aFe Intake question

AlpineSwift · 03-31-2011, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woosolow

PRO 5R is blue in color.... oiled filter... greater performance

Yeah...right...That's why mine lost so much friggin power with this element and surged like a MOFO.

urnuts · 03-31-2011, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woosolow

Can you further explain what u mean by "huge power loss"?

I am using aFe intake with bmw performance exhaust, everything ran smooth and no power loss as u mentioned...!

Me, as well.
This whole thing surprises me.
My PE hasn't been installed- probably next week due to 12" of snow due tonight

but even with the oem exhaust, I never noticed a loss of power with the AFE.
Maybe I'm overly simplistic but...... I always thought more air is better. And with the PE I would hope to complete the equation.

woosolow · 03-31-2011, 08:17 PM

absolutely! high 5...

i dont know wat's wrong w/ them?! and they cannot clarify what is power loss means?! oh well

Quote:

Originally Posted by urnuts

Me, as well.
This whole thing surprises me.
My PE hasn't been installed- probably next week due to 12" of snow due tonight

but even with the oem exhaust, I never noticed a loss of power with the AFE.
Maybe I'm overly simplistic but...... I always thought more air is better. And with the PE I would hope to complete the equation.

spoiler · 03-31-2011, 11:03 PM

have my AFE for about 8 months and a really like it, i dont have power loss like you said, not expecting for you to believe me. im a happy AFE guy. good for me what ever... bla bla bla

hwa786 · 03-31-2011, 11:45 PM

alright guys, im soo damn confused lol

woosolow · 03-31-2011, 11:51 PM

LOL~ oh well... jus get it and try... then install PE as well

all set...... go!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hwa786

alright guys, im soo damn confused lol

AlpineSwift · 04-01-2011, 12:19 AM

The aFe is really a hit or miss. You either get it right or get screwed. Unfortunately, I've been screwed.

Delta0311 · 04-01-2011, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlpineSwift

The aFe is really a hit or miss. You either get it right or get screwed. Unfortunately, I've been screwed.

I used to think like some of the above posters but for the most part AFE is a huge miss. Problem with AFE is the heatsoak that happens at low speeds, especially on take off. At low speeds the intake is pulling hot air from around the engine bay and there is no way to avoid this. A guy I work with also had the AFE intake and reported the same exact problem. At take off the AFE will make your car run sluggish and that's pretty much a given for everyone.

Also I'm no engineer but pulling in more air is not necessarily good, especially if your car is not mapped for it. I'm guessing this is why many AFE intake users tend to get the "engine running rich bank 2 (or 1) code.

And if you think about it both the stock and perfromance BMW intakes are CAIs. Both are set to pull incoming cold air and completly sealed from the engine heat. The AFE cai is situated in a position were is has no choice but to pull the hot air in.

Delta0311 · 04-01-2011, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woosolow

ya my car is not green either, so i ordered the intake without active steering...

PRO DRY S is in grey color.... less maintainence

PRO 5R is blue in color.... oiled filter... greater performance

Lol butt dyno's are great...

There is no way you could tell the performance difference between the oiled and non-oiled filter.

CobraMarty · 04-01-2011, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Also I'm no engineer but pulling in more air is not necessarily good, especially if your car is not mapped for it. I'm guessing this is why many AFE intake users tend to get the "engine running rich bank 2 (or 1) code.

If you pull in more air, wouldn't that make it lean and not rich? More hot air? I have the EURO air box and I recently had 'engine running rich bank 2 code' and other codes related to VANOS and dealer replaced Int. and Ex. vanos selenoids. No more code yet. I had the vanos codes twice before the EURO box and the dealer couldn't find the problem.

Delta0311 · 04-01-2011, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CobraMarty

If you pull in more air, wouldn't that make it lean and not rich? More hot air? I have the EURO air box and I recently had 'engine running rich bank 2 code' and other codes related to VANOS and dealer replaced Int. and Ex. vanos selenoids. No more code yet. I had the vanos codes twice before the EURO box and the dealer couldn't find the problem.

Yeah you are right.. Rich is too much fuel and not enough air, lean is too much air not enough fuel. In case of the AFE CAI the typical error code was engine running rich. I had this issue as well as some other AFE CAI users, I stopped getting the code as soon as I went back to my modified stock air box. I'm guessing (and it's only my guess) the fact that the AFE CAI is pulling in too much hot air might have been the cause of the code.

woosolow · 04-01-2011, 08:15 AM

umm okay interesting debate... anyone has DIY anything to cover the afe intake to avoid suckin up the hot air to the engine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delta0311

Yeah you are right.. Rich is too much fuel and not enough air, lean is too much air not enough fuel. In case of the AFE CAI the typical error code was engine running rich. I had this issue as well as some other AFE CAI users, I stopped getting the code as soon as I went back to my modified stock air box. I'm guessing (and it's only my guess) the fact that the AFE CAI is pulling in too much hot air might have been the cause of the code.

