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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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MotorTrend 335i vs C350 vs ATS
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12-05-2012, 08:31 AM | #23 | |
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I couldnt care any less what direction BMW is going. |
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12-05-2012, 08:36 AM | #24 |
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Was wondering what we would (335 drivers) think about the ATS...
Seems like an all around best bang for your buck is the cadillac...to bad they didn't put an ellis in there. $49k for a cadillac that isn't on air suspension --- no thanks. |
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12-05-2012, 08:53 AM | #25 |
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I think it will take a while for people, especially young people, to get past the "Cadillac" name. If they do....I bet it will go crazy. It once was the "BMW" (perceived prestige) of the car business.
Last edited by 335BBS; 12-05-2012 at 08:59 AM.. |
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12-05-2012, 09:15 AM | #26 | |
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as for the OP, after driving a new F30 328i, the steering does feel completely numb. this is dangerous, and we can only hope BMW is not trying to go the way of mercedes or lexus.
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Last edited by Cobra351; 12-05-2012 at 09:25 AM.. |
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12-05-2012, 09:26 AM | #27 | |
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Having said that........the 4 series coupe could be the best looking car I have ever seen. |
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12-05-2012, 09:36 AM | #28 | |
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I've been into caddys for a while, the younger kids are into them -- its just that the younger kids with money dont delve into forums that much. The prev gen cts had only one problem -- wheel hop, if I were to look for a 2nd car at this point, I'd get one. Only issue with caddys has been the body styling..and interior. The cost of a luxury car and the feel of a rental. |
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12-05-2012, 09:39 AM | #29 | |
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don't get me wrong- i love the new audis. it is the only other manufacturer that i would consider switching over to if bmw drops the ball completely.
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12-05-2012, 09:53 AM | #30 | |
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They're small engines relative to their displacement. OHV and cam in block helps reduce the overall dimensions. It also helps to keep wieght down. There's a new gen coming out soon that includes direct injection and variable valve timing. Cadillac may hold off on puting it in the ATS due space restrictions, though it's possible it could be made to fit. There are Fiero's running around with LS1 engines. Likely it's the engine's weight keeping it out. They're keen on keeping overall weight down and having a 50/50 distribution in this car. That said, it doesn't seem overly heavy. I think GM lists an LS3 7.0L engine at around 418 lbs out of a crate. BMW lists the N52 at 161 kg, which is 355 lbs. It's tough to do an apples to apples comparison though. One other factor may be the fact that greater power delivery demands upgrades to other parts of the car. The differential, transmission, suspension, tires, etc. all need to be able to handle the increased power. This in turn increases the overall weight of the car. Forced induction and direct injection V6's now have the same power as V8 small blocks of just 10 years ago. GM may surprise everyone later, but I'd guess that we won't see a V8 in an ATS. Last edited by Wrngway; 12-05-2012 at 10:12 AM.. |
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12-05-2012, 10:51 AM | #31 |
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12-05-2012, 10:59 AM | #32 |
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People don't even notice Audis up here. If you drive a 320 BMW you are labelled. I had a silver (so mirrors wouldnt stand out) B7 S4 that I debadged. Most couldnt tell it from a normal A4. THATS under the radar.
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12-05-2012, 12:52 PM | #33 |
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I would be pleasantly surprised if the ATS does well. It would suggest to me that branding is less important and that enthusiast-oriented chassis tuning can sell cars, which can be a good sign for the future of the enthusiast car market.
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12-05-2012, 01:47 PM | #34 | |
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out of 4, I would buy S4 and call it a day |
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12-05-2012, 04:44 PM | #35 | |
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shit, why not make a ATS-R with a ZR1 motor in that hoe. |
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12-05-2012, 04:50 PM | #37 |
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I don't care much about the name, it's the ugliness of the Cadillac styling that turns me off. That's the main reason why BMWs and Audis are my favorite manufacturers.
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12-05-2012, 05:24 PM | #38 |
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I'm not reading Motortrend again... With this article they shot their own foot.
I have a substantial amount of experience with BMW and MB. I was excited that Cadillac might finally release a decent car... So I went to my closest Cadillac dealership several weeks ago to see the ATS and let me tell you, we are LIGHTYEARS away from the Germans unfortunately. The rear seats are unusable, the truck is useless for a sedan, the center console continues Cadillac cheap plastic "fancy" looking electronics. There is a feel of CHEAP in the car everywhere, even the steering wheel is too skinny and trimmed with the best plastic Detroit has to offer (crap). So it doesn't matter if they managed to have 0.01g more than the others, I wouldn't even think about the ATS compared to competitors. When you are buying a sedan you can't make so many compromises to live with daily, why would you when you can get a 3-series of C-Class for the same price? How can Motortrend, supposedly non-bias car testers, crown the ATS as the winner when such BASIC things are wrong: a shity outdated automatic gearbox and even worst manual box (really? In a SPORTS sedan?), a trunk the size of a Honda fit and basically unusable rear seats if the front passengers are not midgets. I hope Motortrend got a bribe from GM, because if not then they are truly idiots. If you read all these glamourous things about the ATS, all I ask before you reply is that you do the same thing I did and inspect the car in person. I was very disappointed just by sitting, inspecting it, and playing with the electronics and buttons. So sad, but so far from coming close to a 3 or C. The quality is just not there. |
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12-05-2012, 05:38 PM | #39 | |
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12-05-2012, 05:39 PM | #40 |
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12-05-2012, 05:45 PM | #41 |
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Well mostly when it comes to what you stated about the quality of the materials. If anything the F30 feels a bit cheap compared to the outgoing model and I was actually amazed how well the ATS is put together on the inside. One thing I do not like about the ATS is the instrument cluster, otherwise it is a step up from the F30 IMO.
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12-05-2012, 06:31 PM | #42 |
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Yeah but, the "as tested price" I cant really consider because its mostly just options, I'm sure you could have it either way based on the boxes you check when ordering. Its not going to change engine/drivetrain/quality, which is basically what they are comparing.
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12-06-2012, 05:50 AM | #43 |
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Problem is on this forum is people are comparing the at to the e90 not the f30. You have to ask this question on the f30 board. In comparing the f30-ats-c class. Id take the c class. The f30 is nothing special to me. The ats is dead ugly. The c class wasn't the sportiest in the past, but out of the newer ones its not that bad and it looks nice
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12-06-2012, 09:42 AM | #44 |
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I'm not sure what Cadillac's marketing strategy is for the ATS but the CTS has been very successful as a more modern, European like Cadillac. I expect the ATS market will be similar and will fill in when the next CTS moves upscale. There will be some conquest sales vs the German competition as well. For years there has been a void in US offerings in this class of car and the ATS is a great clean sheet effort from Cadillac. I don't see the true enthusiast buying this car unless they can accept the AT, V6 version at this time. If GM improves the turbo 4 and it's MT then others like myself will be more open to this model.
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