[OpenFlash]

Sigh... Every village has one.

[Ryan@Motorwerks]

^^^Glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. It was cool watching it be developed, but it seems like some of the members were just asking for shiv to take more of their money. I doubt the price of the setup changed because of their comments, but the posts are annoying anyways.

[335Mat]

Since I was quoting somebody else in my post, thats two right there.

And a few more in previous posts.

[PresaMat]

Originally Posted by 335Mat

+1.

My thoughts exactly since starting to read these threads. But you can’t really blame Shiv for asking a $3000 range for his product.

Blame the lame members of this thread.

The way that they “negotiate” price is backward retarded.

The goal of a seller is to sell for as high a price he can get.

The goal of a buyer is to buy for as low a price as he can get.

Before Shiv even mention $$$, came the first poster to announce, “you can get a lot of money from these BMW owners’. Then the others join the choir, singing how much they want to pay… “Oh, $3000 is NOTHING..”

Even before Mr. Shiv posted any price I started to see how the price is climbing up. I could guess what he would probably ask. Only that he surprised me a little by being a little higher then expected. Oh well… with these kind of customer willingness to pay a lot, what would you expect? The pressure was to up the price.

And then when he comes out with a ball park price, the ‘customers’ say, “oh, that’s all??? You can charge me more.”

There was also a shift in the direction of posting hp. At some point when the Xede was half done he put the exhaust in. Stating that he didn’t want to wait, but “it will be interesting to see what is the hp now without the pipes. Somehow that never happened. It is obvious he does not want to post graph of Xede without pipes.

I just hope that in time, when the Xede will be for sale by itself only, it will not be “detune” a little to create a nice gap between that, and the more costly Xede+pipe setup.

Also, as the direction in the beginning was to create a system that can be easily concealed from the dealer for warranty concerns. It is now in favor of the more pricy setup.

Don’t get me wrong. Nothing wrong with what Mr. Shiv is doing. He is a business man that wants to see his bottom line as healthy as possible. I don’t expect him to do charity work. But the “market” (people on this thread) is pushing in the absurdly wrong direction.

I started following this thread feeling exited, ready to buy, then shocked by stupid suggestions about how much he should/could charge the “rich BMW owners”, then annoyed, then disgusted. I am now pretty much decided not to buy it. I will wait for the other tuners to go crazy all over the 335 and come up with their stuff. Let the competition begin. Waiting for Dinan looks very good now especially when I consider their top notch quality and the warranty that come with it.

And before anybody jumps to any conclusions, I will say it myself first: I am sure Mr. Shiv is a top notch tuner. I am also sure he is a top notch businessman.

Cheers.

No offence dude but a LOT of us would rather pay a premium for a GOOD product with good support. Yes there will be compitition and such but if we want to be first we will pay the premium. I think people with a 50K complaining about a few $$ difference in price for the first product on the market is such BS. The price/performance is very competitive to most other products out there for high end cars (have you taken a look at some of the porsche/MB/etc mods?). Also considering this isnt a normal reflash. This is a separate product. Yah people may have a ECU flash that you pay $600 for but all you are getting is the flash on your own hardware. This you are paying for the FLASH and the complete hardware setup (XEDE box, solinoid, wiring, switch, etc). So say you want your own backup ECU that is another $600 from the factory - $600 for ECU flash + $600 for factory ECU (if I was going this route I would save my original and have the new one flashed) = $1200 plus you gotta change em out ship em out, cant run multiple maps on the fly, cant update maps unless you send it in, etc. So $1200 for the less efficient ECU setup vs the $1300 XEDE. Now we have the exhaust. $1700 for an exhaust setup? That is a VERY typical price.

If you got an issue dont buy it and go buy from Dinan. From what I have seen the price/performance of Dinan is horrible - you will pay $3K+ and get 20HP... not worth it in my opinion.

While I would love to pay $100 and get a 100HP increase it isnt going to happen... so yes Shiv is a buisness man BUT in the world everyone needs to make their cut (profit). As long as their cut is fair then Im not complaining and from what I have seen so far from Shiv his cut is more then fair.

