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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing / Warranty > OIL SLUDGE and oill change warning



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      06-14-2011, 04:20 PM   #89
cssnms
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Confucius say, The wise speak when they have something to say,
the fools speak when they have to say something
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      06-14-2011, 05:46 PM   #90
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Confucius say, The wise speak when they have something to say,
the fools speak when they have to say something
Or make clappy faces...
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      06-14-2011, 05:48 PM   #91
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Or make clappy faces...
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      06-14-2011, 06:28 PM   #92
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Fine Sir, I have a complete auto shop at my house with a Rotary SPO A10 auto lift and over $7,000 worth of tools. I've been working on cars since I was 12 years old. I can change the oil in my car every day if I wanted to. An oil change for me costs $68 for the oil change kit and about an hour's labor of my time (less than what you probably spend taking and picking your car up for an oil change).

All businesses try maximize revenue and minimize costs, and the best revenue generation for an automobile company is to keep their products on the road as long as possible to maximize the population of vehicles to sell highly profitable repair and maintenance parts, and sell repair services for (for which the development costs have long been amortized). It is a business model BMW has followed for a long time. It is why you can still get new OEM parts for BMWs that go back 30 some odd years, it's why BMW has a division called Mobile Tradition to help owners rebuild classic BMWs and make parts for old cars that the parts have been discontinued.

Since you are familiar with their books, you surely must know BMW is a highly profitable car company, and recognized as such by its peers in the automotive industry. Why would BMW risk its reputation it has fought so long and hard for, at great expense, for the last 40 years, to now make their cars obsolete by default because they want to short change the customer on two oil changes and have engines prematurely die due to oil sludging issues? It makes no business sense. Please don't insult my intelligence (having sold manufactured products and integrated systems to customers for the past 25 years) that BMW's business model is to screw the customer and make them buy a new $50K car every 100,000 miles. If the car needs five oil changes during the 50,000 mile warranty instead of three, then BMW would up the retail price of the car by $200 to cover the cost. It wouldn't make their cars any less desirable or less price competitive with the competition.

I stand by my previous assessment; if you have no intellegence, it can't be insulted...
Damnit, there you go trying to inject logic into this forum. Don't you know that is an impossible task.
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      06-14-2011, 07:06 PM   #93
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Federal Law Prohibits New Car Dealers From Implying Or Denying Warranty Service Because Routine Scheduled Maintenance Was Performed At An Independant Repair Facility

Magnusen Moss Act (1975)
Title 15-chapter 50-section 2301-2312
WORD!!!!
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      06-14-2011, 08:13 PM   #94
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WORD!!!!
And I said that 50 posts ago. It also says that in the owner's manual that came with the car.

I'll say it again, if the dealer and BMWNA are refusing to accept records from an indy shop showing that a required oil change was done at the proper time/mileage using approved fluids and filters, then there is a lot more to this story that we don't know about.

I suspect that he either has no records or that his records show that unapproved fluids and/or filters were used. There is also that prior history with the dealer that we don't know about.
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      06-14-2011, 08:23 PM   #95
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WORD!!!!
I think the purpose of that act was to make warranties more easily understood and enforceable. I think it's misunderstood over and over on this forum. The general idea is there, but it's totally misquoted and taken literally, wrong. In practice, don't BMW dealerships routinely deny warranty repairs on cars that were only serviced by they themselves?
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      06-14-2011, 09:23 PM   #96
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I think the purpose of that act was to make warranties more easily understood and enforceable. I think it's misunderstood over and over on this forum. The general idea is there, but it's totally misquoted and taken literally, wrong. In practice, don't BMW dealerships routinely deny warranty repairs on cars that were only serviced by they themselves?
No, dealerships do not normally refuse warranty service as long as the owner can show that maintenance was done on time using approved parts and fluids. Warranty service is only refused if the maintenance was done wrong, not done, or improper parts/fluids were used.

I know of no case where warranty service was denied due to maintenance being done either by the owner or by an indy as long as records and receipts showing parts/fluids are kept.
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      06-15-2011, 05:05 AM   #97
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No, dealerships do not normally refuse warranty service as long as the owner can show that maintenance was done on time using approved parts and fluids. Warranty service is only refused if the maintenance was done wrong, not done, or improper parts/fluids were used.

