[ALPANDY]

I am thinking about getting a new set of wheels for my 330d and putting some winters on the existing m sport alloys but are they really worth it? I mean are they a miracle cure to winter weather or will my car still have to remain locked away in the garage in severe weather?

[Subzero2003]

Snow = awesome
Average winter weather (3-6c, drizzly etc) = Get some UHP summer Tyree (CSC5, Goodyear Assymmetric 2 etc etc)

[briers]

No, dont put summers on.

You will get a sprinkling of people who have been driving for the past 100 years through the very harshest winters with no special tyres.

However, in my experience i couldn't even get my car moving on an almost flat surface on 19" summers.

The past 2 years I've put vred wintrac extremes on some spare alloys and I've had no issues getting anywhere, including un-passable hills by 99% of other cars. Just yesterday i got up a hill that is locally known to be a hill to avoid when it snows, simply because the hill starts right after a turning so you can't take a run up. I purposely took that route to see what happened. I drove up without any wheel slip.

Are they worth it? Only if you use your car a lot and drive roads that are notoriously dangerous in wintry conditions. I for example don't do a lot of mileage but i do have to drive through the heart of the mid welsh mountains occasionally and have to get to important meetings.

The price of the winters is irrelevant, i couldn't put a price on not being stranded in the horrible cold weather. Plus you re-coupe most of the purchase price on re-sale, have the added safety when you need it and save on the wear rate of the expensive summers.

Having said that, this subject has been done to death

[ALPANDY]

Originally Posted by Subzero2003

Snow = awesome
Average winter weather (3-6c, drizzly etc) = Get some UHP summer Tyree (CSC5, Goodyear Assymmetric 2 etc etc)

So in actual fact they only really come into their own in snow, which at the most is a couple of weeks per year. Don't know wheteher it'd be worth my while then as I have access to another vehicle.

[wayne71]

Not quite Andy, I wouldn't take much notice of subzero on this subject tbh.

http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/.../winter-tyres/

[doughboy]

Winters are fabulous if you need the car all the time, anything less than 10deg and especially in the cold/wet they are awesome, in the snow and ice they seem to defy physics.

All this when your summers have long turned into oiled granite blocks.

OP you have access to another vehicle? Me to, I've got a little van for work now, so my winters are redundant, the car just stays at home unless the weather is OK.

[335iLondon]

Im in the use something else camp.
Nipping around in proper snow over the weekend in a light fwd hatchback (Mazda 2).
Having plenty of fun in the process.

Winters or another car. RWD on summers is not to be used on the snow.

[Jules59]

ALPANDY
Dont forget that the standard RFTs that BMW hand out are exceptionally bad in winter. They are not called summer tyres for nothing. In Germany they have to be exchanged for proper winter tyres.

[HighlandPete]

Don't forget cold weather tyres also offer much better traction and braking on black ice. I know, been saved from the ditch with them, when a car lost control in front of me on black ice.

We haven't had so much snow this winter, did have over 6" in one go, back in December, lasted for a week. Also had several small amounts, where driving was also 'enhanced' by the winter tyres.

But we have had long periods under 4C, and what I notice most of all in these conditions, whether wet or dry, the car is always the same to drive. Road feel is the same from the off. If on summer tyres at the same sort of temperatures, there is always that warm up period that is needed to get the car working on the road. Not so with winter tyres, even shortish trips, say 12 miles, are just the same as with a warm summer tyre. For me that is one major advantage, as a lot of my trips are in the 12 mile range.

HighlandPete

[spirocheter]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Don't forget cold weather tyres also offer much better traction and braking on black ice. I know, been saved from the ditch with them, when a car lost control in front of me on black ice.

We haven't had so much snow this winter, did have over 6" in one go, back in December, lasted for a week. Also had several small amounts, where driving was also 'enhanced' by the winter tyres.

But we have had long periods under 4C, and what I notice most of all in these conditions, whether wet or dry, the car is always the same to drive. Road feel is the same from the off. If on summer tyres at the same sort of temperatures, there is always that warm up period that is needed to get the car working on the road. Not so with winter tyres, even shortish trips, say 12 miles, are just the same as with a warm summer tyre. For me that is one major advantage, as a lot of my trips are in the 12 mile range.

HighlandPete

That's a very good point regarding short trips. I've been running winter tyres on both of our cars for two years now. Last year through the very harsh winter they were a revelation. We live on a small estate served by a private road which nobody else clears but me. Before winters I'd have to spend hours clearing the drive to get off the flat surface easily when it had snowed / thawed, then iced over. Now, not a problem whatever the conditions.