Mat

[gtr335i]

why do my questions never get answered

[335Mat]

Originally Posted by PresaMat

No offence dude but a LOT of us would rather pay a premium for a GOOD product with good support. Yes there will be compitition and such but if we want to be first we will pay the premium. I think people with a 50K complaining about a few $$ difference in price for the first product on the market is such BS. The price/performance is very competitive to most other products out there for high end cars (have you taken a look at some of the porsche/MB/etc mods?). Also considering this isnt a normal reflash. This is a separate product. Yah people may have a ECU flash that you pay $600 for but all you are getting is the flash on your own hardware. This you are paying for the FLASH and the complete hardware setup (XEDE box, solinoid, wiring, switch, etc). So say you want your own backup ECU that is another $600 from the factory - $600 for ECU flash + $600 for factory ECU (if I was going this route I would save my original and have the new one flashed) = $1200 plus you gotta change em out ship em out, cant run multiple maps on the fly, cant update maps unless you send it in, etc. So $1200 for the less efficient ECU setup vs the $1300 XEDE. Now we have the exhaust. $1700 for an exhaust setup? That is a VERY typical price.

If you got an issue dont buy it and go buy from Dinan. From what I have seen the price/performance of Dinan is horrible - you will pay $3K+ and get 20HP... not worth it in my opinion.

While I would love to pay $100 and get a 100HP increase it isnt going to happen... so yes Shiv is a buisness man BUT in the world everyone needs to make their cut (profit). As long as their cut is fair then Im not complaining and from what I have seen so far from Shiv his cut is more then fair.

Mat

Mat,

Well said, and I respect your view. However there are few things I obviously see from a different angle. Yes, if you want to be the first and pay more for being first. I am not that way most of the time. A few months ago Panasonic came out with the new plasmas and the 50” was over $3000. It came down gradually and I got it this week for $2200. I don’t think Shiv’s product will go down the same way. It’s pretty much what it is.

Quote: “I think people with a 50K complaining about a few $$...”

Many enthusiasts don’t put down the $50K cash to by a car. They put down the $650/mo to drive their dream car. But that has nothing to do with the issue. I just wanted to make the point that a lot of BMW owners are not that rich, you know.

I understand the Xede vs. Flash (hardware vs. software) price difference. I was talking about the “package” vs. Xede.

I had a whole stage 1 Dinan suspension installed on my E39. $2100 installed. I know its comparing apples to yogurt, but surly there is more hardware there than a cut back? I don’t know exhaust pricing and configurations. I was never in the market for one. But from what I read here, the $1700 is “a little spendy” to quote just one of the other “every village has one”s.

Anyway, as I said in the beginning, I respect your point of view.

[Bravo1]

It's kind of funny that the "you should charge BMW owners more" comment came from an STI / E46 330 owner who just happened to get a Dinan flash.... it was also meant to be taken as a joke by the way. That same person met Shiv this last weekend in Houston... why? Because he wanted to see exactly what an Xede could do and see how Shiv worked on the custom dyno tunes.

Naturally as a consumer I would like the price to be lower, but at this point there is no real competition that I know of. Considering the extra pipe that is involved with the 335 exhaust, Shiv appears to be pricing his exhaust at about twice that of the Signature Cat Back setup for the EVO. I would personally like it lower, but I can see the reasoning behind his pricing.

Oh by the way... Nice seeing you this past weekend Shiv. I think everyone was quite happy with their gains even though the dyno was reading way lower than in the past. On the way back to Louisiana... Cajun Power shot a nice blue meth fireball at about 140 mph.... its funny how the fireball changes color with the maps

[trurace]

Mr. Shiv,

I am not trying to put down your products, but why is it so expensive?
What material is the exhaust made out of?

Why is the reflash unit $1300?
Just as a quick comparison. Cobb tunning has a I agree with what your saying, cobb tuning, a tuner for Subaru, has a product called ACCESSport that is very very much like XEDE, but the accessport is only $645.

Like I said berfore I am not complaining. I am just asking questions

[russ_777]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Sigh... Every village has one.

[PresaMat]

Originally Posted by 335Mat

Mat,

Well said, and I respect your view. However there are few things I obviously see from a different angle. Yes, if you want to be the first and pay more for being first. I am not that way most of the time. A few months ago Panasonic came out with the new plasmas and the 50” was over $3000. It came down gradually and I got it this week for $2200. I don’t think Shiv’s product will go down the same way. It’s pretty much what it is.

