[SiKkBaSs]

Originally Posted by NFS

The point I'm making is that the player who was sent off did not instigate the tackle. He had the ball already, taps it a moment before hand and is running with it.

The Arsenal player tackled him.

Very true, but letter of the law says if he tackles (which he did as it was a 50/50 challenge) and doesn't touch the ball it's a foul. He didn't touch the ball and broke the guys leg. Therefore a red card. Not malicious but strictly speaking it is a red card. Don't think he would of wanted to play on had he got a yellow tbh.

[Mud]

Shawcross, the angel who broke Jeffer's ankle in a bad tackle and also almost broke Adebayor's leg in a tackle which left the striker out for a month.

[Mike in Hampshire]

Originally Posted by SiKkBaSs

Not malicious but strictly speaking it is a red card.

Disagree SikkBass. If Ramsey had got up and walked away it wouldn't even have been a yellow card, it was just an accident and that happens in football.
Which is more than Mr Wenger was prepared to admit.
Awful for Ramsey, but an occupational hazard.
Wenger needs to accept that these things happen , and that the world is not out to "get" Arsenal.

Mike.

[NFS]

Originally Posted by SiKkBaSs

Very true, but letter of the law says if he tackles (which he did as it was a 50/50 challenge) and doesn't touch the ball it's a foul. He didn't touch the ball and broke the guys leg. Therefore a red card. Not malicious but strictly speaking it is a red card. Don't think he would of wanted to play on had he got a yellow tbh.

I think the booking was entirely because of the severity of the injury.

It really does look to me as if it was the Arsenal players fault. Not sure the other guy could do anything about it. Basically he ran straight into him.

You can look at it as a 50:50 challenge, but that's only because he let the ball get a couple of feet in front of him.

[SiKkBaSs]

Originally Posted by Mike in Hampshire

Disagree SikkBass. If Ramsey had got up and walked away it wouldn't even have been a yellow card, it was just an accident and that happens in football.

Yeh but the point is he did get Ramsey and he got none of the ball in this 50/50 challenge. Yes this was an accident of course but looking at it, the ref has no alternative but to send him off. Unlucky for him, but more unlucky for Ramsey.

I'm not out there to say the world is against Arsenal. But Wenger being the spokesperson for Arsenal has to come up with something to give his players some protection. It's his job. For him to sit back and say oh well another player down because of an acccident for the third time in four years would be frowned upon I reckon by Arsenal FC. I'm sure Arsene knows it was an accident but he's got to take some sort of action to inadvertly protect his players.

Originally Posted by NFS

I think the booking was entirely because of the severity of the injury.

It really does look to me as if it was the Arsenal players fault. Not sure the other guy could do anything about it. Basically he ran straight into him.

You can look at it as a 50:50 challenge, but that's only because he let the ball get a couple of feet in front of him.

Yes most of what you've said is true. It was no one's fault just a 50/50 challenge. Blame it on the wind, quality of the shiet pitch at Stoke and the weight of the football also.

[Mud]

Originally Posted by Mike in Hampshire

Disagree SikkBass. If Ramsey had got up and walked away it wouldn't even have been a yellow card, it was just an accident and that happens in football.
Which is more than Mr Wenger was prepared to admit.
Awful for Ramsey, but an occupational hazard.
Wenger needs to accept that these things happen , and that the world is not out to "get" Arsenal.

Mike.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... how many players have broken their legs in the Premiership in the last 4 years in tackles on the pitch? The only non Arsenal players I can think of are Modric, Fagan and Ashton.

6ish players from hundreds in four years and you believe its an occupational hazard? I would define occupational hazard as a job in which there is serious risk of illness or death. That is not so in football.

The latest stats I saw say that Arsenal are the second most fouled team in the Premiership, behind Hull, and you have to go down to 8th before you get to another "big four" team in Chelsea. Man U are not even in the top ten.

That seems to suggest to me that teams know they need to well lets call it bully Arsenal off the pitch to try and win. Now does that mentality mean there is more chance of an Arsenal player being done serious damage then other players?

As I posted before Shawcross has previous, he is not innocent. He broke Jeffer's ankle in a bad tackle and last season almost broke Adebayor's leg in a bad tackle which left the guy out for a month injured.

[MEGA]

Seconded on Mud's post 100%.

The arseblogger says it best. Read the last 2 days from him if you have a spare 10:

http://www.arseblog.com

[Mike in Hampshire]

Originally Posted by Mud

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... how many players have broken their legs in the Premiership in the last 4 years in tackles on the pitch? The only non Arsenal players I can think of are Modric, Fagan and Ashton.

6ish players from hundreds in four years and you believe its an occupational hazard? I would define occupational hazard as a job in which there is serious risk of illness or death. That is not so in football.

The latest stats I saw say that Arsenal are the second most fouled team in the Premiership, behind Hull, and you have to go down to 8th before you get to another "big four" team in Chelsea. Man U are not even in the top ten.

That seems to suggest to me that teams know they need to well lets call it bully Arsenal off the pitch to try and win. Now does that mentality mean there is more chance of an Arsenal player being done serious damage then other players?

As I posted before Shawcross has previous, he is not innocent. He broke Jeffer's ankle in a bad tackle and last season almost broke Adebayor's leg in a bad tackle which left the guy out for a month injured.

