[cdb]

i picked up my 335 in Jan but was browsing this forum for a couple of months before as it was full of info.. so saw all the posts around winter driving and the heavy snow..

my first purchase post car was a second set of wheels and winter tyres from mytyres.co.uk

i picked up a second set of MV3 alloys from Mega on the forum - that way Churchill don't get funny about the car being "Modified" - another point to check if your changing as Churchill considered any wheel other than manufacturer standard for the car as Modified even if i went down to a different BMW 17" wheel.... crazy

[dxb335d]

On I-phone in restaurant. Sp sorry if repeating what others
have said
but I have not read it.

Summer tyres, 255 width, RWD with big HP means they are CACK.

But that's obvious why. I didn't even take mine out when we had the bad weather. The twice I did in the month or so of bad weather
I got stuck twice even end
of driveway. I'm fortunate enough to have another vehicle for work so was alright.

Invest in some smaller rims and winter tyres if
it's ab everyday car

[doughboy]

With a manual you control the wheel torque with the clutch, but with a torque convertor auto you restrict the wheel torque with controlled brake release against the creep.

In snow / ice in an auto you wouldn't just let the brake off and wonder why you're wheel spinning at idle would you?

If the footbrake isn't good enough to modulate the rear brake then use the handbrake!!

Although, ultimately and manual gives the better control in these conditions..

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by doughboy

With a manual you control the wheel torque with the clutch, but with a torque convertor auto you restrict the wheel torque with controlled brake release against the creep.

In snow / ice in an auto you wouldn't just let the brake off and wonder why you're wheel spinning at idle would you?

If the footbrake isn't good enough to modulate the rear brake then use the handbrake!!

Although, ultimately and manual gives the better control in these conditions..

I agree, but by definition you need to feed some revs to get the torque converter to actually apply power to the drive train, over and above normal creep.

At low revs and stepping off the newer ZFs are still not locked up, so it does flare the revs slightly ... and with the 335D you are getting a muckle load of torque transmitted when the torque converter takes up the slack. Even when you are just tickling the throttle ... with or without foot brake or hand brake used to modulate.

Either way a combination of summer tyres, ridiculous torque and automatic don't make a useful car in icey conditions. Everybody that has posted is in consensus that the tyres are one of the biggest hindrances.

Last winter I was skelping about in a manual Ford Fusion on normal tyres in conditions that would leave my 335D motionless.

D.

[Steve748]

I tried to get some 17" wheels but in the end had to get some 18" 189 and the only winter tyres I could get were Pirelli runflats on the front and Kumho proper on the back.

It seems the manufacturers only make a limited amount of winter tyres in the summer and when they are gone there is very little to choose from, they don't sell a lot in the UK compared to Europe.

They worked well enough and I didn't get stuck, I loved going up a snow covered hill coming into the town with stuck and abandoned cars over on the left.
I was the only one smiling as I drove by

I drove out of a snow/ice packed car park whilst a guy with his Mercedes just stood and stared at me as I was not getting stuck like he was.

I put them on as soon as the weather turns cold about October and take them off in April.

[chasealex]

I prefer my solution to winter driving:



26 years old, and the money I made pulling luxo-barges out of ditches last winter paid for the new suspension.

It is the antithesis of my 320 though.

[chris330D]

The tyres don't help as others have said but the auto box is worse IMHO. It is nigh impossible to apply the power gently with the auto unlike with a manual where on snow/ice you can gently let the clutch up on idle, the auto will kick in with a thump and that spins the wheels. The added bonus is fishtailing which you won't get on a fwd car!! That said still got mine up our hill where I am when others ahd given up. Snow socks are a cheap and easy option.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by chris330D

.... It is nigh impossible to apply the power gently with the auto unlike with a manual where on snow/ice you can gently let the clutch up on idle, the auto will kick in with a thump and that spins the wheels. ....

I don't follow this "with an auto it is near impossible to apply power/drive gently", the very nature of a torque converter assists the gentle approach. The only thing you can't do is 'rock the car' on the clutch, like you can with a manual.

I even got out of my 330d on one ocassion while in D, (wasn't on the highway) and one rear wheel was just slowly rotating, on idle, as the car stood still in deep slush. So gentle the drive engagement, could touch the throttle, add a just a few rpm and ease the car forward or reverse it.

Don't forget you have a brake pedal or handbrake, so there is no need whatsoever for any uncontrolled wheel spinning as you engage D or R.

HighlandPete

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

I don't follow this "with an auto it is near impossible to apply power/drive gently", the very nature of a torque converter assists the gentle approach. The only thing you can't do is 'rock the car' on the clutch, like you can with a manual.

I even got out of my 330d on one ocassion while in D, (wasn't on the highway) and one rear wheel was just slowly rotating, on idle, as the car stood still in deep slush. So gentle the drive engagement, could touch the throttle, add a just a few rpm and ease the car forward or reverse it.

The auto in the earlier pre-LCI 330D is different from the 335D.

Every time I give my car to my friend who normally drives an automatic 530D he always launches off the line, and smiling comments at the instant grab of the torque converter.

The torque converter has a pre-determined torque input before it engages - it is a binary switch - any amount of driver input can't alter that. It is much sharper with the ZF 6HP26. Certainly you can try to hold the foot on the brake or hand brake but it is a knife edge from spinning its wheels (equipped with tyres that only hinder).

I can only speak of my own experience with a 335D for the last 4 years. And with summer tyres is not my choice for snowy conditions.

My previous cars were auto 4.2 Jags and they weren't ideal either in the snow ... but marginally better than my 335D.

