[Otruba_843]

They are not really popular in the US and are replaced by the SUV. I am not really a wagon guy and would take an SUV over an e91 anyday simply because I need a car that can tow 10k pounds.

[Meeni]

An e91 can tow a 4k pounds boat. How do you think they do in Europe?

Now 10k pounds? What the flute are you towing around that weight that much ? An entire family of elephants ??

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by Otruba_843

They are not really popular in the US and are replaced by the SUV. I am not really a wagon guy and would take an SUV over an e91 anyday simply because I need a car that can tow 10k pounds.

None of the euro stuff is rated for 10k, looks like time for an f-series

[Taipei-TT]

I for one feel strongly the f31 looks better than the f30. The slope of the nose flows better with the elongated roof line of the touring. Throw in the panoramic sunroof that is not available on the sedan or coupe and you have a winner! Added bonus with a touring is that I could leave my roof rack for my bike on the car without it looking retarded.

I love that a f31 says practical luxury. It would be a big change from my e92, but as others have said, having the driving dynamics of a car and the hauling space of an SUV is very attractive. The only reason I could see a SUV over touring would be if I had to tow stuff or needed higher clearance for snow/unpaved roads to my cottage. With no such luxury in my life, the touring makes sense.

But.....I'm still waiting to seethe f32 coupe in person before deciding on the touring. Heart vs mind battle!

[Otruba_843]

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

None of the euro stuff is rated for 10k, looks like time for an f-series

more of a tundra guy and love mine

[Otruba_843]

Originally Posted by Meeni

An e91 can tow a 4k pounds boat. How do you think they do in Europe?

Now 10k pounds? What the flute are you towing around that weight that much ? An entire family of elephants ??

26 foot boat. Not exactly a fun task especially when I have to take it through a tunnel or bridge

[Bob Shiftright]

Originally Posted by Meeni

Isn't the F31 supposed to become available for MY 13 ? It's still not on the bmwusa website though. Neither is the F11 that's been available for several monthes in europe now...

I would get a 335d F31 in a blink of an eye. I'm waiting with my money BMW.

Originally Posted by pepsih

As I remember it will be available in USA, in spring 2013 (correct me if im wrong).

We'll be getting the F31 here in the USA -- unfortunately, it will be the automagic 328i 4-banger version only. Definitely no 6-speeds according to the BMW press release.

Spring of 2013 is what I've read.

I have a couple of years left on my E91's extended warranty. BMW's marketing decision about the F31 at least makes shopping for my next car easier.

VW still builds the Jetta wagon and GTI with manuals, Audi's A3 is available with a manual and Porsche still builds the Cayenne with a manual. My Volvo T5 manual wagon was supposedly one of a handful that Volvo sold in the US that model year, and sales fell in the subsequent model years. Even at a couple hundred annual sales of E91 ZSP/ 6MTs, BMW sales eclipse the volume Volvo was selling.

What BMW is doing with the F31 makes sense, some of the "couple hundred" will buy the F31 anyway, others will buy something else by BMW.

A few won't buy another BMW, but manual wagoneers are such a small % of sales BMW won't miss us. I don't think we're missed over at the Volvo HQ.

AFAIK, we won't be getting the F11 here in the US, in any configuration.

[Meeni]

Originally Posted by Otruba_843

26 foot boat. Not exactly a fun task especially when I have to take it through a tunnel or bridge

A boat that big stays in the water for the entire season usually, I'd rather rent a truck for a day twice a year than lug myself at 10mpg for the year. Its more cost effective (not even counting insurance, depreciation, etc). Now if you are retired and move every other weeks, lucky you

[MisterSkiMask]

Originally Posted by Otruba_843

26 foot boat. Not exactly a fun task especially when I have to take it through a tunnel or bridge

10,000lbs is pretty heavy for a 26' boat, what is it?

[PSEE]

...it's those turrets with their 16" guns that add up...

[Grendeltouring]

I absolutely love my '11 E91 M-sport/6MT, got rid of my '10 E90 335 xDrive auto for it. Don't miss the extra power and torque at all, the manual transmission more than makes up for it - it's a much more engaging drive than the auto 335. To me that extra second of 0-60 acceleration wasn't as desirable as the balance of the ZSP suspension and the proper manual box.

