot, welcome to the board!

[Tucu2008]

Thanks 335iheLLraiseR,

But do you believe that we are going to see better gains with the "chip" only ? from any tuners company ?

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by Tucu2008

Hi fellows,
I just bought a 335i coming previously from an Audi A3.
Something that intrigues me is the following:
Tuners such as Dinan have managed to squeeze merely 52 hp from a 3.0 straight six Twin turbo. Coming from the point of view that the stock car is already generating at the flywheel 332 hp. (384 – 332 = 52)
In my opinion that gain is really poor when comparing the gain that I had on my previous car.
APR – managed to extract 52hp and 100ft of tq out of an engine with two less cylinders and 1 less turbo as well as 1 less liter of displacement.
Could anybody tell me why that is?

So in other words you had one big turbo? A 4 cylinder with a big turbo equals boost lag till like 4-5k rpms and then a ton of boost to make your power. Anyone can slam 20 pounds into a 4 cylinder and make big power.

The 335 runs off tiny turbos that combined probably put out less air than your one big turbo. Also an aftermarket tuned engine will always make more power than a factory tuned engine of the same caliber. The auto makers will build in very big safety margins where as tuner companys don't (except ones like dinan who have to warranty their stuff)


It would be easy to get a lot more power out of this engine with a bigger turbo all you have to do is look at the specs 3 litre 11.3:1 direct injection, that's really all you need to know to know the potential of an engine (discounting the possibility of it not being able to take the power) Most cars nowadays have adequately sized valves and the only remaining limitations are fueling intake and exhaust.

[Tucu2008]

I mean my old car was stock, no physical modification to the engine. The turbo was OEM never relpaced. The Compression ratio: 10:03:01.
The car comes stock with no power "200hp" but also with no turbo lag.
I did modifications in steps first add the APR programing (52hp), second the exhaust (20hp) plus K&N intake (18hp), and then high flow fuel pump (25hp)
At the end I was turning at the flywheel 315hp and 381 ft/pounds.
I agree that the 4 cylinders may have a bigger OEM turbo then the 335i.
But is it enough to make that big of a difference ? all arround in parts alone I spent on my car $3,000 and had some good gains.
Isnt a bit stiff to spend $2,000 just on ECU re flashing ? for only 52hp ?

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by Tucu2008

I mean my old car was stock, no physical modification to the engine. The turbo was OEM never relpaced. The Compression ratio: 10:03:01.
The car comes stock with no power "200hp" but also with no turbo lag.
I did modifications in steps first add the APR programing (52hp), second the exhaust (20hp) plus K&N intake (18hp), and then high flow fuel pump (25hp)
At the end I was turning at the flywheel 315hp and 381 ft/pounds.
I agree that the 4 cylinders may have a bigger OEM turbo then the 335i.
But is it enough to make that big of a difference ? all arround in parts alone I spent on my car $3,000 and had some good gains.
Isnt a bit stiff to spend $2,000 just on ECU re flashing ? for only 52hp ?

LOL first off what car was this. Second off

Originally Posted by Tucu2008

I did modifications in steps first add the APR programing (52hp), second the exhaust (20hp) plus K&N intake (18hp), and then high flow fuel pump (25hp)
At the end I was turning at the flywheel 315hp and 381 ft/pounds.?

now I see what's going on, ever take this car to the dyno

[Andrew@ET]

agree ^^^


never add up hp from what they claim.

[Tucu2008]

o-cha,

I guess we may not count hp then the way tuners suggest.

Going back to the point,

Why a four cylinders 2.0L with a compression ratio 10:03:01 have the same gain as a 3.0L straight six twin turbo with a compression ratio 11.3.1 ?

I also kept my warranty with the APR software, the same way Dinan is suggesting.

[Tucu2008]

Feel curious ?

Visit the APR website

http://www.goapr.com/Audi/products/e...rade_8pa3.html

[O-cha]

I'm not curious at all, you THINK you have a car that has the same gain as the N54. In reality you just added up the quoted, most likely crank, hp numbers. Which is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Simple as that.

You're probably use to this moronic type of calculation and are going through shock at a community that quotes wheel figures from actual dynos.





FYI the car you described likely makes MAYBE 260 whp while the 335s are making around 350 with just a tune, that's about the same HP/displacement and we're still very early into the engine.


You asked how a 2.0 litre with 10.3:1 could possibly be gaining more than the 3 litre 11.3:1 N54 and you answered your own question with your skepticism, it can't and won't.

[Tucu2008]

Dude are u mad with life itself ?? I mean I just stated that " we may not count hp the way tuners suggest"

I am not saying one engine is better than the other one. I was just impressed when I saw the same gains on Dinan's webpage.

Coming from the point of view that Dinan used a dyno which shows that the 335i has 332 flywheel hp.

So I guess you are saying then that Dinan used not an actual dyno and is not providing real figures.

i did not make the numbers, I just made the math with the numbers provided by the tuners.

So if you could please let me know where is Dinan missing info or misleading the customers would be great.

At the en isnt that why this communities were created ?

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by Tucu2008

I am not saying one engine is better than the other one. I was just impressed when I saw the same gains on Dinan's webpage.

You said:

Originally Posted by Tucu2008

In my opinion that gain is really poor when comparing the gain that I had on my previous car.
APR – managed to extract 52hp and 100ft of tq out of an engine with two less cylinders and 1 less turbo as well as 1 less liter of displacement.
Could anybody tell me why that is?

Originally Posted by Tucu2008

Going back to the point,

Why a four cylinders 2.0L with a compression ratio 10:03:01 have the same gain as a 3.0L straight six twin turbo with a compression ratio 11.3.1 ?

I have simply informed you that your wrong is all.

[Tucu2008]

ok after that great information,

Could anyone in case you are not able to answer the question on the quote above, let me know if "Dinan missing info or misleading the customers would be great."

Taking in context all that was mentioned.

I mean instead of going to the trouble of calling people dumb, just be clever and educated to answer with your superior knowledge the questions which are posted..

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by Tucu2008

ok after that great information,

Could anyone in case you are not able to answer the question on the quote above, let me know if "Dinan missing info or misleading the customers would be great."

Taking in context all that was mentioned.

I mean instead of going to the trouble of calling people dumb, just be clever and educated to answer with your superior knowledge the questions which are posted..

WTF are you talking about, your question makes no sense in the first place. The quotes are not out of context, the title of the thread is "little gain" FFS. Just wow.