Quote: “I think people with a 50K complaining about a few $$...”

Many enthusiasts don’t put down the $50K cash to by a car. They put down the $650/mo to drive their dream car. But that has nothing to do with the issue. I just wanted to make the point that a lot of BMW owners are not that rich, you know.

I understand the Xede vs. Flash (hardware vs. software) price difference. I was talking about the “package” vs. Xede.

I had a whole stage 1 Dinan suspension installed on my E39. $2100 installed. I know its comparing apples to yogurt, but surly there is more hardware there than a cut back? I don’t know exhaust pricing and configurations. I was never in the market for one. But from what I read here, the $1700 is “a little spendy” to quote just one of the other “every village has one”s.

Anyway, as I said in the beginning, I respect your point of view.

I agree everyone has different views. And I do not want to disrespect any others views.

To some $1700 might be a little high... but we are talking a few $$ max. Look at the Dinan exhaust for the 325/330 e90 its $1600. And that is from a large company with the mass production capabilities. Smaller companies (like Vishnu, other companies I have used for my other high performance cars - 600+HP 69 Boss 429, 67 Shelby GT500, 87 Saleen, etc etc) charge more becuase of smaller volume and higher research costs. I personally prefer smaller companies that I can get in touch with the actual developers, they usually are much faster/more efficiant in making needed changes. Look at how long it took Dinan to release just exhaust for the e90. The 335i has been out only a few months and Shiv already has XEDE and exhaust almost ready to start shipping.

Other companies will come out with their own setups for the 335i. This is a good thing it will push everyone to do their best. But right now I have the NEW mod bug. Im buying a first year model and buying mods for it. Its an addiction but I love it.

Originally Posted by Trurance

Mr. Shiv,

I am not trying to put down your products, but why is it so expensive?
What material is the exhaust made out of?

Why is the reflash unit $1300?
Just as a quick comparison. Cobb tunning has a I agree with what your saying, cobb tuning, a tuner for Subaru, has a product called ACCESSport that is very very much like XEDE, but the accessport is only $645.

Like I said berfore I am not complaining. I am just asking questions

From what I can tell the ACCESSport is just an ECU reflasher NOT a piggyback... very different device. Also it is discontiuned... that has to say something right there.

Originally Posted by Bravo1

It's kind of funny that the "you should charge BMW owners more" comment came from an STI / E46 330 owner who just happened to get a Dinan flash.... it was also meant to be taken as a joke by the way. That same person met Shiv this last weekend in Houston... why? Because he wanted to see exactly what an Xede could do and see how Shiv worked on the custom dyno tunes.

Naturally as a consumer I would like the price to be lower, but at this point there is no real competition that I know of. Considering the extra pipe that is involved with the 335 exhaust, Shiv appears to be pricing his exhaust at about twice that of the Signature Cat Back setup for the EVO. I would personally like it lower, but I can see the reasoning behind his pricing.

Oh by the way... Nice seeing you this past weekend Shiv. I think everyone was quite happy with their gains even though the dyno was reading way lower than in the past. On the way back to Louisiana... Cajun Power shot a nice blue meth fireball at about 140 mph.... its funny how the fireball changes color with the maps

Damn!!! Im sorry I missed out coming to the Dyno Day... Unforunately life pops up and I couldnt make it. I hope yall had a great time. Can't wait for the next one... er should I say the First one? For 335i's at least. Maybe its a good thing I didnt make it... I would make the wait for the car and mod just that much harder.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Bravo1

Naturally as a consumer I would like the price to be lower, but at this point there is no real competition that I know of. Considering the extra pipe that is involved with the 335 exhaust, Shiv appears to be pricing his exhaust at about twice that of the Signature Cat Back setup for the EVO. I would personally like it lower, but I can see the reasoning behind his pricing.

Hey man,
Nice meeting you too. Regarding projected exhaust pricing, the 335i cat-back exhaust isn't really a traditional cat-back since it goes all the way up to the engine bay. It's more analogous to two (2) full Evo turbo-back running side-by-side. FWIW, our full Signature series turbo-back for the Evo costs $1450 (http://www.vishnutuning.com/evo_sign...llexhaust.htm).
Hope that clarifies things...

