[AndreTheGeek]

Originally Posted by drwtsn32

I agree with the above post.. use LAME.. it's the best encoder. 320kbps CBR should be indistinguishable from source material. That's what I use and I can't tell a difference, and I have pretty discerning ears (although I'm not an audiophile).

You say "indistinguishable". That might apply to some people. I know people that think that satellite radio sounds as good as CD. The satellite TV company I use seems to get away with calling their music channels "CD quality" - I guess most people can't tell the difference. Some people even think that FM sounds good. To each his own, but a 'lossy' compression means there is loss.

No matter what encoder is used, with MP3 files you give up some of the sound so that the file can be compressed.

If you can't hear the difference, that's great, but if you can, then WAV is the way to go.

Personally, I think that WAV files played through the 6FL sound even better than a CD in the car CD player.

MP3 technology is great, but it can't compare to the original. Anyway, this doesn't need to be a debate about which is better. We have a choice, and that is good. I can use WAV because I hear the difference. I will still use MP3 when I need to save space, but hey, I just got 100GB of space. That's plenty of WAV space for my small CD collection (~150 CDs).

[drwtsn32]

Originally Posted by AndreTheGeek

No matter what encoder is used, with MP3 files you give up some of the sound so that the file can be compressed.

You are absolutely right. Hearing is subjective. I know some people who think 128kbps MP3's sound like CDs. Probably the same people that think satellite radio is CD quality. To me they both sound like crap.

My point about using LAME is not because I think it is impossible for anyone to hear the difference between MP3 and lossless audio, but that not all MP3 encoders are created equal. LAME is considered to be the best, so it might be worth giving a shot.

Plus to be really sure your mind isn't playing tricks on you, you'd need a double-blind test.

Originally Posted by AndreTheGeek

Personally, I think that WAV files played through the 6FL sound even better than a CD in the car CD player.

That right there tells me your mind is messing with you. It's the same binary data; it should sound the same unless there is some extra processing done on the WAV file done by the sound system that alters the sound which you are interpreting as an improvement. (This could be loudness or bass or whatever.)

It's too bad the stereo doesn't support lossless compressed formats. WAV sucks because of the lack of tagging and large file size.

But give LAME a shot. Send me the WAV file for the song you're talking about... I'll compress it with LAME, decompress it back to a WAV file, and see if you can hear the difference between the two WAV files.

[AndreTheGeek]

Originally Posted by drwtsn32

That right there tells me your mind is messing with you. It's the same binary data; it should sound the same unless there is some extra processing done on the WAV file done by the sound system that alters the sound which you are interpreting as an improvement. (This could be loudness or bass or whatever.)

That could be my imagination, but the CD player may just not be as good as the software that plays from the 6FL. They're likely two different animals.

I mentioned a Supertramp song earlier: Fool's Overture. There's some nice deep sounds as the bass guitar slides down. The bass is cleaner and deeper with the 6FL/WAV combination over the CD player - no matter what settings I play with, I can't get it to sound quite as good with the CD. I'm not talking a lot of difference, but noticeable. Definitely noticeable when comparing against MP3. If you have that CD, I invite you to test it for yourself.

[triton.]

Anyone try hooking up 2 harddrives?

[drwtsn32]

Originally Posted by AndreTheGeek

If you have that CD, I invite you to test it for yourself.

I definitely would if I had it. I am very interested in tangible audio degradation with using MP3. So far with my CD collection (hard rock, classical, pop, even some opera) I have yet to perceive a difference.

I used to notice a difference back in the earlier days of MP3 when I (unknowingly) was using a lower quality encoder. LAME is amazing though.

[drwtsn32]

Originally Posted by triton.

Anyone try hooking up 2 harddrives?

You can't. This would require a USB hub which is unsupported.

[poldim]

Originally Posted by drwtsn32

You can't. This would require a USB hub which is unsupported.

Lies. You can buy the WD 1 TB Drive which has its own raid controller in it, running two 500GB drives.

[drwtsn32]

Originally Posted by poldim

Lies. You can buy the WD 1 TB Drive which has its own raid controller in it, running two 500GB drives.

Heh, I'd like to see you try that. But technically that doesn't count as two drives .. it behaves as one large drive.

[dinkoh]

Originally Posted by AndreTheGeek

That could be my imagination, but the CD player may just not be as good as the software that plays from the 6FL. They're likely two different animals.

I don't think that makes sense. CD is the source. How can a .wav file be any better? It is possible that the USB/6FL may alter the signal, but its definitely not better. At best, it's the exact same, if not worse.

Perhaps what you 'hear' as better, maybe a volume issue? Sometimes people preceive loudness as "clearer"

Software? What do you mean? The DAC that Logic7 is the same for USB or CD player.

[533ogetnom]

wait a second, am i retarded? i never knew our cars had a usb cable, is this an idrive thing

[533ogetnom]

Originally Posted by dinkoh

I don't think that makes sense. CD is the source. How can a .wav file be any better? It is possible that the USB/6FL may alter the signal, but its definitely not better. At best, it's the exact same, if not worse.