CobraMarty · 04-01-2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woosolow

umm okay interesting debate... anyone has DIY anything to cover the afe intake to avoid suckin up the hot air to the engine?

This is why I use the EURO box vs. AFE.

So the hot air is less dense then cold air and that could cause it to run rich. The Intake Air Temp sensor would sense the hotter air and ? pull fuel out.

Delta0311 · 04-01-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woosolow

umm okay interesting debate... anyone has DIY anything to cover the afe intake to avoid suckin up the hot air to the engine?

Not possible given the design of the intake.. Unless you make your own piping and stick the cone some where near the wheel well.

birdbrain · 04-01-2011, 08:43 AM

Nobody has gained power and everyone has lost power with the AFE. Some just feel it more than others. When this came out on the 5 boards people were raving about it how they felt their cars were quicker and better. It usually was from the aggressive sound that played tricks. But when dyno after dyno started rollin in showing 10-20 hp loss with these things after anything more than 10 minutes of driving, it became real clear what was going on. Major heat soak with an open filter to the engine bay-terrible design.

This is evidenced by the inake in the m3 is now a totally sealed closed design and AFE even says they did this because open intakes have heat soak!

You can get away with this for a turbo since the air being sucked in is already hot (exhaust) so this will not matter but for an NA engine more heat is absolutely parasitic.

hwa786 · 04-01-2011, 09:29 AM

then what should I do for engine sound? I already have a muffler. I need engine sound as well.

woosolow · 04-01-2011, 09:40 AM

haha go for BMW PI and PE then

u will be completely satisfied !!!

Delta0311 · 04-01-2011, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by birdbrain

Nobody has gained power and everyone has lost power with the AFE. Some just feel it more than others. When this came out on the 5 boards people were raving about it how they felt their cars were quicker and better. It usually was from the aggressive sound that played tricks. But when dyno after dyno started rollin in showing 10-20 hp loss with these things after anything more than 10 minutes of driving, it became real clear what was going on. Major heat soak with an open filter to the engine bay-terrible design.

This is evidenced by the inake in the m3 is now a totally sealed closed design and AFE even says they did this because open intakes have heat soak!

You can get away with this for a turbo since the air being sucked in is already hot (exhaust) so this will not matter but for an NA engine more heat is absolutely parasitic.

+10000

Majority of CAI's for the NA engine are actually HAI's (hot air intakes)..

urnuts · 04-01-2011, 04:17 PM

I'll concede that most of you guys know more than I- but my AFE is fairly well sealed from the engine compartment.
The sides, and the top which has sort of a weather-striping that makes a pretty tight seal.
And then the "compartment" is fed cold air from the outside just as the oem airbox is. Am I crazy?
I understand that the air surrounding the filter is not "cold", but I would think that is is somewhat insulated from the engine compartment.
Jeez, I don't know.

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/b...t=IMG_1883.jpg

You can see the filter, so I understand it's not "sealed" like the airbox would be, but it is sealed in the rear, sides, etc. But the area around the filter/intake should be constantly fed with cool air assuming the car is in motion, no?

AlpineSwift · 04-02-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urnuts

I'll concede that most of you guys know more than I- but my AFE is fairly well sealed from the engine compartment.
The sides, and the top which has sort of a weather-striping that makes a pretty tight seal.
And then the "compartment" is fed cold air from the outside just as the oem airbox is. Am I crazy?
I understand that the air surrounding the filter is not "cold", but I would think that is is somewhat insulated from the engine compartment.
Jeez, I don't know.

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/b...t=IMG_1883.jpg

You can see the filter, so I understand it's not "sealed" like the airbox would be, but it is sealed in the rear, sides, etc. But the area around the filter/intake should be constantly fed with cool air assuming the car is in motion, no?

So you actually trust the shed building material to keep heat out of your intake?

Tell ya what, you run your car one on one with a completely stock 328 and see what happens. I bet you'll be surprised.

hwa786 · 04-02-2011, 09:57 AM

whats the safest thing to do for engine sound without loss of power???

Delta0311 · 04-02-2011, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urnuts

I'll concede that most of you guys know more than I- but my AFE is fairly well sealed from the engine compartment.
The sides, and the top which has sort of a weather-striping that makes a pretty tight seal.
And then the "compartment" is fed cold air from the outside just as the oem airbox is. Am I crazy?
I understand that the air surrounding the filter is not "cold", but I would think that is is somewhat insulated from the engine compartment.
Jeez, I don't know.

http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/b...t=IMG_1883.jpg

You can see the filter, so I understand it's not "sealed" like the airbox would be, but it is sealed in the rear, sides, etc. But the area around the filter/intake should be constantly fed with cool air assuming the car is in motion, no?