There are certainly many days in the West Midlands between November and April where temperatures are far greater than 7 degrees and I miss the summer tyres, my Michelin PS2 ZPs clearly outperform my Falken 452s in those conditions and probably in temperatures as low as four degrees, as Highland Pete says, once warmed at least (which takes a good few miles). However, when the temperature is closer to zero and below zero, the winter tyres really bite and perform noticeably better in dry or wet. The difference if there is any ice or snow on the road is staggering - so much so, you feel people driving cars, particularly rear wheel drive, without winter tyres, become your main threat.

The pros most certainly outweigh the cons, if you place safety as your primary concern. I'm sure most people would feel the need to use there cars at some point during snow or very cold weather, when they might be best staying at home.

[rich1068]

This could have gone in any of the winter tyre threads but the other thing to keep in mind (and has already been touched on) is what you use the car for. If I just drove to work, parked up for the day and then drove home I probably wouldn't have bothered with winters. In fact I'd probably be making the 'my summers are good enough' comments too. As it is I'm in my car most of the day and need to be mobile whatever the weather.

[magic77]

well after dropping my 320D for service (has eurowinters on ) and getting into a 118D with summers all I have to say is what a difference.

From being able to drive in normal with the winters around when its freezing and icy to basically having to half my speed and slow everything down in the 118 even at 30mph

We still have bit of ice on some roads and general slush around 0 -1C and the difference is like ying and yang. All actions have to be gentler and more cautious I basically miss the winters. I think unless you do such drastic switch its hard to realize how much better the winter tyres work

Makes me realise how good winters really are not just in snow.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Or more likely how poor those summer tyres were when cold.
I don't doubt that tyres designed for use in snow are going to be night and day better that summer tyres on snow...but the rest of the time there are summer tyres like the Michelin PSS which show little drop off in performance at low temperature even under high load.

[Laney]

I've never used winter tyres on any car and I've always managed to get anywhere I need to in any weather conditions. My drive way has a fairly steep gradient for me to get up when leaving the house and I just clear the drive of snow and have no problems.

I don't dispute the benefits of winter tyres but considering the cost involved I don't personally see a benefit. I think if I lived in the back of beyond and had to do many miles on back roads then I'd change my mind.

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by Laney

I don't dispute the benefits of winter tyres but considering the cost involved I don't personally see a benefit.

Point taken, but..

If you're keeping the car a few years, then it just makes your summer tyres last twice as long (and keeps the harshest weather off your nice summer rims), so the only real cost is the second set of wheels, which you can always sell on in the end. So maybe a couple of hundred quid depreciation of some REP rims over 3 years at most.

Its proven that summers under normal use wear much more in cold weather as they become hard and 'brittle' below 7deg C, whereas the winters seem to go on for ever, mine have done aout 20K, 2 full winters and TBH they look like new.


The main benefit I found that winters meant I could ENJOY the car in bad weather (3 months a year) instead of pussy footing around trying not to crash into eveything or worrying about getting stuck on tiny gradients (or steep cambers been much worse for RWD cars)

£200 for 3 years of that is worth my money defo.

...but as said, if you have another car / van then just use that instead!

BTW our neighbours got stuck in their X5 this morning on the frozen snow, virtually zero gradient and stuck, I sailed round them in the van, then stopped to give them a push!

[magic77]

I agree on the cost but then its a long term thing. I change tyres annually on rear and fronts every two years. Since summers wear out quicker with lower temps as rubber gets hard and by running two sets over 1 year each set will last me longer so simply spending same amount just in larger chunks less often. That for a added sefety aspect overall I can live with.

My commute can be anything from a 1 min walk to the office in the back of the house to a 4 hour drive to Leeds or Sheffield or further and its the case of got there fine but getting back if it snows etc which I had to do and been stuck.

If your commute / daily drive is always local and you can do alternative methods when it snows or is extremely icy / cold then argument is not to bother and resonably valid in some opinions.

However when you have crazy commutes / drive around country where you can be thought out away from home. (for example friend slept in the car as was stranded when we had the floods, road cut off due to flooding around it) Then a set of tyres for that season makes sense. Then really apart from set of rims you are still spending same on tyres and end of the day rims can be resold or reused car to car.

IMO in such situation its crazy not to.

[Subzero2003]

Originally Posted by wayne71

Not quite Andy, I wouldn't take much notice of subzero on this subject tbh.

http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/.../winter-tyres/

But he should listen to you, when the very article you linked him to says:

But these severe cold spells are unusual. For the majority of UK urban-dwellers driving in normal daytime winter conditions, it's harder to justify the expense and hassle of fitting winter tyres.