Perhaps what you 'hear' as better, maybe a volume issue? Sometimes people preceive loudness as "clearer"

Software? What do you mean? The DAC that Logic7 is the same for USB or CD player.

i dont know but he would be insane to say an mp3 playing off an hdd would sound better than a cd

[dinkoh]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

wait a second, am i retarded? i never knew our cars had a usb cable, is this an idrive thing

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

i dont know but he would be insane to say an mp3 playing off an hdd would sound better than a cd

USB is an option, called "6FL". Not sure if you were being sarcastic.

Well, theoretically, wav files from HDD and CD should sound the same all things being equal, but definitely not better.

[drwtsn32]

Originally Posted by dinkoh

Well, theoretically, wav files from HDD and CD should sound the same all things being equal, but definitely not better.

Nods. The only thing going on is possible extra processing or different equalization done by files played over USB. This may make it sound "better" than CD.

[533ogetnom]

no i seriously didnt know about the usb thing, is it the ipod adapter or something else?

[AndreTheGeek]

If the CD player had its disk-file decoding and pre-amplification built in to the head unit, and the software that reads files off a USB drive and decodes them is in the USB module (ULF?), then it is entirely possible that one can be doing a better job than the other reading essentially the same kind of data. The ULF thingy wouldn't be using any of the intelligence in the head unit other than to display directory information.

That is, we're likely talking about two separate sources of music sending to the amplifier.

Just as with home CD players, some sound better than others - sampling rates, etc - it would be entirely possible that the ULF does a better job and provides a better quality of source signal to the amplifier.

Of course, this is all theory, and I could be totally out to lunch.

[AndreTheGeek]

Originally Posted by AndreTheGeek

I wonder if this angle adapter would work - i.e. are the pins all wired?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

I received my adapter, and can confirm that it works with hard disks. That should save people a few dollars instead of having to buy that fancy cable.

Andre

[dinkoh]

Originally Posted by AndreTheGeek

I received my adapter, and can confirm that it works with hard disks. That should save people a few dollars instead of having to buy that fancy cable.

Andre

Hey Andre,

I actually tried using that (previously posted as "right angled adaptor"), but it didn't work for me. I could hear a wierd sound coming from the HDD. As soon as I removed it from the cable/HDD, the HDD worked. Odd. Seems as if the 6FL/USB wasn't providing enough power... yet again.

What HDD are you using? I'm using an Iomega.

[gloster]

Originally Posted by 533ogetnom

no i seriously didnt know about the usb thing, is it the ipod adapter or something else?

Yes it is the ipod adapter. The option called the "ipod integration option" by BMW in their marketing literature goes by the reference 6FL internally at BMW. People refer to it as 6FL on the boards to differentiate it from other types of ipod integration such as the option that was first available when the e90 came out.

6FL consists of two parts. In the U.S., they are both included when you order the ipod option. The first part is a USB jack right next to the aux jack in your center console. The second part is a y-cable with a little box. It plugs into your ipod, the usb port, and the aux port.

The USB port can also be used for thumb drives (officially supported by BMW) and portable hard drives (not officially supported and can be dependent on the current draw of the drive). When using a drive, 6FL understands several formats. When using an iPod through the y-cable, 6FL can play anything the ipod can play.

[AndreTheGeek]

Originally Posted by dinkoh

Hey Andre,

I actually tried using that (previously posted as "right angled adaptor"), but it didn't work for me. I could hear a wierd sound coming from the HDD. As soon as I removed it from the cable/HDD, the HDD worked. Odd. Seems as if the 6FL/USB wasn't providing enough power... yet again.

What HDD are you using? I'm using an Iomega.

I haven't tried it yet with the Iomega in the car, but it works just fine on my WD Passport on my PC. I will go try it on the card HD and report back.

[AndreTheGeek]

Originally Posted by AndreTheGeek

I haven't tried it yet with the Iomega in the car, but it works just fine on my WD Passport on my PC. I will go try it on the card HD and report back.

You're right! It doesn't work in the car. It just makes the light on the drive blink on and off, and it makes a ticking noise.

Very strange, because it definitely works on the WD drive on my PC. I have it hooked up right now and it's working perfectly.

It must have some smarts inside it and detects the less power in the car.

Sorry for my erroneous report!

Edit: Just tried the Iomega drive with it and it definitely works on the PC also. It is only the USB port in the car where it fails.

[100mph]

A cheap right angle adapter or any cheaper cables may have higher electrical resistance compared to one of higher quality... and seeing as we know we're just marginally able to power an HDD from 6FL the cable might just make the difference between working and not working

[AndreTheGeek]

Originally Posted by 100mph

A cheap right angle adapter or any cheaper cables may have higher electrical resistance compared to one of higher quality... and seeing as we know we're just marginally able to power an HDD from 6FL the cable might just make the difference between working and not working

That makes some sense to me, but this adapter is a Motorola. I would assume they make good stuff.