No you are still pulling in hot air on low speeds.
Only way around it is to:
1. rig the piping and cone so that it sit in the wheel well, a setup my friend has in his Mustang
2. completly enclose the intake, so that it is shilded on all sides

And do this little experiment
1. open up your STOCK box and cut out the carbon filter.. install the box back into your car. drive around for 15min or so and then do a take off

2. drive around for 15min or so (making sure engine is fully warmed up) and then do a take off with you AFE CAI.. this is a great test to do especially on a really warm summer day. Then you will really see what heatsoak is all about.

post your results

03-31-2011, 11:03 PM	#26
spoiler Private 13 Rep 95 Posts Drives: 328i Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: san diego iTrader: (0)	have my AFE for about 8 months and a really like it, i dont have power loss like you said, not expecting for you to believe me. im a happy AFE guy. good for me what ever... bla bla bla
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-31-2011, 11:45 PM	#27
hwa786 Lieutenant 59 Rep 508 Posts Drives: 08 BMW 328xi Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Metro Detroit iTrader: (0)	alright guys, im soo damn confused lol __________________ 2008 BMW 328xi Sedan - Montego Blue Metallic
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-01-2011, 12:19 AM	#29
AlpineSwift Colonel 77 Rep 2,114 Posts Drives: 2008 335Xi Coupé Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Castle Rock, CO iTrader: (3)	The aFe is really a hit or miss. You either get it right or get screwed. Unfortunately, I've been screwed. __________________ E92 '08 335Xi 6AT - Cobb AP3 Tuned by MAC Autosport, Original Prototype Xi DOCRace 6266 Single Turbo Swap, VRSF CP w/Synapse BOV, VRSF 7" FMIC, BMS Cowl, H&R Coilovers, Renn Motorsport RS-51's, Stoptech Stage 2 Slotted, xHP Stage 3, Earl's Racing Oil Cooler, Turner Boost Gauge, M3 Lip Spoiler. Standing Mile Record Holder for Xi over a mile high: 168.2MPH @ 5512'; The Colorado Mile hosted by The US Mile.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-01-2011, 08:43 AM	#37
birdbrain Banned 8 Rep 67 Posts Drives: bmw Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: AZ iTrader: (0)	Nobody has gained power and everyone has lost power with the AFE. Some just feel it more than others. When this came out on the 5 boards people were raving about it how they felt their cars were quicker and better. It usually was from the aggressive sound that played tricks. But when dyno after dyno started rollin in showing 10-20 hp loss with these things after anything more than 10 minutes of driving, it became real clear what was going on. Major heat soak with an open filter to the engine bay-terrible design. This is evidenced by the inake in the m3 is now a totally sealed closed design and AFE even says they did this because open intakes have heat soak! You can get away with this for a turbo since the air being sucked in is already hot (exhaust) so this will not matter but for an NA engine more heat is absolutely parasitic.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-01-2011, 09:29 AM	#38
hwa786 Lieutenant 59 Rep 508 Posts Drives: 08 BMW 328xi Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Metro Detroit iTrader: (0)	then what should I do for engine sound? I already have a muffler. I need engine sound as well. __________________ 2008 BMW 328xi Sedan - Montego Blue Metallic
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-01-2011, 09:40 AM	#39
woosolow First Lieutenant 62 Rep 357 Posts Drives: BMW F80 (2015 M3) Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Toronto iTrader: (5)	haha go for BMW PI and PE then u will be completely satisfied !!!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-01-2011, 04:17 PM	#41
urnuts First Lieutenant 18 Rep 392 Posts Drives: '06 330i (the now "slow" bmw) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Southern NH iTrader: (0)	Intake I'll concede that most of you guys know more than I- but my AFE is fairly well sealed from the engine compartment. The sides, and the top which has sort of a weather-striping that makes a pretty tight seal. And then the "compartment" is fed cold air from the outside just as the oem airbox is. Am I crazy? I understand that the air surrounding the filter is not "cold", but I would think that is is somewhat insulated from the engine compartment. Jeez, I don't know. http://s206.photobucket.com/albums/b...t=IMG_1883.jpg You can see the filter, so I understand it's not "sealed" like the airbox would be, but it is sealed in the rear, sides, etc. But the area around the filter/intake should be constantly fed with cool air assuming the car is in motion, no?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-02-2011, 09:57 AM	#43
hwa786 Lieutenant 59 Rep 508 Posts Drives: 08 BMW 328xi Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Metro Detroit iTrader: (0)	whats the safest thing to do for engine sound without loss of power??? __________________ 2008 BMW 328xi Sedan - Montego Blue Metallic
	Appreciate 0 Quote