I know of no case where warranty service was denied due to maintenance being done either by the owner or by an indy as long as records and receipts showing parts/fluids are kept.
As it has been stated before, the car is out of warranty anyway, so even if BMW did change the oil on schedule the OP is SOL anyway. Considering the PIA he's been to BMW, some sort of post-warranty good-will repair isn't going to happen.

Most car owner's manuals I have read have statements in them that basically say if the owner performs his own maintenance and there is a warranty issue related to service/maintenance, the owner needs to provide documentation of the date, mileage, and what parts were used to perform the maintenance AND that the owner must demonstrate he has the skills to perform the service tasks.

I haven't read the terms and conditions of the BMW "free maintenance" plan, but I wonder if there is language in the T&C's that by accepting the plan you waive your rights under the Magnusson Moss Act and BMW can deny warranty claims due to lack of approved maintenance. Just a thought.

Last edited by ENINTY; 06-15-2011 at 05:12 AM.
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      06-15-2011, 05:06 AM   #98
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Damnit, there you go trying to inject logic into this forum. Don't you know that is an impossible task.
Hey, I'm Irish; I have a hard head. Can't help it.
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      06-15-2011, 05:38 AM   #99
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I'm still trying to get a handle on "my dealer refused service due to my issues with them".

Tom
Translation-"I didn't take off my mods before going in for service."
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      06-15-2011, 05:40 AM   #100
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Do many people really change more often than BMW recommends? Unless you're tracking isn't that a waste.
7.5 k for me. I go to the dearler to buy the oil and filter too.
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      06-15-2011, 08:29 AM   #101
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Translation-"I didn't take off my mods before going in for service."
Unlikely. There is more to it.

What mods would cause a dealer to refuse an oil change?
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      06-15-2011, 09:37 AM   #102
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Translation-"I didn't take off my mods before going in for service."
Only if you put his lawsuit, multiple forum diatribes, anti BMW website, etc., into the category of "mods".

Tom
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      06-15-2011, 09:48 AM   #103
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Lord
MB BMW knew I had the oil changed at 16K miles ( when it was due to be changed )
MB BMW has been changing the oil when the computer said to change it with the maintenance.
The oil was just changed 4k miles ago and now the engine has failed due to sludge that just now happened ?
BMWNA said I voided the warranty by not having the oil changed at 16K miles, now that I have given them proof they say they do not honor oil changes that are NOT done by BMW.

Sorry to hear the trouble you are going thru. I used to go to MB BMW too. Those dumb assess dont know shit, anytime i took my car there i returned back for re-do.
They could not put a frigging plug in to a tire right. Now i take it to an indy shop where i never returned for re-do after any service.
We all know what happens when warranty runs out.. I may be who had bad experience with the dealer but nothing like a honest repair shop; either a dealer or an indy shop.
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      06-20-2011, 01:44 PM   #104
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Funny, I got the car back ( more on that later ) but this is what my cap looks like. Funny it did not look like that a few months ago



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      06-20-2011, 01:45 PM   #105
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^ that does not look good at all
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      06-23-2011, 01:31 PM   #106
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Interesting, I got the car back, it has no oil in it, kind of hard to send some oil out to get analyzed when there is none.
Also how does the cap and engine look like that when the oil was just changed 3K miles ago.
I am having a hard time believing they even changed the oil last time.
The inspection done by BMWNA was looking in the cap, nothing else
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      06-23-2011, 09:43 PM   #107
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That looks like my 2000 E46, 170K only BMW scheduled oil changes.

No engine issues, but my cap looked exactly as yours does. I've since switched to MOTUL 8100 XMaxx 5w-30 BMW LL-01 spec and its now cleaned up dramatically!
The MOTUL is a 100% ester base oil and cleans great!
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      06-23-2011, 09:47 PM   #108
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That looks like Willie Wonka's car, they put chocolate pudden in there.

Seriously, that is not right. I can't see that much sludge being built up in 3,000 miles. Something else is wrong with that engine.
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      06-25-2011, 03:10 PM   #109
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That looks like Willie Wonka's car, they put chocolate pudden in there.

Seriously, that is not right. I can't see that much sludge being built up in 3,000 miles. Something else is wrong with that engine.
My thoughts exactly, they dropped the ball last time they said theu changed the oil.
It's ok, depositions start in a week and I plan to wait it out for a long public court case.
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      11-23-2011, 08:21 PM   #110
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