Shiv

[Kindryck]

Originally Posted by trurace

Mr. Shiv,

I am not trying to put down your products, but why is it so expensive?
What material is the exhaust made out of?

Why is the reflash unit $1300?
Just as a quick comparison. Cobb tunning has a I agree with what your saying, cobb tuning, a tuner for Subaru, has a product called ACCESSport that is very very much like XEDE, but the accessport is only $645.

Like I said berfore I am not complaining. I am just asking questions

They have said it about 20 times now... It is not a flash/reflash...

It is a small form factor computer that sits next to the ECU of the car. It's total plug and play. You pay for the computer AND the software (that they have spent hours on, $$$$) that is on it.

The beauty of it is...

You can have more than one map on it at a time, AND you can switch to whichever map you want at he flip of a switch.

And even more beautiful...

If they come out with a better map.... YOU CAN UPLOAD IT!!

NO FLASHING!! NO REFLASHING!!

You guys are saying the Xede should cost around the price of a Flash ($600) and the exhaust should be around other catback prices ($1200). So, overall the most we should be paying is $1800....

I'd love that...

Everyone on this board would love that...

Shiv has said the price for his equipment would be under $3000. So, about $1200 difference...

For that $1200 you are getting a small form factor computer with the ability to map, remap, store different maps at the same time AND switch to those maps on the fly at will, proprietry software that allows you to have these almost freakish gains with the BMW service deptartment none the wiser when you take your car in for service. You are also getting a HIGH quality exhaust that improves your performance.

If you don't want to spend the $1200 you feel is not necessary, then don't. But don't complain when the folks that do, have all that power and funcitonality you wish you had. By all means wait for other tuners to catch up if they can and compare products. Maybe, Vishnu brings down their prices, maybe they don't. Then you still have to decide if you want this type of mod, or if another one would be better.

As always, in a free market you decide where to spend your money.

K

[flush01]

$3k ? you are out of your mind, damn

but then again, he'll be first one, so milking it as much as possible is a must before competition steps in

[PresaMat]

Shiv,
With the XEDE is the engine speed limiter bypassed? I know that the car is setup to not pass 155MPH with the XEDE is this changed?

Damn all this new computerized computer stuff. I do IT for a living but I am used to my cars being mechanical. The fastest they would go is as good as the hardware used... no computer limiters.

[trurace]

Originally Posted by Kindryck

They have said it about 20 times now... It is not a flash/reflash...

It is a small form factor computer that sits next to the ECU of the car. It's total plug and play. You pay for the computer AND the software (that they have spent hours on, $$$$) that is on it.

The beauty of it is...

You can have more than one map on it at a time, AND you can switch to whichever map you want at he flip of a switch.

And even more beautiful...

If they come out with a better map.... YOU CAN UPLOAD IT!!

NO FLASHING!! NO REFLASHING!!

You guys are saying the Xede should cost around the price of a Flash ($600) and the exhaust should be around other catback prices ($1200). So, overall the most we should be paying is $1800....

I'd love that...

Everyone on this board would love that...

Shiv has said the price for his equipment would be under $3000. So, about $1200 difference...

For that $1200 you are getting a small form factor computer with the ability to map, remap, store different maps at the same time AND switch to those maps on the fly at will, proprietry software that allows you to have these almost freakish gains with the BMW service deptartment none the wiser when you take your car in for service. You are also getting a HIGH quality exhaust that improves your performance.

If you don't want to spend the $1200 you feel is not necessary, then don't. But don't complain when the folks that do, have all that power and funcitonality you wish you had. By all means wait for other tuners to catch up if they can and compare products. Maybe, Vishu brings down their prices, maybe they don't. Then you still have to decide if you want this type of mod, or if another one would be better.

As always, in a free market you decide where to spend your money.

K

K

Thank you, I am well aware of what the product is and does. My comparison was COBB TUNNING's product ACCESSport. It also is a little box that plugs into the car, "that has the ability to map, remap, store different maps at the same time AND switch to those maps on the fly at will". That is why I said it was very very similar to XEDE.

A high quality exhaust. There is a shop in Miami that specializes in tunning BMW's that can probably build me a "high quality" exhaust for cheaper. That is why I asked what the exhaust is made out of. What makes this exhaust different? Why is it $1700 I would like to know EVERYTHING about the product before I buy it.