The E91 is my sports car, I needed something that would handle well and also accommodate my two kids and golden retriever when needed. I'm no stranger to estates, have had an '04 V70R manual and a '01 Saab 9-5 wagon, currently have a '07 Aero wagon in the garage as well. I'm trying to keep the roof clean, but if needed I have Thule aero bars that can be quickly fitted and a roof box. Looking at new Thule boxes, If the Atlantis 1800 will fit then the entire family and the dog can go on a trip in the E91.

Fitted some 18" OZ Ultraleggeras for the winter with Dunlop Winter Sport 4Ds, was up in the mountains last week and was able to dead-start on inclines in the snow.

[BmerMeUp]

Ok, First: Grendeltouring... The dog in the back - awesome. LOL.

Nobody has mentioned the following perspectives yet: I believe people will buy what they want for the reasons they believe they want it. Some want form, some want function, some feel voting for one is to sacrifice the other. Many others will "think" they want something because someone in a clever marketing department has told them that's what they want. Regardless - if they're happy in the end, then I guess they made the right choice.

I have a theory however that social memory is transferable - we have inherited many of our tastes through our cultural environment. One need only compare European preferences over North American ones to see this idea has merit (and I' m surely not the first to notice it). The "station wagon," which comes from the 1800's "horse drawn wagon" which moved people to and from the rail or police station was for North Americans who couldn't afford their own coach. Conversely, in Europe - Lords and Royalty all traveled by exotic coach, the horse-drawn station wagon, if you will. Perhaps this cultural memory is stronger than we think - Europeans subconsciously relate a wagon to luxurious opulence whereas North Americans see it as a utilitarian tool for those who can't afford both a sedan and a truck.

Myself - I have always loved the sleek and sexy swept-back raked look of the longer, fuller body of the E91 style of vehicle. Furthermore, I find it is the perfect blend of form and function - drives like a sedan, hauls like a small truck. Although I am not immune to marketing, and no doubt "exclusivity" (one of the 7 elements of persuasion) surely peaked my interest as well, as they are much harder to find. Give me a 335d Touring, and I'd call that just about perfect.

My 2 cents.

[Nathane91]

The best car iv ever bought is my e91 msport perfect in everyway!!!!

[Otruba_843]

Originally Posted by Meeni

A boat that big stays in the water for the entire season usually, I'd rather rent a truck for a day twice a year than lug myself at 10mpg for the year. Its more cost effective (not even counting insurance, depreciation, etc). Now if you are retired and move every other weeks, lucky you

I use my truck for a lot of things like towing the boat, jet ski, and picking up christmas trees. The boat stays in the water during the summer at my summer house in New Jersey then pull it out at the end and bring it down to South Carolina for the rest of the year.

Originally Posted by MisterSkiMask

10,000lbs is pretty heavy for a 26' boat, what is it?

Sailfish.

[DUI Elite]

I bet if they put the damn things on the lot they'd sell.

Everytime I go, I see maybe 1 used one on the lot every now and then.

I would've gotten one if it were an option w/o custom ordering.

Same story with the B5 S4 wagons. I LOVED those, but they're so hard to find.

[Das_Stig]

Originally Posted by DUI Elite

I bet if they put the damn things on the lot they'd sell.

Everytime I go, I see maybe 1 used one on the lot every now and then.

they have them at dealers back east, just realized i never see them here :l

this might kinda hit here at least (3series gt for 2014)

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2014...py-photos.html

[DUI Elite]

Originally Posted by Das_Stig

they have them at dealers back east, just realized i never see them here :l

this might kinda hit here at least (3series gt for 2014)

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2014...py-photos.html

Yeahh I want to follow that line and possibly trade for the last model year that they'll offer for it. So all the kinks are worked out and maybe if they introduce another motor.

[Grendeltouring]

Originally Posted by BmerMeUp

Ok, First: Grendeltouring... The dog in the back - awesome. LOL.