D.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Dave_3

The auto in the earlier pre-LCI 330D is different from the 335D.

Every time I give my car to my friend who normally drives an automatic 530D he always launches off the line, and smiling comments at the instant grab of the torque converter.

The torque converter has a pre-determined torque input before it engages - it is a binary switch - any amount of driver input can't alter that. It is much sharper with the ZF 6HP26. Certainly you can try to hold the foot on the brake or hand brake but it is a knife edge from spinning its wheels (equipped with tyres that only hinder).

I can only speak of my own experience with a 335D for the last 4 years. And with summer tyres is not my choice for snowy conditions.

D.

Interesting... Haven't driven the 335d, but have experience with the LCI 535d and the 335i, neither of those had a feel any different to what I'm used to.

Don't think I'd like that sort of 'bite'.

HighlandPete

[chris330D]

Its pretty much as Dve_3 puts. You can put it in D and yes it will try to crawl but there is a set level of revs you need to apply to get the torque convertor to engage. When it is really deep snow or ice this makes it v.hard to stop the wheels spinning. couple that with 255 section tyres and things are hard. With a manual you can at least slip the clutch and apply the minimum power needed to move off.

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Interesting... Haven't driven the 335d, but have experience with the LCI 535d and the 335i, neither of those had a feel any different to what I'm used to.

Don't think I'd like that sort of 'bite'.

HighlandPete

Don't get me wrong Pete, it isn't that big an issue.

But the ZF box physically dis-engages the torque converter when coming to a halt, unlike the old style that were just like big soft elastic bands.

This did cause some problems in the earlier [software/oil] implementations of the box. I had no end of trouble with this engaging/disengaging when comimng to rest then accelerating in my Jaguar (The Lurch : http://www.thelurch.com/lurching_zf_transmission.htm). As did many X5 and 5 Series drivers. I dug deep on the issue.

THankfully not present in my 335D.

BMW has a TSB (SIB240305) for the BMW E60 (New 5 Series) and E63/64 (New 6 Series) with the same ZF 6HP26 transmission, that defines IDENTICALLY the symptoms as outlined above. Excerpt below - full text see Jaguar TSBs

SITUATION
Customer may complain of the following:
An excessively harsh 2-1 downshift when decelerating to a stop, or

Transmission "bangs" into gear when accelerating from a full or a "rolling" stop
(vehicle did not come to a complete stop).

http://forums.e60.net/index.php?show...3&#entry243083

D.

[Billyray911]

So,ideally,what wheel sizes should we be looking for,for buying a second set of of cold weather wheels/tyres.17's have been mentioned-will this be the ideal and smallest diameter for a 335(touring)?

[briers]

17's are the smallest you can get because of the brakes.

I'm going to price up a set of the basic BMW 17's with 4 winter tyres.

So far i don't know how much i'm looking at or what tyres but i'm going to be searching around at some point. It's probably been done a million times.

[doughboy]

Remember to get the full cold weather benefit you'll want them on from early November to late March.

That's a long time to drive around with a naff set of 17's on your 335d!!

I bought a set of 18"x8J MV3 reps (£300 new for 4) thus keeping 18" but getting rid of the wider rear stagger, the reps actually have a nicer finish than the OE wheels too! This avoided any insurance issues as my insurer wanted +£125 for any wheel change, either down to rusty 17" or up to bling 20s!! (Sainsbury's / Esure)

Then fitted 225/40/18 Y92 Vredestein Wintrac Extremes, £600 for 4, which have re-calibrated my comprehension of what a tyre can do - you really will not believe it.

Do you have a 19" setup? Even if you go for 18" winters you'll save a lot of cost but keep a more factory look.

[Em135eye]

Not all 17s look naff and the advantages are many. Briers - there are always plenty around. Everyone wants wheels the size of those on an earth mover and tyres with a lower profile than a rubber band because they "look good." So loads come up for sale.

Another tricky 335d move - reversing gently up a slippery slope. Hard to do smoothly IMO.

[doughboy]

Sorry mate, I forgot you had reappeared!

17's are great, but when you're used (and have paid handsomely for) to a set of nice 19s being on the car its a dramatice change to say the least.

[Em135eye]

Indeed they do look "odd" in comparison but I'm a bit anti the drive for ever bigger wheels and thinner tyres.

The trend will soon start to reverse as people get sick of trashing expensive huge wheels and tyres - mark my words...

The trend really showed at a tyre fitter the other days - the 19" tyres were next to some truck tyres - they looked the same apart from the profile.

I even had a letter in Evo about it - they have since "agreed" a number of times when testing various cars ;-)

Oddly enough, US BMW owners are much keener on smaller rims - possibly because a lot of their roads are worse than ours - if that's possible?!

[rogerxp]

Originally Posted by 335diesel

I even had a letter in Evo about it - they have since "agreed" a number of times when testing various cars ;-)

Spotted that a few months ago.

[Em135eye]

Originally Posted by rogerxp

Spotted that a few months ago.

He he! My third printed letter to date...

What a geek...

[doughboy]

Originally Posted by 335diesel

I even had a letter in Evo about it - they have since "agreed" a number of times when testing various cars ;-)

LOL - I remember reading that letter, after about 3 lines I knew it was you just from the words used.

Actually seeing your name at the bottom really made me laugh...

[Em135eye]

Originally Posted by doughboy

LOL - I remember reading that letter, after about 3 lines I knew it was you just from the words used.

Actually seeing your name at the bottom really made me laugh...

Well in that case, it was worth writing it then