And I am not complaining LOL. I said I was just asking question

Did you even read my post?

[Kit523]

so if i only get the XEDE computer or wutever without the exhaust u got there, i am only getting 10whp? or more? i am getting confuse here

[PresaMat]

Originally Posted by trurace

Thank you, I am well aware of what the product is and does. My comparison was COBB TUNNING's product ACCESSport. It also is a little box that plugs into the car, "that has the ability to map, remap, store different maps at the same time AND switch to those maps on the fly at will". That is why I said it was very very similar to XEDE.

A high quality exhaust. There is a shop in Miami that specializes in tunning BMW's that can probably build me a "high quality" exhaust for cheaper. That is why I asked what the exhaust is made out of. What makes this exhaust different? Why is it $1700 I would like to know EVERYTHING about the product before I buy it.

And I am not complaining LOL. I said I was just asking question

Did you even read my post?

No offence... but if you look at the ACCESSport specs its not that similar - it actually reflashes the ECU instead of piggy backing... big difference there. If something goes wrong you can pull a piggy back and everything goes back to stock. If something goes wrong with the ACCESSport there is a chance of a fried ECU.

Mat

[trurace]

I didn't read that your product was a piggyback. I'll re-read the thread maybe I missed something. Thanks for anwsering ONE of my questions Mr. Shiv

I don't think that ACCESSport was discontinued. Cobb is actually in the process of redesigning it for a new version of it..... from what I know

[edgarj]

Shiv-

Any chance of you doing a dyno-day on the 335i in Portland when you come up next? And thanks for all the awesome work you've done with this car. Mine arrives in 6 weeks and I'd have your mods installed before delivery if only... Thanks again, and keep us posted.

BTW/ I can't believe the gripes here (albeit from just a few) about this magnitude of gain from an engine that's been out for just months for a $2.5-3K piggyback/exhaust!! In order to get this type of gain from my S54 M I would have waited years from launch and paid through the nose, not to mention the natuer of the mods in regard to warranty preservation. I'm psyched about this product.

[Kindryck]

Originally Posted by trurace

Thank you, I am well aware of what the product is and does. My comparison was COBB TUNNING's product ACCESSport. It also is a little box that plugs into the car, "that has the ability to map, remap, store different maps at the same time AND switch to those maps on the fly at will". That is why I said it was very very similar to XEDE.

A high quality exhaust. There is a shop in Miami that specializes in tunning BMW's that can probably build me a "high quality" exhaust for cheaper. That is why I asked what the exhaust is made out of. What makes this exhaust different? Why is it $1700 I would like to know EVERYTHING about the product before I buy it.

And I am not complaining LOL. I said I was just asking question

Did you even read my post?

I read it. Did you read mine? All the questions you asked have been answered in this thread, read them. The ACCESSport you are comparing is not comparable. It is a reflasher that reflashes ECU, yes it can store maps and such but it directly reflashes the ECU of the car, which is a big NO NO if you want BMW to honor their warranty. As soon as they see the reflash on the ECU they can void your warranty if they wish. The Xede is a piggy back that intercepts the cars inputs and outputs and "tricks" the ECU into doing what you want it do with out ever really touching the ECU. So it never shows up on the ECU and BMW is never in the know.

Do the research first.

K

[new2the3]

Originally Posted by flush01

$3k ? you are out of your mind, damn

but then again, he'll be first one, so milking it as much as possible is a must before competition steps in

[PresaMat]

Originally Posted by Kindryck

I read it. Did you read mine? All the questions you asked have been answered in this thread, read them. The ACCESSport you are comparing is not comparable. It is a reflasher that reflashes ECU, yes it can store maps and such but it directly reflashes the ECU of the car, which is a big NO NO if you want BMW to honor their warranty. As soon as they see the reflash on the ECU they can void your warranty if they wish. The Xede is a piggy back that intercepts the cars inputs and outputs and "tricks" the ECU into doing what you want it do with out ever really touching the ECU. So it never shows up on the ECU and BMW is never in the know.

Do the research first.

K

Kindryck - When is your 335i scheduled to be here? Mine should be arriving mid Nov hopefully. We should meetup grab some coffee or something compare cars. We need to get more 335i owners together so we can bug Shiv to come down and do a Dynoday.

Mat