Mud you raise some fair points.
My reply:
1) you can't just look at broken legs - a player might for example rupture a ligament or sustain a head injury....Petr Cech for example.
2) occupational hazards are injuries resulting from your job, in my view. Anyway I'd say that broken bones are prety flipping hazardous! Don't really follow your point here, sorry. Ask Dean Ashton or Linvoy Primus or Eddie Howe whose careers were all ended prematurely by injury. Again, you can't just look at broken bones (they aren't usually career threatening in fact).
3) Do the Gooners get more physical stick than, say, Chelski? Yeah probably but no-one, Shawcross included, intends to do damage. You cannot just say "lets allow Fabregas to play pretty passes" so you're gonna get more fouls. Same as, say, Barcelona would. Arsene.......its a fact of life, deal with it.
4) You're just plain wrong about Shawcross. Yes he goes in hard, but he isn't malicious. And how about Gallas - that tackle against Bolton's Mark Davis recently was disgraceful. Plus Gallas is a loony. And French. So there.

That said, I love the Gooner style - I just wish Mr Wenger would stop all this "they're out to get us" rubbish.

Mike.

[MEGA]

Originally Posted by Mike in Hampshire

Mud you raise some fair points.
My reply:
1) you can't just look at broken legs - a player might for example rupture a ligament or sustain a head injury....Petr Cech for example.
2) occupational hazards are injuries resulting from your job, in my view. Anyway I'd say that broken bones are prety flipping hazardous! Don't really follow your point here, sorry. Ask Dean Ashton or Linvoy Primus or Eddie Howe whose careers were all ended prematurely by injury. Again, you can't just look at broken bones (they aren't usually career threatening in fact).
3) Do the Gooners get more physical stick than, say, Chelski? Yeah probably but no-one, Shawcross included, intends to do damage. You cannot just say "lets allow Fabregas to play pretty passes" so you're gonna get more fouls. Same as, say, Barcelona would. Arsene.......its a fact of life, deal with it.
4) You're just plain wrong about Shawcross. Yes he goes in hard, but he isn't malicious. And how about Gallas - that tackle against Bolton's Mark Davis recently was disgraceful. Plus Gallas is a loony. And French. So there.

That said, I love the Gooner style - I just wish Mr Wenger would stop all this "they're out to get us" rubbish.

Mike.

Apologies in advance..


I cannot believe how deluded the media is.

The media in this country is a disgrace .

i have now read so many times since the assault (it may not have been intended to break bones but it did) that Shawcross is ‘ a player of good character’ with no other previous misdemeanors.
This in itself is a blatant lie, he broke Francis Jeffers ankle in a reckless challenge in 2007, in fact Stokes assistant manager at the time said ‘There's no way that was a malicious challenge, Ryan isn't that sort of player.’
Funnily enough that seems kind of familiar to the quotes said after the assault on Saturday.

Cast you mind back as well to last seasons game when Adebayor was assaulted off the pitch by Shawcross and was out for a month with ligament injuries, lucky he's not that sort of player then.

Why the media have not brought this up I do not know but what I do know is that many people are unaware of what a thug Shawcross is and just because he hadn't been sent off before Saturday says more about the lack of quality of refereeing than anything about his good character which obviously is severely lacking.

Maybe he was a bit unfortunate the poor lad with all 3 tackles but it is a bit worrying to see someone so young involved in 3 career threatening injuries and 1 assault off the pitch.I will not even mention what he got up to whilst on loan to Royal Antwerp but again it wasn't good.
I think it is the state of the game that the victim is seen as Shawcross and not Ramsey and I am physically sickened by this. Shawcross never had a chance of getting the ball but he did have a chance to pull out of the challenge which he didn't ... hoping to make sure that Ramsey knew he was there.

The only reason he was crying was for himself. No one else. And the worse thing is that now people with no analytical brain in this fucking country read what the media dribbles out, pass it off as their own opinion - and then tell the gooners we are being paranoid.

I mean FOR FUCK SAKE. There was a week long witchhunt over Eduardo for tripping over someones leg "dramatically". A la 'divegate'. But then when the very next week Rooney does the same thing, everyone calls the defender stupid for giving rooney the opportunity to dive.

The sun / mail, places like talkshite radio. Andy cunthound grey. They all need to fuck off and get their heads out of eachothers assholes. The only reason Arsenal are being portrayed in this way is the French manager, and lack of British first team players.

Whether or not Shawcross means to break Ramsey's leg is irrelivent. The fact that you can come on here, re-quote the media drivvel and start telling me Arsenal are paranoid is ridiculous.

Our ONLY problem as a football club is the lack of english players. Hence granny shaggers, adulterers and thugs get respect and love by the press - and our hard working group of lads get torrents of abuse. And people buy that bile? Jesus christ.

Put "feel sorry for Ryan Shawcross" into google. 600 results. Put "feel sorry for aaron ramsey" into google. 10 results. One player might never play football again. Another has given his 3rd player a career-threatening injury in just 4 years as a professional.

How fucking outrageous is that.

[335DPOWER]

I for one am sick of the way teams bully arsenal.
The last three players in the prem to brake their leg have all played, and have been playing for arsenal at the time.

now im no rocket scientist but that is some coincidence isn't it
no it is just the way teams(not, all) play against us and arsene wenger has every right to moan about it.
Especially when it is one of his young rising stars which it always seems to be

All imo off course and yes I do love the gunners

[335DPOWER]

but mega mr grey lurves arsenal

I love it when i sit down to watch a bit of arsenal and hear his seedy little voice

[MEGA]

Hah I sort of went off on one before, but I stand by what I said

Just unfair to aim it at anyone.

I'm looking forward to the Friday press conference and the reactions to it tomorrow / Sat.

I'm sure Arsene will give the press some more stuff to bile out in their drivvel papers on Sat.