Many people on here fitted their tyres at the end of October/Early Nov - when the daytime temperatures were often 13-15c still (with low's of about 5-6c)!! This will not only be ripping the winter tyres to shreds, but will also mean that the grip and feel they provide is utterly LOLworthy. It's only since Mid January that we've actually had weather that falls into the optimum range of winter tyres.

Also, many winter tyre tests choose the best winter tyres money can buy to test. Continental Winter Contacts, Michelin Whatevers, Pirelli Sopo somethings. These tyres are incredibly expensive. Most people won't go for these, most will go for the "budget" (Read: crap) winter tyres or mid range ones.

Like i said, if the road has snow on it - winter tyres are your best friend (if you even need to venture out on the road when there is snow on it?! I try to leave my car at home if it snows!). If the road doesn't (or is dry, like it has been a lot of this winter) then save yourself £1000, having to store your old wheels, and having to change them again come March time.

We had 6 inches of snow here on Saturday evening. By Sunday lunchtime the roads were 95% clear with just a bit of slush in the roads. By Monday morning the roads around me (and i live in the middle of no where and drive on country roads) were completely clear. Most people with winter tyres on here were wetting themselves with excitement when it snowed on Saturday because it meant for the first time in 3 months of having them fitted, they'd actually be able to exploit their potential. Many of them went out on meaningless drives in the snow just so they could use their snow tyres. As you can see, well worth the £800.

In 5c wet conditions, a quality UHP (Note - "Quality" = CSC5P's, Assymmetric 2's, Pilot Sport 3's - NOT Falken 452s) you will have absolutely no trouble and will grip just fine.

However, if you live in the Highlands of Scotland and have snow every other week as well as -5c most evenings, then winter tyres will probably be worth the £800-1000 outlay.

[HighlandPete]

I also agree costs are minimal, if you are keeping the car a few years.

Another observation on the cost thinking... the amount of folks who will upgrade the summer wheels/tyres, new or used cars, which upgrades are often every expensive and totally unnecessary, even spoil a car's dynamics. But winter tyres are not worth spending money on.

HighlandPete

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by Subzero2003

In 5c wet conditions, a quality UHP (Note - "Quality" = CSC5P's, Assymmetric 2's, Pilot Sport 3's - NOT Falken 452s) you will have absolutely no trouble and will grip just fine.

Just 'fine' maybe (i.e just bearable), but still inconsistently with little or no progression to slip and take for ever to warm up (if at all pottering in traffic).

I have CSC3's which are just as high end as the types you mention, and just won the EVO tyre test last month.

They are AWFUL in 5deg wet, not just rain wet, but winter wet with salt and that oily film that seems to cover the roads in winter.

They give very little confidence at all, break away with no warning and with only the slightest provocation, just trying to pull onto a busy roundabout is hard work.

Just 'fine' maybe but I prefer to not face such a compromise for a quarter of the year when a set of winters puts the 'summer' back into winter driving.

[magic77]

Originally Posted by doughboy

Just 'fine' maybe (i.e just bearable), but still inconsistently with little or no progression to slip and take for ever to warm up (if at all pottering in traffic).

I have CSC3's which are just as high end as the types you mention, and just won the EVO tyre test last month.

They are AWFUL in 5deg wet, not just rain wet, but winter wet with salt and that oily film that seems to cover the roads in winter.

They give very little confidence at all, break away with no warning and with only the slightest provocation, just trying to pull onto a busy roundabout is hard work.

Just 'fine' maybe but I prefer to not face such a compromise for a quarter of the year when a set of winters puts the 'summer' back into winter driving.

Totally agree just went from Contis to Eurowinters as remember last year how slippery the contis where and a pain once temps dropped and it all got icy / slippery with that horid film.

[davyk31]

Maybe just maybe Subzero some of those people who you assumed were out on pointless drives in the snow just to justify the money they spent were actually out on essential trips, some may even have been going to work and didn't have an option just to decide not to drive the car. Bit of an unrealistic generalisation in attempt to persuade others you are right.

As said many times, some people can afford and justify the expense or NEED to fit the tyres to ensure they are always mobile. Others do not and decide not to fit winters.
End of ..........

[magic77]

Originally Posted by davyk31

Maybe just maybe Subzero some of those people who you assumed were out on pointless drives in the snow just to justify the money they spent were actually out on essential trips, some may even have been going to work and didn't have an option just to decide not to drive the car. Bit of an unrealistic generalisation in attempt to persuade others you are right.

As said many times, some people can afford and justify the expense or NEED to fit the tyres to ensure they are always mobile. Others do not and decide not to fit winters.
End of ..........

well said that man !!!!!