Nobody has mentioned the following perspectives yet: I believe people will buy what they want for the reasons they believe they want it. Some want form, some want function, some feel voting for one is to sacrifice the other. Many others will "think" they want something because someone in a clever marketing department has told them that's what they want. Regardless - if they're happy in the end, then I guess they made the right choice.

I have a theory however that social memory is transferable - we have inherited many of our tastes through our cultural environment. One need only compare European preferences over North American ones to see this idea has merit (and I' m surely not the first to notice it). The "station wagon," which comes from the 1800's "horse drawn wagon" which moved people to and from the rail or police station was for North Americans who couldn't afford their own coach. Conversely, in Europe - Lords and Royalty all traveled by exotic coach, the horse-drawn station wagon, if you will. Perhaps this cultural memory is stronger than we think - Europeans subconsciously relate a wagon to luxurious opulence whereas North Americans see it as a utilitarian tool for those who can't afford both a sedan and a truck.

Myself - I have always loved the sleek and sexy swept-back raked look of the longer, fuller body of the E91 style of vehicle. Furthermore, I find it is the perfect blend of form and function - drives like a sedan, hauls like a small truck. Although I am not immune to marketing, and no doubt "exclusivity" (one of the 7 elements of persuasion) surely peaked my interest as well, as they are much harder to find. Give me a 335d Touring, and I'd call that just about perfect.

My 2 cents.

Thanks for the props on the dog, took this pic last week near Mt. Rainier, brought the dog up there to romp about in the snow. He occasionally rides in the back seat, but when he's wet or dirty he rides in coach .

I agree on the cultural sentiments, also agree that we all have different reasons for being drawn to certain products. I just love the E90/91/92 3 series, love the youthful exuberance. In the E91 M-sport, I can benefit from all of that exuberance while still carting my family and dog about, for me the utility of the E91 is what drew me to it. I love the fact that I'm essentially driving a ZSP/manual 3 series that happens to have lots of space in the back.

If I could be convinced that this car is big enough to be the "big" family car, I'd consider getting an M3 as well - but I think this is fast and fun enough for me at the moment.

[Digtlartst]

Originally Posted by DUI Elite

I bet if they put the damn things on the lot they'd sell.

If they'd ever advertise the wagon ONCE, maybe they'd sell some.

Might be cool to see an ad with hot music... interior shot of a spirited driver ... closeup on hand on a 6MT ... dolly shot closeup of front end with scenery sliding by .. wide shot looking forward of the driver/dash/windshield from back seat ... closeup of spinning wheels ... closeup of feet/clutch/accelerator and sound of motor ...view upward through the panorama sunroof ... then spinning wheels slowing to a smart stop ... feet getting out of driver's door and walking to the back ... foot motions under rear bumper ... wide shot of whole wagon from side with rear hatch opening ... driver lifting groceries/skis or other load from hatch ... straight rear shot of hatch slamming shut ... sparkly 3/4 dolly shot revolving around entire wagon ... "The Ultimate Hauling Experience"

Might be even cooler ad in the snow with x-drive 6MT and a christmas tree on the roof.

[chong0]

Anyone been able to pick one up as a MT without special ordering?? Feel like the dealers never have one around, let alone one in MT

[Grendeltouring]

Originally Posted by chong0

Anyone been able to pick one up as a MT without special ordering?? Feel like the dealers never have one around, let alone one in MT

Happened upon mine a few months ago used with 9k on it. Did a national search on cars.com and found one '11 E91 with a manual, it was an xDrive. I feel quite lucky to have found mine at my local dealer, bought it right after the test drive.

Sad that the new F31's won't be available in a manual over here. Saw an amazing number of manual 320d E91's in England this past spring, quite a few F11's too with the 2 litre diesel and a manual. I'd love a 335d touring with a manual if one were available here - though I'd imagine most Americans would rather have syphilis than consider a small estate with a proper manual box.

[Meeni]

The GT line looks stupid and is not half as convenient as a proper Wagon. I so hope they are not planing to pull the same stupid thing as the 5GT that replaced the honorably selling e60 wagon.